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Author Topic: QV Rendering
Gerry
First Class Passenger
Member # 168

posted 10-04-2006 10:32 AM      Profile for Gerry     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You have to be aware though that the architects work to a brief given to them by their principals. A good designer/architect will give the principal what they want. There are some styles that I can pick up and identify which designer was used (and I don't mean just Dingemans for HAL or Farcus for Carnival) but a Tillberg or Designteam or Theresa Andersen can design in any style that the principal asks for.

I can also tell which shipyard built a ship by its way of building and type of fire doors or lighting fittings etc.

I expect the brief for QV is much more in line with QM2's ambiance. Theresa's group is more than capable of providing this. That's why I'm keen to see it.


Posts: 315 | From: Miami, Florida, (originally from UK) | Registered: Jun 99  |  IP: Logged
Gerry
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Member # 168

posted 10-04-2006 10:38 AM      Profile for Gerry     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You're definitely right about the extra level of difficulty of designing a ship interior.

The architects need to have an intimate knowledge of all of the IMO and SOLAS regulations. They must know all about the fire construction regs which dictate the level of insulation, the direction of escape, stairway width calculations, Escape routes, Dead ends and material usage.

And then don't forget ADA, sound insulation, power and lighting planning, and supervising shipyard teams. All of this in excess of designing for a building ashore.


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Malcolm @ cruisepage
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posted 10-04-2006 10:49 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gerry:
I expect the brief for QV is much more in line with QM2's ambiance. Theresa's group is more than capable of providing this.

Just a personal opinion: I've only seen a couple of Princess interiors, but I though them to be increadably 'bland'. Not even 'understated' as our US freinds say, but 'bland'. Of course that does not make the team incompetent, that style of decor must have been their 'brief'.

Gerry, I assume that the budget that is available for a ships interior design has serious limits on what can and cannot be achieved, and the quality of that work. Now I know that there is always a ‘bottom-line’, but as a layman the QM2 looks like she has 'no expense spared' interiors. I'm thinking of all that plaster work, the bronze 'style' murals etc.

However, I wonder if the QV will be on a much tighter budget, which will make her interiors less lavish? The renditions certainly look very nice, but they always do, don't they.


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Carlos Fernandez
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posted 10-04-2006 10:51 AM      Profile for Carlos Fernandez   Author's Homepage   Email Carlos Fernandez   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You are right Gerry, most ship architects work with only brief specifications given by the line, in cruise lines like Cunard they must follow a style. I understand that Cunard does not have their own architects, so they borrow it from their parent company. That's mainly what happends with design in Carnival Corp.
Posts: 1325 | From: Miami, Florida (Cruise Capital of the World) | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Pascal
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posted 10-04-2006 11:31 AM      Profile for Pascal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It looks like if Farcus is completely free to do what he wants on his Carnival and Costa creations.
And it would be understandable as he has designed Carnival interiors for a very long time and as every ship he designed have been a commercial success.

But as far taste is concerned, Farcus creations are getting worse and worse, especially with Costa.
There are more and more French reviews of the newest Costa ships which complain about the decoration...
However, it's true that those ships are popular. But I don't think it's thanks to their design, it's despite it. BTW, I heard Costa France CEO telling that Costa Serena decors will be "more extravagant than ever". That is promising .

Oops, I completely went off topic !

Back to QV, I must say that the interior renderings are great and really matches QM2 style.
And I don't doubt Princess team will do a great job with QV. Imagine : being forced by the executives to do always the same boring interiors, they must be more than motivated to have a chance once in a while to do imaginative things !

[ 10-04-2006: Message edited by: Pascal ]


Posts: 1371 | From: Aix en Provence | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
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Member # 301

posted 10-04-2006 11:36 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Pascal:
It looks like if Farcus is completely free to do what he wants on his Carnival and Costa creations.

I suspect that he still has a rather tight 'brief'?


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Gerry
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Member # 168

posted 10-04-2006 11:50 AM      Profile for Gerry     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Malcolm,

Its all about the 'Standard' that is stated in the shipbuilding agreement and that becomes part of the specification for the shipyard.

When the shipyard quotes a price for a ship to an owner, it is based on a number of things that the owner specifies. Amongst them will be a standard for technical aspects and a standard for outfitting. For both of these they will declare a reference ship.

Once the ship is being built it is up to the owners team, represented by the architects and engineers to ensure the reference standard is exceeded and it is up to the shipyard team to ensure the refernce standard is not exceeded.

In QM2's case, the reference ship for outfitting standard was the most recent Rotterdam as that was the most expensive outfitted ship available for reference at the time and I was quite happy with this as I knew the cost of the materials used by Fincantieri which we are able to argue into a higher standard for QM2. This is why, in my opinion, a strong owner's presence is vital in the shipyard to ensure the standards continue to get higher, otherwise they decline.

The faux woods, which have been called 'plastic' are not at all. They are mainly veneers of real wood which is acceptable under SOLAS. The high gloss finish which the architects wanted as it protects from scuff marks better, tends to cheapen the look.


Posts: 315 | From: Miami, Florida, (originally from UK) | Registered: Jun 99  |  IP: Logged
Carlos Fernandez
First Class Passenger
Member # 6432

posted 10-04-2006 11:52 AM      Profile for Carlos Fernandez   Author's Homepage   Email Carlos Fernandez   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Farcus has to keep the Cruise line's style in mind when he designs a ship.
Posts: 1325 | From: Miami, Florida (Cruise Capital of the World) | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Gerry
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Member # 168

posted 10-04-2006 11:55 AM      Profile for Gerry     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Carlos,

Cunard did have their own team for QM2. I headed it.

Now that Cunard is in Sta Clarita with Princess, that team is now responsible.

HAL has their own team, Carnival has their own team and Princess has their own team.


Posts: 315 | From: Miami, Florida, (originally from UK) | Registered: Jun 99  |  IP: Logged
eroller
First Class Passenger
Member # 1649

posted 10-04-2006 12:06 PM      Profile for eroller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gerry:
You have to be aware though that the architects work to a brief given to them by their principals. A good designer/architect will give the principal what they want.


This I understand although I have not seen any work by Teresa Anderson outside Princess Cruises. I really have no idea what she is capable of when given a different set of parameters to guide her.

I don't believe Joe Farcus is given any "briefs" or parameters when it comes to Carnival Cruise Lines. He may have many years ago but my understanding is that today they pretty much just let him do what he wants. There is a trust between Farcus and Carnival that I imagine is quite unusual in any industry.

Ernie


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Pascal
First Class Passenger
Member # 5510

posted 10-04-2006 12:10 PM      Profile for Pascal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by eroller:


I don't believe Joe Farcus is given any "briefs" or parameters when it comes to Carnival Cruise Lines. He may have many years ago but my understanding is that today they pretty much just let him do what he wants. There is a trust between Farcus and Carnival that I imagine is quite unusual in any industry.

Ernie


That's my feeling too, Ernie.


Posts: 1371 | From: Aix en Provence | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
OceanVoyager
First Class Passenger
Member # 5585

posted 10-04-2006 01:13 PM      Profile for OceanVoyager   Email OceanVoyager   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

Just a personal opinion: I've only seen a couple of Princess interiors, but I though them to be increadably 'bland'.


Oh dear, perhaps I'm boring in thinking they are quite tasteful, as if for European tastes!!

Andrew


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Carlos Fernandez
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posted 10-04-2006 01:42 PM      Profile for Carlos Fernandez   Author's Homepage   Email Carlos Fernandez   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Gerry, you must have experience and may be able to answer this question. Why are cruise ships looking the same, with Queen Victoria looking similar to HAL's vista class and Arcadia, isn't it boring. I find QM2 to be so impressing because there's only one, it is unique. I would too like to design ships someday and I believe that when the ship grows in size and capacity the line chooses to make fewer, for example "Genesis", 1 or 2 will be made. Another thing that I have not figured out, who really designs the ship, the cruise lines' architects or the shipyard, I want to design cruise ships, create it from scratch, who should I work for, cruise line (in my case RCCL) or the shipyard, is architecture the right thing to study?
Posts: 1325 | From: Miami, Florida (Cruise Capital of the World) | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 10-04-2006 03:16 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by OceanVoyager:
Oh dear, perhaps I'm boring in thinking they are quite tasteful, as if for European tastes!!

Andrew, there is a fine line between tasteful (understated) and boring decor. It's all very subjective and I was just giving my personal opinion.

One UK newspaper called the QM2 interiors the tackiest ever designed. They obviously don't out much!


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Pascal
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Member # 5510

posted 10-04-2006 03:32 PM      Profile for Pascal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From what I've heard, many consider Princess interiors as boring not because of the quality of the design in itself, but because it's continualy repeated on every ships whith very little changes.
Posts: 1371 | From: Aix en Provence | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Onno
First Class Passenger
Member # 3071

posted 10-04-2006 05:14 PM      Profile for Onno   Author's Homepage   Email Onno   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Perhaps it’s interesting to see what a Princess design team can come up with for a Cunard ship. Different passengers different brand different look. It think it will be a fun project for them to walk a different path and see what they will come up with. For all we know this new venture could mean that the Princess design team will approach the next Princess ship with a totally new mind.

Onno


Posts: 3583 | From: the Netherlands (Berenbotje ging uit varen...) | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
joe at travelpage
Administrator
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posted 10-04-2006 05:48 PM      Profile for joe at travelpage   Author's Homepage   Email joe at travelpage   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Pascal:
From what I've heard, many consider Princess interiors as boring not because of the quality of the design in itself, but because it's continualy repeated on every ships whith very little changes.

Keep in mind, most passengers could care less about whether one ship from the same cruise line is different form another. Many passengers don't even remember the name of the ship.

From their perspective, the fact that the ships are similar is a big plus. They don't have to worry about the differences between vessels and just have to find one that is available when they want to cruise.

If you want variety, try a different cruise line.

Joe at TravelPage.com


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Malcolm @ cruisepage
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Member # 301

posted 10-04-2006 06:27 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by joe at travelpage:
Keep in mind, most passengers could care less about whether one ship from the same cruise line is different form another.

In fact cruise lines want their ships to be similar to each other, to re-inforce their 'brand'. They want each vessel in the fleet to feel familair. Most people are essentially creatures of habit.


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CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 10-04-2006 07:31 PM      Profile for CGT        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gerry: CGT, I think youre a little mixed up. The Commodore club on QM2 was designed by Tillberg's Sweden. The new QV is under the Princess in house team. Unless you are talking about a rendering of QV's Commodore Club which I haven't seen.
Yes, I am talking about a rendering of the QV Commodore Club. I am surprised you haven't seen it, it is freely available, and it comes from the CUNARD website.

[ 10-04-2006: Message edited by: CGT ]


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desirod7
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posted 10-04-2006 08:48 PM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would love to see the QV divided into 3rds with the forward part of the ship in:

Mauretania Edwardian by Robert McNeece of Rship fame

Mid Ships

Caronia Art Deco by SMC Tillberg

Aft

QE2 Mod by Pierluigi Cerri

That would make her a unique ship.


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Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 10-04-2006 08:53 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
...and she even could be a beautiful ship if one drops the divison in three parts and the first two 'style' options.
Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Onno
First Class Passenger
Member # 3071

posted 10-05-2006 04:40 AM      Profile for Onno   Author's Homepage   Email Onno   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Indeed David and it would make her a trough retro/nostalgia ship showing honest history instead of a created liner theme. And a true testimony of Cunard History (Cunard heritage trail all over the ship)

I acutely envisioned my Vista style QV as a ship divided in three segments (only from exterior view point)

Onno

[ 10-05-2006: Message edited by: Onno ]


Posts: 3583 | From: the Netherlands (Berenbotje ging uit varen...) | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
oslo dutch
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posted 10-05-2006 05:27 AM      Profile for oslo dutch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My opinion is probably very different here...

Somehow I feel that interiorwise Cunard is being "Disneyfied" like they did with Holland America and Costa
Why can't they go for something stylish modern instead of this fake retro or tacky Farcus all the time?
There is nothing Italian about Costa anymore. Pity because italian interior design can be stunning

Having been on the Maasdam I was appaled by these so called "Dutch touches" As a Dutchman it felt all very Vegas to me and had absolutely nothing to do with the Netherlands.


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Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 10-05-2006 06:18 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CGT:
Yes, I am talking about a rendering of the QV Commodore Club. I am surprised you haven't seen it, it is freely available, and it comes from the CUNARD website.

I've not seen it either. In fact I can't find it at all.

Got a link, please?


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Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 10-05-2006 07:35 AM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by oslo dutch:
My opinion is probably very different here...

Somehow I feel that interiorwise Cunard is being "Disneyfied" like they did with Holland America and Costa [...]


I also find it horrible. This is right the opposite of what I like.


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged

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