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» Cruise Talk   » Ocean Liners and Classic Cruise Ships   » Pricing and oil. (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Pricing and oil.
Frosty 4
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Member # 5826

posted 07-06-2006 06:21 PM      Profile for Frosty 4   Email Frosty 4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
With oil reaching record prices I wonder if cruise lines will raise their prices? They probably get a set price for months in advance but eventually it will cost them more.
Just out of curiosity we are now paying $3.19 a gallon for regular gas up to $3.39 for premium here in Illinois(Chicago area).
I know gas costs a lot more around the world but can you tell us what you are paying and how you can cope with the pirates that are making Billions in profits each quarter so far this year. It's getting ridiculous.
Frosty 4

Posts: 2531 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
PamM
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Member # 2127

posted 07-06-2006 06:29 PM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[the only pirates are our govern'mint' over here]... but some cruiselines have added fuel surcharges. Carnival Corp are testing the waters with Costa and I think it's Crystal? that have already added one too for 2007 cruises.

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
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posted 07-06-2006 06:35 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Frosty 4:
Just out of curiosity we are now paying $3.19 a gallon for regular gas up to $3.39 for premium here in Illinois(Chicago area).

It Britain we pay through the nose and have done for decades - it's not new! Cos you've had it cheap for dso long you waste it! You have change your habits. That's why we generally drive small cars - mine's just over a 1 litre engine. I would not be able to aford to fill a 2 Litre car!

Can anyone work out out cost of gas for me in comparison to the USA? Pam? (We do pay a lot of tax on it to).

I fear the fuel surcharges may be in part an excuss to make more profit, just like airlines did in the 70's and 80's.

[ 07-06-2006: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Posts: 19201 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
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Member # 301

posted 07-06-2006 06:46 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pam worked it out last year and said we pay just over $5.

It may have risen a little sine then or not?


Posts: 19201 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Linerrich
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Member # 4864

posted 07-06-2006 06:50 PM      Profile for Linerrich   Email Linerrich   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

Can anyone work out out cost of gas for me in comparison to the USA? Pam? (We do pay a lot of tax on it to).

[ 07-06-2006: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Malcolm, our gas is priced per US gallon, which is nearly 4 litres. Just figure out the cost of litres in sterling, and convert to dollars, to give us an idea of the price difference.

Right now we're paying an average of $0.75 per litre in the US (prices can vary greatly from region to region.) So I think that's only about 39 p per litre, right?

RIch


Posts: 4210 | From: Miami, FL | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
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posted 07-06-2006 06:52 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Look here

It is interesting for me to see that people here in the U.S. are complaing about the fuel prices...

especially if you read articles like this - and there is MUCH MORE room for improvement.

For completeness: 1 US gallon = 3.7854118 liters

mileage:
1 mile per gallon (mpg) = 0.425143706 km per liter
or 235.214584125 liter per 100 km

(I sincerely hope that your car has a better mileage )

[ 07-06-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Linerrich
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posted 07-06-2006 07:16 PM      Profile for Linerrich   Email Linerrich   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ernst:
Look here

It is interesting for me to see that people here in the U.S. are complaing about the fuel prices...

For completeness: 1 US gallon = 3.7854118 liters

[ 07-06-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]


Wow, so based on this website and making the calculations, our friends in the UK are paying nearly $7 per gallon!


Posts: 4210 | From: Miami, FL | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
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Member # 301

posted 07-06-2006 07:20 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Linerrich:

Wow, so based on this website and making the calculations, our friends in the UK are paying nearly $7 per gallon!


Probably. At least it leads to efficent engine design and good mpg.


Posts: 19201 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Pascal
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posted 07-06-2006 08:00 PM      Profile for Pascal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've a little Diesel car, as the majority of people now in France. The price for a liter is about 1,1 €. So in $/gallon it should be something like 5$. For those who still have a stansard fuel car it must be around the 7 $ the gallon , just like in Britain. The advantage of diesel cars is that, not only the fuel is cheaper, but you can make more distance with the same quantity of fuel.
The problems with diesel were that first your car sounded like a mamoth truck, second the performance were not as good as standard fuel engines, third the pollution was more important, fourth it took time to start your engine, and fifth the car were most expensive.
Now all (Yes I said all !) those inconvenients have been corrected (except maybe the original extra cost).
And the reason why Audi wanted absolutely to won Le Mans 24 with a diesel is that they will soon lauch this kind of propulsion on the American market.

Anyway diesel engines have been successfull with ships for a very long time.

NB: I have to mention that I'm not paid by a diesel engine manufacterer !


Posts: 1371 | From: Aix en Provence | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
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posted 07-06-2006 08:10 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I do not really understand why Diesel isn't more popular in the U.S. - especially with all these truck like cars around. I heard it has something to do with a bad diesel car built in the 70ies which ruined the repuation - has anyone more information on that?

This also seems to be the reason why hybrid cars are such a hype here. I am actually not sure whether this makes that much senses in all cases - in the city with stop and go traffic maybe (only maybe, because I am not sure about the impact of the used batteries...) - on the country - probably not. Nevertheless, let's see when the first diesel hybrid is brought on the market.

P.S.: Diesel is quite good - BUT ONLY with a proper filter system. (or equivalent)


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Tim in Fort Lauderdale
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posted 07-06-2006 09:44 PM      Profile for Tim in Fort Lauderdale     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ernst,

yes the reason diesels aren't more popular has a lot to do with the notoriously bad GM diesels of the 80's. They were mechanically unreliable, loud, clunky, not easy to maintain or start and were sorely lacking in the performance department.

That soured most Americans on diesel engines. Recently, Daimler tried to ressurect diesels here in the states and other than in pick-up trucks, it has not caught on.

The reason most Americans complain about high fuel prices is that in the past two years, gasoline has basically doubled in price. Two summers ago I was paying about $1.50 per gallon and now I pay $3.00.

With the (absurd) premium Honda, Toyota and Ford are charging for their hybrid vehicles, gas would have to reach over $5.00 per gallon for most people to be able to justify the cost, and that would need to be amortized over a five year period.

Plus, Americans are just enamored with BIG cars and trucks. The sharp rise on fuel costs has not hurt the sales of SUV's to any great extent. The V8 powered Ford F-150 remains America's best selling vehicle.

The irony of it all, is when our illustrious and infalable leader made his great "we are addicted to oil speech", he arrived in a caravan of about a dozen gas-guzzling Chevy Suburbans and Cadillacs.

Tim


Posts: 1468 | From: Fort Lauderdale, FL | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 07-06-2006 09:53 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the information.

It is of course difficult to adopt when prices for a basic needs - and in some regions of the U.S. having a car is crucial - doubles in a short time.
Nevertheless, it might be that the prices in the U.S. have been too low for a too long time - resulting in a car fleet with a much too high consumption. Europe might be a bit better but this must not be an excuse - also in Europe most cars are overdimensioned.


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
lasuvidaboy
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Member # 4527

posted 07-06-2006 10:27 PM      Profile for lasuvidaboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't think most passenger cars w/diesel engines could be imported into California due to the stronger pollution regulations which vary from state to state. In times past, it was fairly easy to purchase a diesel Mercedes or VW but they are no longer available here (the big engine S/SL Class Mercedes and 7 Series BMWs are still huge sellers here). Diesel fuel is actually more expensive here than most grades of fuel so that also adds to the negative impression. Full size passenger cars have become much smaller here compared to the land yachts which were phased out in the late 1970s. The problem is that while today's passenger cars are getting fairly good mileage (a full size V8 Cadillac gets over 26 miles per gallon on the highway) SUVs are getting the same gas mileage as a 1950s or 60s full size passenger car. As for hybrids such as the Toyota Prius, you are better off buying a Honda Civic or other smaller car. These cars are less expensive and get excellent mileage. In recent studies, it has been reported that you would have to drive a Prius over 300 thousand miles to see any real savings when the higher cost of the vehicle in figured in. In L.A., the Prius is a status symbol for the 'smug' crowd as featured on a recent episode of the TV show 'Southpark'. Now for ships. The City of L.A. which operates the second busiest port in the World is going to begin regulating the pollution created by the hundreds of ships docking here every year. In a few years, ships calling here will have to use lower polluting fuels near shore and use more shore power while docked.
Posts: 7654 | From: Hollywood Hills/L.A. | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
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Member # 5369

posted 07-06-2006 11:00 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Particle filters dramatically improve the exhaust of diesel engines - this is a rather recent development, but in some countries new diesel cars are required to have it.

The hype around the hybrid cars indeed seems to be an exaggerated reaction.

According to South Park I should be pretty safe here in TN.


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Pascal
First Class Passenger
Member # 5510

posted 07-07-2006 02:21 AM      Profile for Pascal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Diesel engines have now become clean. Even big diesel cars don't pollute more than their standard fuel equivalent. There were some comparison between the Prius and some latest diesel cars and it appeared that those lasts were actually more environmentally friendly. Enormous progresses were made recently with particle filters. And as you burn less oil, you pollute less. For example, on average, I burn 42 liters for 800 km (after a conversion about 45 miles/ gallon)
on a mixt utilisation (1/3 highways, 1/3 roads, 1/3 town).

And Diesel engines are more flexible. There are a few guys here who use fries oil (!) as fuel. It works quite well, except maybe a little smell...


Posts: 1371 | From: Aix en Provence | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
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posted 07-07-2006 05:32 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's all about economics and tax. Taxation can easily be used to change peoples habits.

In the UK we pay an annual 'Road Tax'. This is now linked to engine size. The bigger the engine, the lhigher the rate of 'road tax' (within bands). The differential is not that big at present, but it's a start.

The main attraction for me to buy a car with a small engine is simply the cost of 'filling-up'. My car may be only just over 1 Litre, but it has reasonable acceleration, 5 seats and will do 90 mph plus - what more do I want?


Posts: 19201 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Pascal
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Member # 5510

posted 07-07-2006 05:56 AM      Profile for Pascal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's true that having a big engine if you only drive streets and highways doesn't make sense. It's like SUV, what 's the point of having such cars if you never go off road ?
As far I'm concerned I wouldn't mind a more powerfull engine as I often drive in Corsica where there are mostly mountain roads.

Posts: 1371 | From: Aix en Provence | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
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posted 07-07-2006 06:33 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Pascal:
It's like SUV, what 's the point of having such cars if you never go off road ?

The nearest that most of them get to 'off road' is the supermarket car park.

Many people simply buy them as a fashion statement. In many cases they simply have more money (or credit) than they know what to do with. As fuel increases in price they start to make less and less sense.


Posts: 19201 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
timb
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Member # 5901

posted 07-07-2006 10:29 AM      Profile for timb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

The nearest that most of them get to 'off road' is the supermarket car park.

Many people simply buy them as a fashion statement. In many cases they simply have more money (or credit) than they know what to do with. As fuel increases in price they start to make less and less sense.


Speaking as someone who owns a small SUV and a sedan I purchased it becuase it is the modern day equivilent of the station wagon....nothing to do with status or fashion. I do agree there are a vast number of people who do buy them for resons that are a great deal more vein....they always look at me funny when I load a pallet of sod or mulch in the back of mine


Posts: 437 | From: S FL | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frosty 4
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Member # 5826

posted 07-07-2006 10:39 AM      Profile for Frosty 4   Email Frosty 4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
SUVs are the worst thing that has happened here! Gas guzzlers and people who own them drive like madmen . In the winter months more SUVs are seen in the ditch because people think they have 4 wheel drive and they can go anywhere. WRONG!! Top heavy and driving with tires that are not meant to go 80+ MPH. They are not selling too well now because of the fuel cost.

Here's my way of trying to conserve:
Drive the speed limit- good if you don't get blown off the road by all the speeders.

Tire pressures-check them as temperatures can vary the pressures- Ernst maybe able to help on this issue.

ONY BUY ENOUGH GAS THAT YOU THINK YOU NEED!! Don't fill up every time. If more people did this there would be an overstock and prices would come down a bit. The oil companies are making a killing so why feed them more $$.

Fortunately being retired I don't drive the 70 miles to work as I did previously. My wife works(that's how we go on cruises-Ha Ha) but it's a very short drive for her.
We do have 2 cars that have V6s but as I stated we drive at reasonable speeds.

At this point the cruise lines seem to have held the pricing steady.
I just heard that oil is going for $75.51/barrel here.
Can you believe that in Venezuela, they sell gas for 20 cents a gallon- I think the goverment there does this just to p--- us off! Their part of OPEC.
Frosty 4


Posts: 2531 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 07-07-2006 11:37 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by timb:
....they always look at me funny when I load a pallet of sod or mulch in the back of mine

Wow, what supermarket do you use?


Posts: 19201 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
timb
First Class Passenger
Member # 5901

posted 07-07-2006 01:12 PM      Profile for timb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just a home improvement warehouse like Home Depot or Lowes. Do they have the large home improvement stores across the pond or is it still mom and pop hardware stores?
Posts: 437 | From: S FL | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Glencoe
First Class Passenger
Member # 1181

posted 07-07-2006 01:32 PM      Profile for Glencoe   Email Glencoe   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In this part of the world, ie south western Ontario, the current price per US gallon is around $3.80 US, or $1.10 per litre Canadian. Admittedly still a relative bargain compared to Europe, but as was said above more than double what it was 18 months ago.

Further to what was said above I buy garden mulch at a place that sells it in bulk by the cubic metre, and the propietor told me that he had a customer who preferred to pay $50. extra to have stone delivered, rather than take a chance on scratching the back of his truck.

Makes you wonder what the point of having a truck is if you don't actually utilize it for what it was designed for.


Posts: 41 | From: St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 07-07-2006 01:37 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by timb:
Just a home improvement warehouse like Home Depot or Lowes. Do they have the large home improvement stores across the pond or is it still mom and pop hardware stores?

In some parts of Europe there are maybe even more of these stores than in the U.S. - I would generally say that 'things have changed' a lot - 'standard of living' is in some parts of Europe much higher than in the U.S. - all the things found in the U.S. only some years ago are now also available - and in most cases even more refined versions. (...if one does something decades later you inherently get the newer version....)


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
PamM
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Member # 2127

posted 07-07-2006 02:22 PM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sadly there are virtually no real m&p hardware stores left here... not for many years. You will only find a real one in the more remote areas.

As to SUVs they are out of favour here [well this area anyway], gone are the 'must be seen in one' days and only those who have a real need, ie 4 kids etc have them. Consideration to a new vehicle is usually given more to fuel consumption than looks. People haven't mentioned LPG in this thread, of which there are a fair number about now.

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged

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