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Originally posted by Maasdam:

You are right, but they have made some new design fore the ship, they have completely redesigned and refitted the Lido restaurant (former tourist Café de la Paix) added the honeymoon suite, new interior Skyroom (now wedding chapel) and made a new restaurant layout based on original furniture of the tourist Club Room (previous casino)

Greetings Ben.

[ 12-30-2009: Message edited by: Maasdam ]

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I've now finished 280 pictures and put them online. Some 50 more to go.

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Originally posted by Aad:

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Aad, I'm guessing that this is the now-covered tank of the outdoor swimming pool. It's amazing what poor condition it was in after the lay-up in the Bahamas.

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Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:

Aad, I'm guessing that this is the now-covered tank of the outdoor swimming pool. It's amazing what poor condition it was in after the lay-up in the Bahamas.

Once again, thank you for your amazing photos!

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Bruce,

While in Freeport, the owner's representative and his family used the outdoor swimmingpool on the aft.deck. It was also used while in Gibraltar, so the poor condition you now see, happened after the depart from Gibraltar.

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Originally posted by Tim in 'Lauderdale:
WOW - she looks GREAT!!

Perhaps HAL's headquarters should dispatch their design team from VFD to take a look around and remind them what GOOD, sensible, TASTEFUL decor TRULY is instead of employing their current, tasteless interpretation of what good Dutch design is.

Tim

[ 12-29-2009: Message edited by: Tim in 'Lauderdale ]

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VFD had a very specific and strict design directive.

I have had conversations with ship interior designers and have to be a mother hen since the shipyards will 'break spec' and the result is a disaster. I believe the Farcus designs have such good detailing is because there is someone at the jobsite from Farcus's office.

In the old days the ships of state were a showcase for the best and newest ideas. Design and engineering was king and marketing was to present their ideas in the best light: sell a haircut to a hippie.

Today, marketing targets a style, the design staff is the legs to make it happen, and committees of laymen get their hands on it and the horse turns into a camel.

Holland has a rich history of modern design; the De Stijl movement, Mondrian, De Kooning and several 21 century movers such as Rem Koolhaus, Droog Design and the up and coming Onno Heesbeen.

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Originally posted by desirod7:
Marketing at HAL thinks the passengers are too stupid to understand Dutch modern and give a Vegas version of 19th century and earlier kitsch.

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HAL has definitely been trying to move away from this style (and from VFD) recently. But my understanding is that VFD has had a fair amount of freedom to do what it wanted, though it was asked to "tone down" WESTERDAM and NOORDAM.

I sent you a private message.

Me thinks if HAL wants a younger more hip customer base, ditch the kitsch and let their ships be a showcase of modern Dutch design like Rotterdam V and Nieuw Amsterdam '38.

SS Rotterdam continues the design DNA of NA '38. It would be great if the current *.dam's carry the torch when re-fitted.

Rem Koolhaas

Droog Design

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Originally posted by jetwet1:
Just out of interest, what do you find "kitsch" about the current HAL ships ? I'm not trying to start something, I just found the Westerdam to be a very nice ship, with the exception of the shopping area which really didn't work for me.

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Jetwet, I am sending you a private message on a different subject

The modern HAL ships have a tough act to follow based on their historical ships.

the HAL ships have too much of the cheesy motifs of Rembrandt, Vermeer, Indonesian Dutch colonial, wooden shoe stereotypes absent from the '50s ships.

From NA '38 to Rotterdam V HAL was a showcase of Dutch modern; which is some of the worlds most significant work.

The City of Rotterdam is a Dutch moderne showcase since most of it was bombed in WWII.

Call me an egghead, but HAL is supposed to be an upscale line for the more sophisticated and deliver us a Dutch honky tonk carnival.

They dumbed down the interior design from the standards of their ships from 1938-1959.

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Originally posted by desirod7:

Jetwet, I am sending you a private message on a different subject

The modern HAL ships have a tough act to follow based on their historical ships.

the HAL ships have too much of the cheesy motifs of Rembrandt, Vermeer, Indonesian Dutch colonial, wooden shoe stereotypes absent from the '50s ships.

From NA '38 to Rotterdam V HAL was a showcase of Dutch modern; which is some of the worlds most significant work.

The City of Rotterdam is a Dutch moderne showcase since most of it was bombed in WWII.

Call me an egghead, but HAL is supposed to be an upscale line for the more sophisticated and deliver us a Dutch honky tonk carnival.

They dumbed down the interior design from the standards of their ships from 1938-1959.

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David,

even after the Rotterdam V, the HAL ships continued to be showcases of good design, if not Dutch Moderne.

The Veendam and Volendam of '73 and the N twins of '83-84 all had beautiful, sensible interiors that were a study in how to outifit ships to a timeless standard.

It wasn't until the advent of the S-Class in '92 that HAL went down the wooden-shoe road to Kitschville.

As the old saying in the Dutch bastion of Bergen County NJ goes, "you 'aint much if you 'aint Dutch" - the current ships 'aint Dutch - and they 'aint much!

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Originally posted by NAL:
Interesting to see that the Tropic Bar now has the door open into the Smoking Room. During HAL days, this door was always closed and one could only enter through the Ritz-Carlton.

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I have no idea about what time you are talking, but the Smoking Room as well as the Ritz Carlton were catered by the Tropic Bar. And I am talking about the very early HAL-days (1959-1960). During the two inaugural cruises I had an extra job in the Smoking Room and I often got a drink from the barkeeper in the Tropic Bar. That means I did go directly from the Smoking Room to the Tropic Bar !

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Originally posted by NAL:
Interesting to see that the Tropic Bar now has the door open into the Smoking Room. During HAL days, this door was always closed and one could only enter through the Ritz-Carlton. I always loved the Tropic Bar. It was cozy and plush and full of bright colors with the beautiful wood.

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"Ocean Bar" from Aad's photo album

Are you talking on the bar above? if so, Aad's photo is shown the Ocean Bar and facing to the forward, there was a door leading to the Queen's Lounge(formerly Tourist class Lounge) and you could also enter to the Ocean Bar directly from the foyer where the Lynbaan is located.

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Originally posted by NAL:
I know there was a service bar for the Smoking Room and the Ritz-Carlton....there was never an open door between the Smoking Room and the Tropic Bar.

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The photo below is seen the Tropic Bar

As Willem have posted, the Tropic bar is located between the Smoking room and the Ritz Carlton so There were two doors leading to the smoking room and the Ritz Carlton but, as you seen in the photo, New Glass screen is fitted between the Tropic bar and the Ritz Carlton.

[ 01-11-2010: Message edited by: Ocean Liners ]

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Originally posted by NAL:
Willem....I know there was a service bar for the Smoking Room and the Ritz-Carlton. I believe it was on the passage way between the two rooms on the port side. As far as I know, there was never an open door between the Smoking Room and the Tropic Bar. My first trip on Rotterdam V was in 1965 so I cannot speak for before this time.

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The service bar was used to supply the Tropic Bar. There was a lift. When I had my extra job in the Smoking Room, I had to take care of the snacks and the hot snacks came from the galley down below in the ship and were transported up to the Upper Prom by that lift.
The doors between Smoking Room and Tropic Bar were always open.
On the Upper Prom there were two entrances to the Ritz, one via the Tropic Bar and the other via the corridor where the service bar was.

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Originally posted by NAL:

Ocean Liners....the photo you used here is an entirely different bar. The Tropic Bar was on the Upper Prom. The Ocean Bar was on the Prom, port side.

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I knew These locations as I posted on previous thread, I knew Lynbaan is located on the Promenade deck and the Ritz Carlton/Smoking Room is located on the Upper Promenade deck.

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Originally posted by NAL:

Interesting to see that the Tropic Bar now has the door open into the Smoking Room.

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Were you talking about Pantry on your thread?
I assume you are talking on the Ocean Bar, If not, What photo are you talking and give me a link?

Willem talked about Pantry(aka Service Bar) located in the foyer between the Smoking room and the Ritz Carlton.

The photo of "Tropic Bar" on the Upper Promenade Deck clearly show the Sun Light through the Ritz Cartlon not the Smoking Room. the photo taken from Smoking Room side and facing the Ritz Carlton(not Smoking Room)

[ 01-11-2010: Message edited by: Ocean Liners ]

See this deckplan:

I can see how someone might have missed this door because Smoking Room entrance/exit located on the left behind the big wooden screen at the aft end of the Smoking Room:

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Originally posted by NAL:
Willem and Joe.....perhaps I missed that door during all my cruises. I cannot attribute it to too many drinks in the Tropic Bar, although we did have a couple at this cozy bar. I never noticed anyone using the door to the Smoking Room either. Oh well....c'est la vie!

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NAL, don't feel crazy, I was aboard ROTTERDAM several times between 1982 and 1997 and I always used the aft door of the Tropic Bar as well, never realizing there was a forward connection to the Smoke Room. Now I'm looking at her deck plans from various years throughout the decades, and I can see that door, but it never seemed to be in use whenever I was in that room. So you're not alone!

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Originally posted by Ocean Liners:

[ 01-11-2010: Message edited by: Ocean Liners ]

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The re-decorated Ocean Bar and the intimate Tropic Bar very well on a HAL newbuild IMO.

[ 01-11-2010: Message edited by: lasuvidaboy ]