however, by trying jan 22 - 29 the fare was usd 1,500.

A real business class, competitive with the mainstream industry, looks more like this. That airline flies the same route as Maxjet. The price is commensurate with the product.

Maxjet's offering is substantially better than any premium economy (or, obviously, normal economy) product flying, but it's a bit like the business class of 15-20 years ago. That's one of the reasons why it can be offered so cheaply. This airline is really in the market for the passenger who's prepared to pay premium economy fares, but wants something more for the money than the major carriers deliver.

[ 11-18-2005: Message edited by: Globaliser ]

quote:

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Originally posted by MOORHOUSE:
Thats just amazing, wonder how they manage to get the price so low?

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Or why other airlines charge so much?

I bet they only have one plane?

[ 11-18-2005: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

MAXjet say they have 102 seats, so 1/3 just over, of max capacity, therefore the average price should be 3 x the cheapest cattle elsewhere. That seems to be about right.

But with only one aircraft.. what happens when it has a problem?

I think people will use it, as most are just after more room to spread out, which is what they will be getting, and not necessarily the frills of 'normal' business class, although they do seem to be offering meals on china, with metal cutlery & stemmed glassware.

LON/NYC is not too bad in cattle, one can survive; it's the longer flights where this would be a real bonus, to Mid & West Coast US. Stansted is also a bonus for me.

quote:

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
See:

https://www.maxjet.com

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Sure as heck not applicable if you're flying out of Canada!

quote:

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

I bet they only have one plane?

[ 11-18-2005: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

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The 767 will be joined by Boeing 757-200s, likewise custom-configured to carry 72 passengers in MAXjet's all-business-class service.

[ 11-19-2005: Message edited by: Ocean Liners ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ocean Liners:

The 767 will be joined by Boeing 757-200s*, likewise custom-configured to carry 72 passengers in MAXjet's all-business-class service.

*This Boeing is a wide-body aircraft custom configured to accommodate 102 customers in MAXjet's spacious business-class seating.

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You need to move the asterisk. It's the 767 that is the wide-body. The 757 is a single aisle "standard" body plane that usually has a 3-3 seating configuration in cattle class.

Brian

[ 11-19-2005: Message edited by: Brian_O ]

MAXjet will expand its fleet and flight schedule and include a second flight between JFK and Stansted. During its first year of service, MAXjet will add additional routes to London from major U.S. markets. The airline also has DOT approval to operate transatlantic and intercontinental service to Aruba, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom.

[ 11-19-2005: Message edited by: Ocean Liners ]

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Originally posted by Globaliser:
Careful: there's business class and business class.

A real business class, competitive with the mainstream industry, looks more like this. That airline flies the same route as Maxjet. The price is commensurate with the product.

Maxjet's offering is substantially better than any premium economy (or, obviously, normal economy) product flying, but it's a bit like the business class of 15-20 years ago. That's one of the reasons why it can be offered so cheaply. This airline is really in the market for the passenger who's prepared to pay premium economy fares, but wants something more for the money than the major carriers deliver.

[ 11-18-2005: Message edited by: Globaliser ]

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Here is a Seating plan on the BA's Club World Cradle Seat

Configuration
(767)
Club World
Row 6 to 13

Though MAXjet says Since MAXjet is entirely business class, each seat is the best in the house. Our seating comes in pairs only, meaning that every MAXjet business class seat is either a window or an aisle. There is no middle seat, even in our spacious 767 wide-body aircraft.

You have generous legroom because the pitch, or the distance from one row to the next, is a full 60 inches.

What is the pitch on BA 767 aircraft?

[ 11-19-2005: Message edited by: Ocean Liners ]

quote:

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Originally posted by PamM:
But with only one aircraft.. what happens when it has a problem?

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Mind you, EOS has diverted into Luton this morning, for reasons which are unclear. So it'll work both ways.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ocean Liners:
Here is a Seating plan on the BA's Club World Cradle Seat
...
What is the pitch on BA 767 aircraft?

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The pitch for the flat beds is something like 73 or 75 inches, including a full flat and horizontal bed 72 inches long.

quote:

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Originally posted by Globaliser:

The pitch for the flat beds is something like 73 or 75 inches, including a full flat and horizontal bed 72 inches long.

Nevertheless, even this product is now out of date in comparison to competitors who started their flat bed projects later. So BA has just announced that the current flat bed is itself to be replaced by a new generation flat bed, with work to commence next year. The design is under tight confidentiality, and the only thing known is that B/E Aerospace is the design/build contractor.

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These lie-flat beds especially designed for long haul flights however BA and Virgin both offer lie-flat beds in their business classes between the United States and Britain though United use the seat below

United Business seat

If MAXjet offer Day flght from New York to London, in addition to exsiting overnight flight, they don't need to install the lie-flat beds onto their aircraft, I don't think that MAXjet need lie-flat beds on the day flight for about 7 hours, or If depend on demands for night flight, they would built up the lie-flat beds for upper business class at later.

Maxjet's one-way fares start at a delightfully low $679 and top out at a walk-up price of $1,979. (The walk-up business-class fare on Virgin for the next day is almost $4,500 one-way.)

[ 11-19-2005: Message edited by: Ocean Liners ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ocean Liners:
If MAXjet offer Day flght from New York to London, in addition to exsiting overnight flight, they don't need to install the lie-flat beds onto their aircraft, I don't think that MAXjet need lie-flat beds on the day flight for about 7 hours, or If depend on demands for night flight, they would built up the lie-flat beds for upper business class at later.

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For this market, the airlines have developed special products on these short night flights like BA's Sleeper Service, where you eat your dinner in the lounge at JFK, there is almost no food service on board during the entire flight - the cabin is deliberately dark and quiet for the whole flight - with a full hot breakfast served in the arrivals lounge together with showers, clothes-pressing and spa facilities (massages etc.).

That United seat - which I believe they fly across their entire network - is at least one generation behind the game, if not two. But the Maxjet seat is probably one generation further back. This is not a criticism of Maxjet, but it simply underlines the nature of the market that they're aiming at: It's really for those who are prepared to trade up slightly from current premium economy products (in fact, actually, people like me). It is not intended to compete with the full service business class aimed at the business traveller.

EOS, however, is. EOS' service levels are pitched at the same level as BA and VS. There's more difference between EOS and Maxjet than there is betwen EOS and BA/VS - hence my observation about there being business class and business class.

[ 11-20-2005: Message edited by: Globaliser ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Globaliser:

For this market, the airlines have developed special products on these short night flights like BA's Sleeper Service, where you eat your dinner in the lounge at JFK,

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I knew the BA's Sleeper Service

The Sleeper Service, available on selected overnight services*, has been designed to ensure you can be ready for bed as soon as you take off. Begin your evening in style with our new Pre-flight Supper** service, offered in the departures lounge.

Once on-board, our NightCap service will help you unwind. The cabin crew will dim the lights soon after take-off, keeping announcements and trolley movements to a minimum. The introduction of new larger pillows and thicker blankets means the fully flat bed is now more comfortable than ever.

** Pre-flight Supper is only available on East Coast North America flights and replaces the main meal on-board

quote:

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Originally posted by Globaliser:

there is almost no food service on board during the entire flight - the cabin is deliberately dark and quiet for the whole flight - with a full hot breakfast served in the arrivals lounge together with showers, clothes-pressing and spa facilities (massages etc.).

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If you get peckish during the flight, enjoy a snack from our range of Midnight Munchies.
Breakfast in Bed will be served as close to landing as possible, allowing you to maximise your sleep. Upon landing, you'll have the option to enjoy a hot breakfast and prepare for the day ahead in our Arrivals Lounge.

*The Sleeper Service is available on selected services from the East Coast of North America and the Middle East to London Heathrow. Please use the Network Map to find out if The Sleeper Service operates on your flight.

However my point is day flight, MAXjet is currently operating an overnight flight but they will soon develop day flight, from New York to London, this aircraft would not need lie-flat beds.

Although American Airlines to Introduce New Lie-Flat Business Class Seats on 767-300, 777 Aircraft so MAXjet may search passenger's demands from their customers for the first year, then they should decide their decisions.

American Airlines has announced plans to install new lie-flat seats and enhanced inflight entertainment in the Business Class cabin on all Boeing 767-300s and Boeing 777 aircraft. American also announced plans for additional cabin improvements on the Boeing 767-300, including larger and more spacious overhead bins. The new lie-flat business class seats will be manufactured by Recaro, a leading specialist in aviation seating.

Enhancements to the Boeing 767-300 Business Class cabin are slated to begin in 2006.

American will begin installing the new Business Class seats on the Boeing 777 fleet beginning in 2007. Additionally, American is investing in the Boeing 777 First Class cabin by extending customer-favorite Flagship Suites to 20 additional aircraft, thus creating a superior product across the fleet.

quote:

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Originally posted by Globaliser:

EOS, however, is. EOS' service levels are pitched at the same level as BA and VS. There's more difference between EOS and Maxjet than there is betwen EOS and BA/VS - hence my observation about there being business class and business class.

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I don't think MAXjet are going to be offered EOS' service level at this stage. I believe they are targeting the business travelers for currently flying American Carriers who does not offer the lie-flat beds.

[ 11-20-2005: Message edited by: Ocean Liners ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ocean Liners:
However my point is day flight, MAXjet is currently operating an overnight flight but they will soon develop day flight, from New York to London, this aircraft would not need lie-flat beds.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Globaliser:

The demand for day flights from New York to London is small. If you want a cheap fare from the east coast to London, it's more likely than not that you'll find the cheapest deals on those day flights. (The same applies to routes from London to the Far East where you have a choice of day flights and night flights - if there is any difference, the day flights are usually cheaper.)

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BA and AA operates mornng departure flights from New York to Heathrow.

As for the flight from Heathrow to Narita, BA operates two flights both leaves at afternoon so the fare is the same.

quote:

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Originally posted by Globaliser:

I can't see Maxjet targeting the day flight audience before they've found themselves profitable on more conventional timings. And they need to get themselves profitable using their relatively poor seat on the night flights that they are already operating.

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They are trying to bring low fares to business class.
Gary Rogliano, the frequent-flying businessman who stepped in as Maxjet chief executive in March, explains the airline's philosophy simply: "We're applying the low-fare model to the business cabin. The critical point is the price point. Maxjet has everything you'd expect in business class for 75% less."

[ 11-21-2005: Message edited by: Ocean Liners ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ocean Liners:
BA and AA operates mornng departure flights from New York to Heathrow.

As for the flight from Heathrow to Narita, BA operates two flights both leaves at afternoon so the fare is the same.

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Contrast this with the evening peak, where some of the airlines run almost a shuttle service. BA flights from JFK, for example: 6.30 pm, 7 pm, 7.30 pm, 8.30 pm, 9.30 pm, 10.30 pm. This is where the money is made.

So the schedules tell you a great deal about the relative demand for day flights and night flights. And even then, the day flights tend to be cheaper.

Similarly for the following points:-
Washington area: 7 non-stop flights a day, 1 day flight, 6 night flights
Chicago: 10 non-stop flights a day, 1 day flight, 9 night flights
Boston: 7 non-stop flights a day, 2 day flights, 5 night flights
Toronto: 6 non-stop flights a day, 1 day flight, 5 night flights

As far as I know, there are no other North American points that currently offer any day flights to London.

If you want Far East routes on which to compare the prices of daytime and evening departures, try London-Hong Kong. This currently supports 1½ daytime depatures out of 8½ daily non-stop flights. Again, the daytime departures are usually cheaper. Sometimes you get special offers which are valid only on the daytime departures, which is another indicator of what sells and what doesn't.

quote:

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Gary Rogliano, the frequent-flying businessman who stepped in as Maxjet chief executive in March, explains the airline's philosophy simply: "We're applying the low-fare model to the business cabin. The critical point is the price point. Maxjet has everything you'd expect in business class for 75% less."

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That's why it's much more accurate to regard Maxjet as a product aimed at those trading up from premium economy.

[ 11-21-2005: Message edited by: Globaliser ]

I by far prefer these daytime flights, it does away with the jet lag and I always try and book them if possible. So do many people I know. Ok, it's a day out the office, but you have no jet lag the following morning [and it is swings and roundabouts if you have taken an evening fight over, rather than the usual daytime flight], and beats anything else. I'd love to know the load factors [as they seem to be often full] v the evening flights.

[ 11-21-2005: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

quote:

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Originally posted by PamM:
Globaliser I always thought the reason for fewer 'daytime madness' flights, was purely because of the timings and the need for aircraft to be left standing around in the US for long periods.

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This is demonstrated by other routes where there is a lot of downtime deliberately built in to the schedules. Take London-Johannesburg as an example: The flights are about 11 hrs in each direction. This means that an aircraft could operate overnight in one direction and daylight in the other. But all these flights are overnight. The UK aircraft sit idle on the tarmac at Joburg from 7 am until 8 pm every day, and the South African aircraft similarly sit idle on the tarmac at Heathrow for the same sort of times every day. Although there are times when daylight flights from Joburg would have to be payload restricted because it can be "hot and high", this schedule pattern persists year-round. This indicates that these schedules are driven by what the traffic on these routes demands.

Funnily enough , it's the lower-yielding London-Cape Town route which offers seasonal (northern winter) daylight flights. This suggests that the demand for the daylight flights comes more from leisure pax than business pax.

quote:

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Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:
I would not be comfortable flying a new start up company w/few aircraft. What happens if their airplane has a mechanical problem? Are you going to be re-booked on another carrier (and are the majors going to except their tickets?). ... As for flying first or business class on the major airlines I wonder just how many people are paying full fare? Many passengers are upgraded through their frequent flyer programs and are not paying full fare 1st or business class. Of couse this is space available as well as the full fare folks will be sold a seat 1st w/the remaining seats going to upgrades or standby airline employees.

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On the London-New York route, there will be a pretty good proportion of pax paying first and business class fares, in a mixture of published rates, corporate discounts, and leisure fares. You have to remember that this was the only route in the world which ever supported year-round twice-daily supersonic flights. When Concorde was still flying the route twice-daily, BA effectively flew 200 supersonic seats each way every day in addition to 98 first class seats (which were cheaper) and 400 or so business class seats. By all accounts, BA could expect to sell over 70 supersonic seats each way every day at the height of Concorde service (breakeven load factor is said to have been about 35%, and Concorde made good operating profits in the good times).

While life is no longer as good, and the 11 September 2001 attacks took away a large chunk of BA's super-premium business, there is still a large amount of money in this route. EOS is chasing that true premium market, but Maxjet isn't.

quote:

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
I think the idea will be very popular with tourist like me that are prepared to pay a little more for some comfort but do not require an in-flight bed and another mortgage!

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