Wednesday, March 12, 2008

Robin Searle in Miami

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Mainstream cruise lines will increasingly offer a two-tier experience with high-paying customers enjoying separate priviliges to standard passengers, according to the chief executive of Royal Caribbean.

Christening the trend “disegalitarianism”, Adam Goldstein said the days of all passengers mingling in open communal areas once they left their cabins were a thing of the past.

Instead, customers paying “top dollar” would increasingly demand separate and exclusive dining and public spaces.

“Guests who are paying top dollar do not accept that when they step outside their door they are on the same footing as everyone else,” he said.

MSC Cruises chief executive Rick Sasso agreed that an element of exclusivity was demanded by certain guests, while NCL boss Colin Veitch said that the expansion of the line’s Courtyard Suite area on new-builds showed the demand was there.

“There clearly is a market for that product onboard a large ship, with people wishing to enjoy the facilities of a bigger ship but still wanting exclusivity,” he said.

However, Carnival Cruise Lines chief executive Gerry Cahill said his line would try to avoid creating a multi-tier system on its ships.

“I don’t think we are going to go to a “class-ship”,” he said. “But we are breaking the ship into different areas for different kinds of people, so families or those interested in relaxation and spa will be accommodated in separate areas.”

Cahill said that new-build Carnival Splendor would offer 60 cabins in a spa area with some additional facilities and a private elevator.

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Hotels have "club" or concierge and suite floors.

Airlines have business and first class cabins.

Airports have private, members-only lounges.

There is Carnival, and there is Seabourn.

It's not a matter of the "haves and have-nots", it's a matter of the "haves and have-mores".

When I pay more for a car, a hotel room, an airline ticket or a cruise, I expect more amenities and priviliges as a result.

When I fly coach, I make do with waiting in the seats at the gate. When I fly business or first, you better bet that my behind is in that private lounge!

I don't look at it as class distinction or stratification, it's simply a matter of people buying different experiences on the same ship.

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Originally posted by Tim in 'Lauderdale:
I really don't see what the fuss is or why their should be any resentment or uproar with this.

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With the exception of desirod7, I don't think there is.

If the various lines wish to go back to "First" and"tourist" (or whatever they may chose to call it) let them do so. Instead they pussyfoot around offering various niceties and privileges for those who pay more. What is the difference?

There have been many verbal tussles on these pages over the past four-plus years on that very subject. I, for one, approve.

see this thread

class system

It aint just me.

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Originally posted by joe at travelpage:

With the exception of desirod7, I don't think there is.

Joe at TravelPage.com

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Those in conceirge get larger cabin, a butler, spa included, specialty restaurant included, a private party, etc.
The ship is not divided up, one who pays more gets the amenities yet it is not 'in your face'.

I cannot think of any other reason to go from concierge to exclusive part of the ship except for snob appeal.
other opinions

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I suppose a ship holding 2500 of the rich and famous would defeat its
own purpose. How exclusive can you be with 2499 others. Not very elite, is it?
It's no fun being a separate (higher) class if you have no one to
lord it over! What would be the point?
other opinions The truly well off cruise on each
other's private yachts... I do not like the concept of classes on cruiseships.
Also it is a real pain if you are traveling with friends and cannot eat in the same dinning room. On one crossing I had friends in all four "classes" on QE2 mostly due to upgrades...

The truly well off cruise on each
other's private yachts... I do not like the concept of classes on cruiseships. Perhaps it is because I can only afford to book a suite on Carnival... But I really think it is more than that.
Also it is a real pain if you are traveling with friends and cannot eat in the same dinning room. On one crossing I had friends in all four "classes" on QE2 mostly due to upgrades...

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Originally posted by Tim in 'Lauderdale:
I really don't see what the fuss is or why their should be any resentment or uproar with this.

I don't look at it as class distinction or stratification, it's simply a matter of people buying different experiences on the same ship.

Tim

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[ 03-13-2008: Message edited by: desirod7 ]

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Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:
I think Grill Class on QM2 is very different than what is proposed on these newbuilds.

As I have posted before we chose Princess and Queens Grill grades when we sailed on her because of the superior food/service and the larger cabin-thats about it.

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And what would that difference be? Also aboard QM2 and QE2 certain areas of the ship are only accesible for Grill class passengers. (the restaurants are actually part of the ship and other than in the past one can not upgrade - also, there are these admittedly not too large lounges)
Yes, there are always some stupid people who want to show off, but most people booking 'first class' might actually do it for the better service, better accommodations and better amenities - again, what would be the difference to booking Grill class aboard QM2 or QE2?
No doubt that this has to be handled in a tactful and reasonable manner - done badly it can indeed depreciate the experience of non first class passengers - but it can be done properly.

[ 03-13-2008: Message edited by: Ernst ]

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Originally posted by Ernst:

And what would that difference be? Also aboard QM2 and QE2 certain areas of the ship are only accesible for Grill class passengers. (the restaurants are actually part of the ship and other than in the past one can not upgrade - also, there are these admittedly not too large lounges)

[ 03-13-2008: Message edited by: Ernst ]

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The comparison with air lines or ocean liners of the past isn't completely adequate, IMO, as those are (or were) "only" means of transportation, not vacation places in theirselves.

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Originally posted by Pascal:
I can't understand why someone would go on a mass market ship to stay in separated areas, except of course if they want to show off.

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Not necessarily--a growing number of younger people with means are still looking for the very deluxe personal accommodations, but they also want the large ship features and amenities which a small, ultra-deluxe ship does not offer.

Let's consider the "masses" on any ship--if you book yourself in just a standard outside cabin or standard balcony, do you think you are "showing off" to the people who are booked in inside cabins? If you travel during a more expensive Peak season, like summertime or a Holiday week, are you "showing off" to those who wait and cruise during the less expensive off-season? Of course not--people need to realize that there is always someone with more than they have, and always someone with less. Just deal with it and go on with your life.

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Originally posted by Pascal:
I 100 % agree with David, Joe. I can't understand why someone would go on a mass market ship to stay in separated areas, except of course if they want to show off. [...]

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Well, if they stay there they are actually not showing off.
Also, one can be more humble saying that one is on a Carnival cruise - one does not have to tell people that one has booked the suite.

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Originally posted by Pascal:

The comparison with air lines or ocean liners of the past isn't completely adequate, IMO, as those are (or were) "only" means of transportation, not vacation places in theirselves.[...]

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Yes, it is a different situation but it can be done in a decent manner. There are actually ships where this works fairly well - not only the Cunard ships (I am actually not so fond of their system) but all these more luxurious ferries have a class system and it works fine.

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Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:

On QM2 there are the two Grills, a smallish bar/ lounge and an even smaller deck area w/a hot tub. It seems that these newbuilds will have entire decks (or large sections) dedicated to 'first class'.

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Originally posted by Linerrich:

Not necessarily--a growing number of younger people with means are still looking for the very deluxe personal accommodations, but they also want the large ship features and amenities which a small, ultra-deluxe ship does not offer.

Let's consider the "masses" on any ship--if you book yourself in just a standard outside cabin or standard balcony, do you think you are "showing off" to the people who are booked in inside cabins? Rich

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In 15 cruises not one person I met boasted about their prime cabin. A few have bragged about the great deal at the last minute, that is about it. Unless you see someone exiting a cabin door, how would you know where they are staying?

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Originally posted by Linerrich:
people need to realize that there is always someone with more than they have, and always someone with less. Just deal with it and go on with your life.

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Originally posted by desirod7:

Understood, it all comes at a price. Just because you have tons of money to buy whatever toys you want, does not mean you have a trustworthy spouse, responsible children, or real friends.

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.....well, there ARE people who have a 'ton of money' who do have a 'trustworthy spouse, responsible children, or real friends'.

The option of having a pool that is not crowded or poulated by kids or currently in use for the belly flop competition does appeal as does the use of a lounge etc. If you are paying for it why not. Its not as if you stand on a private deck and throw things at those who can't !

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Originally posted by desirod7:
...Ships are a transport for the masses - always were, always will be. 'Exclusive' is just a brochure puffery which impresses Hyacinth Bucket.
The couple below will lap it right up....Woody Allen and Tracey Ullman in Small Time Crooks as overnight billionaires

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Originally posted by desirod7:
...I respectfully disagree. The idea was trashed on LinersList

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Ok, these two comments seem to support my suggestion that most people don't care about these cruise line announcements.

I think most of the folks that you are referring to would, from a statistical perspective, fall into the category of outliers. Most people are not outliers and most people are who the cruise lines are targeting.

I would suggest that less than 1% of cruise passengers even know who or what "Hyacinth Bucket" is. I also suspect that the percentage that watch Woody Allen movies or post on the LL is close to that number.

I think there is very little risk that these exclusionary social experiments that the cruise lines are conducting on board their vessels will jump ship and change the way we live our lives.

Don't patronize me!

I know very well that there are uber-rich people out there with real friends and loyal family. Point is money will not always buy true friends and trustworthy people.

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Originally posted by Ernst:

.....well, there ARE people who have a 'ton of money' who do have a 'trustworthy spouse, responsible children, or real friends'.

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Originally posted by desirod7:
Ernst;

Don't patronize me!

I know very well that there are uber-rich people out there with real friends and loyal family. Point is money will not always buy true friends and trustworthy people.

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One deals with how a ship is configured in, what I still maintain, a "two class configuration." When the ship configures and restricts certain dining areas and spaces to a certain category of passengers, and the tab they have paid, that is one thing.

The other deals with people behavior. How passengers behave when they occupy such spaces. Much of the sharp exchange that seems to be emerging addresses this aspect of the issue.

Now, everyone get out your bat....

What really bothers me is the will of some to have specific public areas for the richest pax on mass market ships. If you're rich and don't want to intermingle with the "mass", go with Silversea or Crystal, or even rent a yacht, but don't book a cruise in a ghettoised area of a RCI ship.