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If you look at some of the suites today - why pay for them if you're getting the same food and service as those that a one board for a sell off price.
It depends upon what you value in a cruise - and I enjoy the dining.
I do agree Celebrity has fine food - and if you get a great location in the restaurant (my favourite is under the staircase on Century - very intimate) it can give you the feel of a Grill experience.
Hats off to Fine Food!
And dining rooms are the main reason.
[This message has been edited by Barryboat (edited 04-12-2001).]
Does it attract more people??? Really hard to tell.
But I personally would rather have a lower-mid-priced accommodation on a fabulous 1200 passenger ship offering brilliant service and food than anything else. I don't care for the little guys (Seabourn)......too small!!
You elitests who want a class system, are you willing to pay $1000 a day for a cruise?When I am on a cruise vacation I do not want to feel as though I settled for less.
Why do I want to be stigmatized as being rich or poor.
A cabin is a place to sleep, shower, and have sex. I want to be out and about the ship. The less I spend on a cabin, leaves me more money for other important things.
Just because people have money to throw around does not mean they have class, or manners.
The class system was the ugly side of the Transatlantic era.
I was recently on the Norway. CLASS OF PASSENGERS AUTOMATICALLY DIVIDES ITSELF BY THE ACTIVITIES they are drawn to.
There is a 4pm tea with classical music, and proper attire is required. The cultural people go to that, and those who are 'lower class' can sing at the competing Kareoke activity.
The Lido buffet with hot dogs, hamburgers, fries, and Pizza attracted middle America.
In the Sports Illustrated cafe, there was a different ethnic buffet each day [eg Indian, Chinese, Caribbean, Japanese, etc]. This attracted the better heeled and cultured passengers on board. It was far less crowded too.
I agree with Malcolm, if one want's a formal dining experience, there can be a formal and informal dining room. Cambodge,my father and grandfather: old world gentleman, would never not wear a jacket and tie in a resaurant. My parents always booked lower grade cabins, so they could afford to bring the kids along. I see no reason why someone in a grade 'Z" cabin cannot buy a table in a formal dining room for extra, and those in a deluxe, can get a discount for causal dining.
[This message has been edited by desirod6 (edited 04-14-2001).]
Having sailed QE2 several times (and going again this summer), I have found that it has a greater diversity of passengers, and, curiously enough, to be less 'class conscious' than any other ship we've been on. I'm sure this is due to both the huge range of cabin categories and the restaurant grading system.
My knowledge of other lines is limited so I have to go by the reviews I have read from other people, read between the lines, and check the 'facts' they give.
Several ships which have more than one main restaurant allocate the passengers to the restaurant by cabin category. While I'm sure that they will claim that they are of the same standard I'm also convinced that they won't stay the same standard for long. If they have one restaurant full of top-grade cabin, suite and penthouse passengers and one full of lower grade, last minute cheap-deal passengers where do they put the good waiters? And which galley do you think the best chefs are in?
Many, if not all, lines give various benefits to their suite passengers that are not available to the others. I read one review recently (I wish I could remember the ship) which mentioned: a private lounge for the suites and penthouses, butler service, priority tendering, priority embarkation and disembarkation, and priority booking for the alternative restaurant. Here's where I read between the lines. If the alternative restaurant is good, and the suite passengers have priority, how does anyone from the lower grades get in there? Or have they just created a private restaurant for their top cabin grades while still being able to claim that it is open for everyone? What's all this if its not a 'class' system? And, in practice, how does it differ from Cunard's system which some people find objectionable?
Exclusive lounges and deck areas? In principle I have no objection but I wouldn't be too happy if they had, for example, the only deck area or lounge with a view over the bow of the ship. Or the only 'quiet' lounge. Or whatever. Does it attract more people? I don't know. Shouldn't the question be, 'Does it attract more people than it deters?' Or even, 'Does it attract enough people paying a hefty premium to outweigh the possibly (probably?) higher number of people, many of whom would have been paying much lower prices?
I hope that this isn't an indication that Cunard are having second thoughts about the setup aboard QM2.
Having worked on QE2 I saw first-hand how the diversity in the "Classes" made a crossing or cruise that much more interesting. I know there are a small percentage of extremely wealthy or important, or famous people like Presidents, kings, queens, monarchs, who would appreciate the exclusivity of crossing or cruising in their own Ultra-Luxury section of the QM2. And for those who are in the lowly "Cruise Section" which is not so lowly, would say, "hey, did you know that the president is on this cruise"? They will perhaps never see the president, but knowing the president is there is interesting enough. I remember when Neil Diamond crossed on QE2, people were talking...."did you hear that Neil Diamond is onboard"? Few people saw him, but he was there. Poor Neil Diamond had to walk the decks of the QE2 in the middle of the night, so he didn't have to engage in conversations with everyone who saw him and wanted to say hello and meet him.
Face it, the reality is that there is a place on an "Ocean Liner" for "Classes". It makes crossing or cruising more interesting and accomodating for people from all walks of life. The wealthy have a taste for some foods that most of us just plain wouldn't enjoy. Those who are not economically blessed, (like myself) often prefer a hotdog, or a McDonald's BigMac to the exquisite duck liver patte. I think people who complain about the "Class" system are simply jealous and don't seem to want to accept that there are others out there who simply have more money than most of us. I'm comfortable with my "Class". I'm secure with my economic level...I'd certainly like to have more money, but I'll just have to work harder.
You don't reserve the upper decks for the rich and the lower decks for the not so rich. I can afford both and I would be turned off by a ship with these rules.
A restaurant serves food for the rich or food for the not so rich. Seldom will you see one serve food for both. Barryboat, don't what you are talking about.
There is really not that much difference from a coach ticket and a first class ticket on an airplane. A couple hundred dollars? So what.Anyone can go First Class.
The extremely wealthy will buy their own yacht and hire their own crew. Or they will book the 30 and 40 night cruises. Money can buy anything. Yes. But whether we are envious or not, it doesn't matter. The majority of the common people will not participate in a cruise where they don't have full access to all decks, all facilities.
quote:Originally posted by Barryboat:Desirod6...and many others who responded here are thinking too much like him.
As in previous posts you oversimplify and catagorize people and ethnic groups.
Do not assume how I think, Democrat or Republican, which makes little sense to the Europeans on this board, class division on a ship says those who pay less are second class people, I would not go to a land based resort where I did not have the full run of the facilities.
I do not feel sorry for Niel Diamond. Greta Garbo and Marylin Monroe, would dress up as maids and enter the ship thru the crew entrance to avoid onlookers. Celebrities today are famous for 15 minutes.
BTW I love duck liver pate, octopus, rabbit, and quail, I hate McDonalds, Benigan's, Friday's, Chili's and their over processed rain-forest beef.
I am not a millionaire.
Harry Truman once said "If you want to live like a Republican, vote for a Democrat"
The Democrats are not responisble for Watergate, $3 trillion deficits, Iranscam,IranContra, the 1990 recession, shutting down the gov't twice, Impeachment, and Florida election rigging.
PS: most millionaires in America make their money with dry cleaning and auto repair type businesses, many do not have a college education.
They would do so well in the Princess Grill of the QE2 fumbling for the salad fork, appetizer fork etc. They will have much in common with Marc Rich, Kirk Kirkorian, Charles Keating, whom they may share a table with.
Many nouveau riche who love the snob appeal of first class are ill mannered, ostentatious about thier money that they have not yet learned to handle.
Some have debt loads that are incredible. many got that way by illegal means.
The old money of Boston, New York, and Phillyare very discrete about it, spend it carefully, drive used Buicks, fly coach, and take lower grade cabins on a cruise ship. This is how they stay rich and keep away gold diggers.
I am not trying to change Barryboat's mind, but I and many who DO NOT think like Barryboat will simply not book a segregated ship.
Consumer soveriegnty wins.
from Emily Post on class divided ships:
'It may be pretty accurately said that the faster and bigger the ship, the less likely one is to speak to strangers. Because the Worldleys, Oldnames, the Eminents never pick up aquaintances on shipboard, it does not follow no fashionable and well born people ever drift into aquaintanceship on board.Many in fact take the voyage as a rest cure and stay in their cabins the whole time. Meals are always served in their drawing rooms and keep to themselves except when they have invited friends of their own over to play bridge."
PSW. Somerset Maughan always travelled 2nd class. First class was too stuffy and 3rd class was too boorish. His short story "The Know-all" is a transatlantic tale.
PSSThe word Snob comes from the latin term Sine Nobila= people not of nobility act like and aspire to and disdain thier equals and those below
[This message has been edited by desirod6 (edited 04-14-2001).]
When I use to work on a cruise ship that went out on day cruises form San Diego to Ensenada, we had 800 passengers a day from many walks of life, but mostly people who save for weeks their $60 per person to take a CRUISE. There are certain people groups who just have different tastes and act in certain ways that are similar to others in their same economic level. For example when our performers would go out to entertain, they would often face a crowd of drunk fools that would even throw food at them....and these were good etertainers.....these people just plain don't know how to act in a classy environment. That's why you wouldn't see anyone from Seabourn or Crystal cruising on that ship. I could go on and on, but I have to go now so maybe more later.
This is one of the best assessments that I have read concerning some passengers on todays cruises.
Unfortunately, a screening process is undemocratic. It would be nice however to think that everybody had a reasonable level of manners and had acceptable levels of hygeine.
quote:Originally posted by topgun:".....these people just plain don't know how to act in a classy environment."This is one of the best assessments that I have read concerning some passengers on todays cruises. Unfortunately, a screening process is undemocratic. It would be nice however to think that everybody had a reasonable level of manners and had acceptable levels of hygeine.Duck don.
Hopefully we're not equating acceptable manners,behaviour & habits with money - it doesn't necessarily follow.
I want to also expand on what I said earlier about the people who didn't know how to act in a classy environment...believe it or not there are people out there who just don't know how to act in a formal, classy, conservative, high-society environment. Getting back to the drunks that saved for weeks and weeks to take a "luxury one day cruise to Mexico" on a "Cruise Ship", and their idea of fun and vacation is to get absolutely drunk as a skunk, my question to some of you who responded emotionally to the concept of separate parts of the ship for "First-Class", Would YOU enjoy your cruise with a boat load of drunks who shout during the shows, throw food at the entertainers, and act inappropriately? What would you say to yourself if you were sitting next to one of these party animal drunks while they puke all over the floor and swear and heckle the MC? Hey, I've been there as an MC trying to keep control of the showroom while people talked loudly during the show. We had really good shows too.
I know that this is an extreme, but I'm trying to get my point across. Are YOU going to say, "No way buddy, I don't think you should be able to enjoy your high-society members-only part of the ship, even though you paid a fortune....I should be able to walk those decks too and eat in those fancy dining rooms too." Now who's being segregated? Who's being put out?
I've traveled the world; India, Africa, Asia, Europe, the Caribbean, all across the States, and I have a healthy respect for people of all economic levels. I don't get upset if someone pays more money to be a part of a "Members-only" club. Heck....if I had the money I'd probable enjoy having a membership and going to the private clubs.
I know how many of the wealthy live, in fact I have many very wealthy friends and even a couple of famous friends. They are people just like you and me, yet if they want to pay for a special membership and enjoy an exclusive service or club, then hey....good for them.
You want a single occupancy room rather than a twin share? You pay for it, and other passengers on the ship don't get access to that cabin.
Some have said they wouldn't go on a ship where they don't have access to all the facilities of the ship. Well, does this mean that a woman would insist on access to the men's toilet, and vice versa? And must the shower facilities in the gym/sauna be open to use by both sexes at all times?
A cruise is a product/service no different than any other product or service that you buy. So long as you know the conditions and limitations of the product that you're purchasing, and the provider delivers the product as specified, what's the big deal if, on the same cruise ship, there are different products with different conditions than the one you've purchased? It's up to you to choose what you wish to purchase.
Actually, I'm very glad that the QE2 has rooms that are grouped into different categories, and that the passenger in the ultra expensive suite pays for a disproportionate amount of the cost, so that I can purchase a cruise at a price that I think represents good value for what I'm getting for the cruise. This doesn't mean that I can't afford a suite; I can, but to myself, I can't justify the cost for the benefit or value of being able to eat in the Grills or have a drink in the lounge reserved for Queen's Grill diners. The Yacht Club disco also states no pax under 16 years old can enter after 10:30 pm. Other than the restaurants, those two lounges, each pax's cabin/suite, and separate sex toilets and showers, all the other common facilities on the QE2 are open to all cruise passengers, regardless of age, sex, race, creed, national origin, religious belief, sexual orientation, or any other discriminatory category. In my view, Cunard has done an excellent job of de-segregating the cruise/ocean crossing experience.
All cabins on cruise ships are closets anyway. The wealthy can afford a larger closet with a little walkout balcony and a chair. Wow! Knock yourself out!
PC, if you think I was talking about the access to both sexes of bathrooms, get a life!
On all cruise ships I've been on, the wealthy must rub elbows with everyone else. Yep. Maybe they can buy their own private show in their closet, I don't know. The only "private" areas are an occasional off-hour private singles party or business meeting in one of the lounges. If it gets to be anymore than this, the cruise line will not survive. This is reality.
The class system is alive and well on cruise ships today, just like society today.
All of the major lines give perks for passengers in higher-priced cabins that have absolutely nothing to do with the room. That's what the so-called class system is all about -- getting more by paying more.
HAL, the most cherished line of the majority of posters on this Board has a separate lounge on the Amsterdam for suite passengers.
Princess offers butler service to certain suite passengers.
NCL offers concierge service to suite passengers.
Carnival offers priority check in and embarkation to suite passengers.
Cunard has the famous (or infamous)"Grills."
Let me say this. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH PROVIDING EXTRA NICETIES TO THOSE WHO PAY TOP DOLLAR FOR A CRUISE. And taking advantage of these perks does not make a person a snob. You get what you pay for, and if you pay extra, you have every right to expect more. Those who so adamently denounce this are, in my opinion, the biggest snobs of all.
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