Welcome to Cruise Talk the Internet's most popular discussion forum dedicated to cruising. Stop by Cruise Talk anytime to post a message or find out what your fellow passengers and industry insiders are saying about a particular ship, cruise line or destination.
>>> Reader Reviews >>> CruisePage.com Photo Gallery >>> Join Our Cruise Club.
Latest News...She's the next in a fine line for Cunard, and today (April 19), Queen Anne officially joined the luxury cruise line's iconic fleet during a historic handover ceremony in Italy. Cunard took ownership of their stunning 3,000-guest ship during a traditional handover ceremony at the Fincantieri Marghera shipyard in Venice – where master shipbuilders have been constructing the...
Latest News...Princess Cruises and ship builder Fincantieri today announced the mutual decision to postpone the delivery of the next Sphere Class ship, Star Princess. Following a comprehensive review of the remaining construction milestones, both parties have elected to adjust the ship's delivery date from July 29, 2025 to September 26, 2025, which will result in the cancellation of the nine...
Latest News...Seabourn announced this week that the Wunambal Gaambera Traditional Owners as godparents of Seabourn Pursuit, the line's newest ultra-luxury, purpose-built expedition ship. >Seabourn is the first cruise line to appoint Traditional Owners as godparents of a ship. The naming of Wunambal Gaambera Traditional Owners as godparents of Seabourn Pursuit serves as a symbolic gesture...
Hapag-Lloyd Kreuzfahrten (HLKF) has just announced that it has signed a 12-year charter agreement for a newbuild to be delivered by STX France in 2013. The 526-passenger vessel is to be named "Europa 2" and is scheduled to be positioned in a "modern and casual" 5-star segment (not 5-star-plus as "Europa").
Additionally, has announced that it will charter the "Insignia" from Oceania Cruises for at least two years from April, 2012. The ship will be renamed "Columbus 2" and is to be positioned in the premium segment.
Best,
Raoul
quote:Originally posted by r.fiebig:Hello everybody,Hapag-Lloyd Kreuzfahrten (HLKF) has just announced that it has signed a 12-year charter agreement for a newbuild to be delivered by STX France in 2013. The 526-passenger vessel is to be named "Europa 2" and is scheduled to be positioned in a "modern and casual" 5-star segment (not 5-star-plus as "Europa").Additionally, has announced that it will charter the "Insignia" from Oceania Cruises for at least two years from April, 2012. The ship will be renamed "Columbus 2" and is to be positioned in the premium segment.Best,Raoul
Very interesting news, especially the piece about INSIGNIA. I really thought Oceania was in a position of desperately needing capacity, even having to turn away "guests" in many situations. I guess even Oceania is not immune to this economy, and a two year charter is a sure thing.
So now it looks like we will have almost as many operators of the original 8 R-class ships, as ships themselves! It would be interesting to sail on all five cruise lines and see how the experience really differs on these nearly identical ships.
OceaniaAzamaraP&OPrincessHapag-Lloyd
Ernie
[ 01-10-2011: Message edited by: eroller ]
quote:Originally posted by Thad:Horrible names "Europa 2 and Columbus 2". Why could they not mine their history and find some better names. [....]
Exaclty (though some of the names you mentioned - Vaterland, Bismark, Tirpitz or Imperator - are totally out of question).
Hapag also seem to have woken up to the growth of the German cruise market. Even though the new ship seem to be rather small and exclusive too.
quote:Originally posted by avalon1025:how can insignia be marketed in the luxury segment with those tiny cabins?
She may have tiny bathrooms but the cabins are not small.
Tony
As much as I dislike those R-ships - she is a step-up from Columbus (which I do not like either). Mind you, not all Hapag Lloyd ships are in the same category. Whereas Europa and Hanseatic are certainly 'five star' Columbus is only intended to be a 'three star' ship.
With the 28 437 grt Europa being built in 1999 and the 14,903 grt C.Columbus being built in 1997 they might be of interest to Voyages of Discovery.
quote:Originally posted by Neil - Ex P. & O. S. N. Company.:Wonder if they will be selling off two of their present ships when they get the new ships.[....]
I doubt that. They want to expand - especially in the luxury segment. Columbus of course has the problem of not having too many balconies but I guess they are 'happy' with Europa as she is - at least for now.
the current "C. Columbus" charter ends in 2013. She is not owned by HLKF but chartered from Conti Reederei. It remains to be seen whether HLKF intends to agree into a new charter.
By coincidence, I had the opportunity to visit both "C. Columbus" and "Insignia" within a couple of weeks last summer: You wouldn't think the former is only a year older.
What puzzles me is that the ship has actually been ordered by someone other than Hapag-Lloyd and will be chartered to Hapag-Lloyd for 12 years. Is this just loophole because of financing or something like that that? I'm just wondering who the "real" owner of the ship is and if the long-term intent is for Hapag-Lloyd to be the owner of the ship?
quote:Originally posted by eroller:Here is a picture of EUROPA 2. She looks lovely, and certainly like a sister to EUROPA. It seems as if [QUOTE]Originally posted by eroller:[qb][...]Hapag Lloyd designed her from the start to be one of their own.
It's of course not surprising that she is a different design giving the age of Europa and the quite different size.
There is not much to see in that picture but some details are actually not so nice. It seems as if there is (again) no proper promenade deck. It's hard t o tell but the 'equivalent' location to where the catwalk called promenade is aboard Europa could be obstructed - there are features that look like balconies. The only promising thing is that there seems to be a 'magrodome' right above these features - so maybe this are not cabins but windshields for a pool area that has been extended to the full width of the ship (which is probably not good for a potential promenade either).
quote:Originally posted by eroller:What puzzles me is that the ship has actually been ordered by someone other than Hapag-Lloyd and will be chartered to Hapag-Lloyd for 12 years. Is this just loophole because of financing or something like that that? I'm just wondering who the "real" owner of the ship is and if the long-term intent is for Hapag-Lloyd to be the owner of the ship?Ernie
Yes, that's motivated by financial reasons - actually it's very common.
[ 01-12-2011: Message edited by: Ernst ]
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:There is not much to see in that picture but some details are actually not so nice.
There is not much to see in that picture but some details are actually not so nice.
From purely an aesthetic point of view, I think the rendering looks very attractive. Nice lines, streamlined, not too "front heavy" which is common with luxury newbuilds, nice proportions.
How that plays out with layout, features, and amenities I don't know.
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:Yes, that's motivated by financial reasons - actually it's very common.
It's really that common? I've never seen it announced this way before, at least not in the cruise industry. For every newbuild I've seen announced, pretty much the buyer and operator are the same organization. I do realize that many lines have entities that are affiliates of the parent company and used for tax purposes, but with Hapag-Lloyd the press release makes the actual buyer seem unrelated to Hapag-Lloyd. One recent exception is Libya's new order, with speculation that MSC Cruises will operate the ship. Even in that case, you know who the actual buyer of the ship is, and it's the operator that is unknown. With EUROPA 2, it's an unknown buyer, or at least the buyer wasn't revealed in the press release. That is a first for me.
quote:Originally posted by eroller: From purely an aesthetic point of view, I think the rendering looks very attractive.[...]
I would not go that far to call it very attractive but yes, it's not too bad looking.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:It's really that common? I've never seen it announced this way before, at least not in the cruise industry. [...]
Beside that there is a shipping industry beside the cruise industry - there are quite a few passenger ships owned by other entities than the operator.
This is the most attractive newbuild rendering I've seen. Any faint praise that can be inferred from this is purely intentional.
Why not just call her BREMEN?
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:Beside that there is a shipping industry beside the cruise industry - there are quite a few passenger ships owned by other entities than the operator.
Yes, but this message board is about passenger ships and that was the context of question. You mentioned it's very common, so I assumed you meant in the cruise industry. Personally I've never seen a new passenger ship announced in this way, where the buyer is unknown and it's an immediate charter. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I've just never seen it announced in such a way.
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:I would not go that far to call it very attractive but yes, it's not too bad looking.
To each his own. I certainly consider the rendering to be very attractive. I like the looks of this vessel, a lot. If the end result is anything like the rendering I will be quite pleased.
quote:Originally posted by Lubber:[...]This would make sense as there isn't too much freeboard, but in heavy seas you can still have passengers stroll the prom deck without getting an exotic sea salt bath.[....]
I guess, if it's that bad one can't allow any open deck space to be used by passengers.
quote:Originally posted by Lubber:Why not just call her BREMEN?
Maybe because they already have a Bremen.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:[....] Personally I've never seen a new passenger ship announced in this way, where the buyer is unknown and it's an immediate charter. [...]
Since we talk about Hapag Lloyd Columbus would come to my mind - just to name one example. I am not sure whether in this case the name of the owner has been announced immediately - at times such companies are solely setup for the purpose to own one vessel.
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:Since we talk about Hapag Lloyd Columbus would come to my mind - just to name one example. I am not sure whether in this case the name of the owner has been announced immediately - at times such companies are solely setup for the purpose to own one vessel.
Thanks. I'm sure there are other examples as well, but it's not something I have seen as common when passenger new builds are announced.
EUROPA 239,500 gt516 passengers76.6 space ratio738 ft length87.6 ft width301 sq ft (average cabin size)
Definitely those figures put the ship in the ultra luxury category.
Compare with the newest Silversea and Seabourn ships.
SEABOURN ODYSSEY32,000 gt450 passengers71.1 space ratio650 ft length84 ft width295 sq ft (average cabin size not including balcony)
SILVER SPIRIT36,000 gt540 passengers66.7 space ratio642 ft length86 ft width312 sq ft (average cabin size not including balcony)
-----------------------------------------
Hapag-Lloyd tells more about its spacious ‘lifestyle-oriented’ Europa 2 Wednesday, 12 January 2011 12:48Hapag-Lloyd Cruises today shared more information about ultra-luxury newbuild Europa 2, which it is chartering for 12 years on delivery by STX France in spring 2013. Referring to the ship as a ‘sister’ to the line’s Europa, Sebastian Ahrens, md of Hapag-Lloyd Cruises, said the new vessel will be positioned as a ‘lifestyle-oriented and informal five-star vessel.’ The 28,437gt Europa, built in Finland in 1999 by the then-Kvaerner Masa Yard, carries 450 passengers and is 198mtr long and 24mtr wide, whereas Europa 2 is larger at 39,500gt with a length of 225mtr and 26.7mtr wide. It will accommodate up to 516 passengers.
The newbuild boasts a whopping passenger space ratio of about 75%.
The ship will have 258 all-balcony suites. Most are 28 sq mtr but there will be four grand penthouses of 90 sq mtr each. Family suites will also complete the accommodation range.
On the food and beverage front there will be seven restaurants, including a sushi bar, two lounges and four bars offering culinary diversity and a multifaceted entertainment programme.
A large wellness and spa zone, as well as a variety of sport- and health-oriented facilities, ‘will do justice to the current trend for active holidays and well-being,’ noted Hapag Lloyd.
Europa 2 will carry around 360 crew.
Equipped with a fleet of Zodiacs, the new ship will offer landings in small harbours and isolated bays off the familiar routes, the German operator said.
Hapag-Lloyd Kreuzfahrten has now announced that in the wake of the "Insignia's" addition to the fleet as "Columbus 2" in April 2012, the current "C. Columbus" is going to leave the fleet in May, 2012.
The ship is owned by Munich-based Conti Reederei. A future operator has not been announced, yet.
quote:Originally posted by r.fiebig:Hello everybody,Hapag-Lloyd Kreuzfahrten has now announced that in the wake of the "Insignia's" addition to the fleet as "Columbus 2" in April 2012, the current "C. Columbus" is going to leave the fleet in May, 2012.The ship is owned by Munich-based Conti Reederei. A future operator has not been announced, yet.Best,Raoul
as I expected.....
Ultimate Bulletin BoardTM 6.1.0.3
More Vacation & Cruise Specials...