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» Cruise Talk   » Ocean Liners and Classic Cruise Ships   » SS UNITED STATES: Redevelopment Update

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Author Topic: SS UNITED STATES: Redevelopment Update
SSTRAVELER
First Class Passenger
Member # 15170

posted 06-18-2015 09:18 AM      Profile for SSTRAVELER     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The following was issued as an update from the SS United States Conservancy about the progress they are making towards a redevelopment agreement. (I remind you that I am just passing this on as an interested observer and have no direct affiliation with the Conservancy.)

The announcement including a rendering is here: http://t.co/8wtc1dFR4Y

The text follows:

In the coming weeks, the Conservancy will be providing a "sneak peek" of some of the conceptual renderings that have been generated by top architectural firms as they reimagine the rebirth of the SS United States. This image illustrates how "America's Flagship" might appear as a stationary mixed-use museum and development complex. A number of architects and designers have been developing a range of creative approaches, and these will be enhanced and refined as the process advances. The Conservancy looks forward to sharing these concepts with its members and to receiving your input and suggestions.

SS United States Redevelopment Update

As you know, the Conservancy entered into a preliminary agreement to advance the SS United States' redevelopment with an impressive team including some of the nation's most qualified, respected, and innovative developers and managers of commercial real estate. Our partners share our passion for America's Flagship and fully appreciate the ship's iconic status and the importance of preserving the vessel's historic integrity. In recent months, an intensive due diligence process has been underway, involving a large team of architects, engineers, and maritime experts.


Major progress has been achieved, but many hurdles remain. The project is extraordinarily complex and it requires the design and construction of new pier infrastructure, a full exterior restoration, updating of internal systems, dry-docking, and internal redesign and restoration, all while retaining the vessel's iconic exterior and incorporating a world-class museum, Non-disclosure agreements limit the amount of information we've been able to provide to our supporters. However, we wanted to share the latest updates:

Gibbs & Cox, the marine engineering and naval architectural firm that designed the SS United States, has been retained by our development partners to advance a process of due diligence and generate detailed vessel plans. Gibbs & Cox has also overseen outreach to shipyards, joiners, designers, and a range of specialists.

A number of exciting and wide-ranging conceptual renderings have been developed for the ship by some of the nation's top architectural firms. While they are still very preliminary, we look forward to sharing some of these initial concepts and receiving your input.

Meetings with major hotel brands have been held with very positive results, and an informal working relationship has been established between the developers and a major hotel chain interested in exploring their involvement in the ship's renaissance.

Our development partners have invested more than $500,000 during this exploratory phase, and they are committing additional personnel and financial resources in the coming months as they work to resolve the project's remaining challenges.


Renewed Fundraising Campaign

Due to the project's complexity, the due diligence process has extended beyond the period in which the developers were obligated to pay the vessel's monthly carrying costs. As a result, the Conservancy has the resources to cover the ship's ongoing carrying costs for a very limited time. We hope to negotiate a new agreement over the next 60 days. However, at this crucial juncture, we must resume our fundraising.

While our partners will be looking to raise millions to finance the ship's development, the Conservancy must raise an additional $180,000 between now and August 15.

In the coming weeks we will share further details on our summer fundraising and outreach plans. We are organizing a festive event in Philadelphia on July 30 - please mark your calendars!

We will also be offering new branded merchandise and we will be mounting a major membership drive.

Contributions of any size will be an enormous help as we enter this final phase. Donations can be made online at http://www.ssusc.org/give-and-join/donate/

Again, we can't thank you enough for your continued support, and please don't hesitate to contact us directly with any questions, suggestions, or advice. We agree wholeheartedly with last weekend's Parade Magazine, which affirmed that the SS United States is a "national treasure of the highest order."


Posts: 757 | From: New York | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged
Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES
First Class Passenger
Member # 5641

posted 06-19-2015 06:36 AM      Profile for Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Author's Homepage   Email Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
SS TRAVELLER

It should prove cheaper to build a new replica US flag ship, designed to be used as a stationary hotel ship and maritime museum, than keep wasting money trying to keep the present wreck of a passenger ship afloat and convert her !
.


Posts: 2355 | From: Dunstable, Bedfordshire. 30 miles north of London | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
SSTRAVELER
First Class Passenger
Member # 15170

posted 06-29-2015 08:32 AM      Profile for SSTRAVELER     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Another demonstration of the influence the SS United States had on the modern industry:

The current captain of the Norwegian Breakaway is not only an American or a graduate of the US Merchant Marine Academy -- when asked what inspired him he said a crossing on the SS United States when he was a young man!


Posts: 757 | From: New York | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged
Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES
First Class Passenger
Member # 5641

posted 07-01-2015 07:08 AM      Profile for Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Author's Homepage   Email Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
SS TRAVELLER

That does not alter the fact that it would still be cheaper to build a stationary replica of the ' ss United States ' which could be used as a museum ship and also meet all the latest safety regulations required for a stationary ship ! .

It would also save on the present mooring fees still being wasted.

The wreck of what was a fast US passenger ship should now be scrapped to save money and then sell parts of her for raising more money to build a replica ship !

Putting this wreck in New York harbour is not the end of the costs of operating her as her maintenance will still cost millions of dollars a year.

She should now be scrapped as many people who were about when she set the fastest crossing of the atlantic ocean recoreds are no longer with us !

You need to get in the real world and wake up !
.
.


Posts: 2355 | From: Dunstable, Bedfordshire. 30 miles north of London | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 09-19-2015 04:29 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
...to put the efforts on saving the United States or other passenger ships into context:

A group of enthusiasts of the decommissioned aircraft known as The Concorde Club have amassed £160million to give the supersonic passenger jet a new lease of life.

DailyMail: Concorde set to return to the skies: Supersonic jet may be used for charter flights by 2019

We will see whether a Concorde is indeed flying again in 2019, however, it is in many ways an interesting comparison.


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 09-24-2015 04:14 PM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Concorde is of course far more widely known than SSUS, globally. They have raised a huge amount of money and while they raise the money there are none of the pesky berthing charges to take it away as soon as it is in the bank. Whether or not Concorde flies again [and perhaps not a good idea IMHO], one on a barge with restaurant on the Thames will be great - I'll be there.

Perhaps the SSUS Foundation can borrow some fund raising ideas, or at least do something that's not 'we can't tell you what but we are making progress behind the scenes'

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
SSTRAVELER
First Class Passenger
Member # 15170

posted 09-24-2015 09:29 PM      Profile for SSTRAVELER     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The problem with reactivating the Concorde is that the plane's first certificates have long ago expired and they would either have to update all the technology from the 1960s to the current day and then get the plane re-certified or install all new flight technology and then re-certify the plane. Either way it is a big undertaking.

When you entered the plane there was a hallway that was her computers for the flight technology. Today I would bet my laptop could do the same or maybe a smart phone! And while the plane was incredible it was using very old technology that is completely different versus what a modern commercial plane is.

Further with only seating for 100 passengers the economics are very different versus a modern commercial plane.

I flew Concorde and loved it and wish I could still but the odds she flies again are about as long as the United States taking to the seas again.


Posts: 757 | From: New York | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged
PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 09-26-2015 07:15 PM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, all those banks of computers, which is why I said I thought it perhaps might not be a good idea. All this stuff is completely outdated, since she stopped flying even. I am sure some was updated before then but it must surely be a far harder task to bring Concorde back to flying than an older aircraft not relying on electronics/software to control things. But what do I know? nothing

Floating on the water is a much better idea. More people can visit in a week than can fly in months.

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
SSTRAVELER
First Class Passenger
Member # 15170

posted 09-28-2015 09:33 AM      Profile for SSTRAVELER     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The fact that the Concord's technology was so old and that she was going to need a renewal of its flight certificates was an unwritten (or unacknowledged) contributor to the reason the plane was retired. BA had said that the economics of a redo of its flight controls just did not make sense based on the plane's earnings capabilities. It had been looked into as I understand it. Now with the plane retired (grounded) for so many years all of the flight certificates will have totally expired which makes reactivation very difficult.

It is the same with old ships. Think of all the rules the classification societies enforce and all the old ships that have run into problems with their classification societies in the last years' of their lives.


Posts: 757 | From: New York | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged
Globaliser
First Class Passenger
Member # 4153

posted 09-28-2015 06:15 PM      Profile for Globaliser     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SSTRAVELER:
The fact that the Concord's technology was so old and that she was going to need a renewal of its flight certificates was an unwritten (or unacknowledged) contributor to the reason the plane was retired. BA had said that the economics of a redo of its flight controls just did not make sense based on the plane's earnings capabilities.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Concorde had a perfectly valid CoA that could have continued to be renewed for as long as all the conditions remained in place. But those conditions would not continue to be in place, and that was essentially a consequence of operational economics - mostly on the French side (which is a statement of fact and circumstances rather than a criticism). Specifically, the airframe manufacturer was no longer prepared to support the aircraft. But that wasn't a question of the CoA somehow approaching some fixed time limitation.

One other thing about Concorde's technology is that one of the issues could be said to be that it is too young rather than too old. Comparisons have been drawn between Vulcan's continued flying (although now only for a couple more weeks) and Concorde's permanent grounding. If (so the question goes) an old bird like Vulcan can be restored to flight, why not Concorde? The answer is that Vulcan's technology was about a decade older and so was much simpler. Concorde's technology was more modern, and requires more sophisticated looking after.

There is one valid parallel, though: Vulcan is being grounded in a couple of weeks time because the manufacturers (this time both the airframe and the engine manufacturers) have said that they are no longer prepared to support the aircraft. So the CoA will similarly now be withdrawn.

Some may remember that I could bore for Britain on this subject, but I will leave it there.


Posts: 1869 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
SSTRAVELER
First Class Passenger
Member # 15170

posted 09-29-2015 10:50 PM      Profile for SSTRAVELER     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I swear I was told by one of the pilots that there was an issue that they needed to renew the flight certificates too .... but maybe it was just the airframe issue on the Concorde.

I know they looked at updating the computer technology and that would have been costly first to do but then the flight certificates would have to have been redone and that made it cost prohibitive they said.

You know more about the Vulcan than me but isn't there a difference between getting a plane into commercial service carrying 100 passengers on charters versus the demo flights the Vulcan was doing? Also as you said Vulcan has a simpler generation in technology. Concorde of course was cutting edge or bleeding edge in the 1960s.

The pilot I knew from Concorde loved to point out during the flight to the passengers who were eating caviar and sipping champagne that the only other people flying at Mach 2 were strapped into an ejector seat .....


Posts: 757 | From: New York | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged
PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 10-03-2015 09:40 AM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Globaliser:
Some may remember that I could bore for Britain on this subject, but I will leave it there.

You can 'bore' the rest all you like, I find it interesting. Do you think Concorde will fly again with this group? and do you think the restaurant plan will go through? - I do like that idea.

If she does fly I am guessing a trip may well be far more expensive than she would have been, like for like, back in the 80s/90s. My parents did one of the fly one way Concorde/sail the other way QE2 trips back in the early 80s, I have all the paperwork somewhere, but afaicr the bill was very reasonable, about £1100 or so each.

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
BMWM5
First Class Passenger
Member # 60947

posted 10-05-2015 10:23 AM      Profile for BMWM5        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
While on the subject of Concorde a far superior aircraft would have been Boeing's version of it. The aircraft was named 2707. A mock up of her is at the Boeing Museum in Seattle. The plane measured 306ft in length vs Concorde's 202ft. Wingspans compared were 180ft vs 84. Payload was 75,000 lbs vs 29,500.
Passengers were 277 for Boeing vs 92-120 for Concorde. The Boeing supersonic was slightly faster at mach 2.7 vs 2.4 with a longer range of 4,250 miles vs 3,900. Unfortunately environmentalists pressured the Nixon Administration into canceling the final stages of the project.

It's unfortunate that Boeing never completed their version of the SST project. I'm sure she would have been a more efficient aircraft with a successful career. The Air Force had a keen interest in the project for a replacement to the Boeing 707 Air Force One's SAM 26000 and 27000. Instead they were replaced with a pair of 747's. SAM 28000 & 29000.


Posts: 50 | From: Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2011  |  IP: Logged
Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES
First Class Passenger
Member # 5641

posted 10-14-2015 04:03 PM      Profile for Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Author's Homepage   Email Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As an 80th birthday treat for my Mother I took her on one of the celebration Concorde flights which went out from the UK Heathrow airport and flew supersonic out to the Bay of Biscay and returned to the UK Manchester airport where we had about a one hour wait to join a 757 for the flight back to Heathrow so we saw Concorde take off on her next flight.

My mother had never flown before and enjoyed her flight on Concorde which was about 1.25 hours.

I took her up to the cockpit to get her flight certificate signed and also got mine done.

It was also possible to take pictures when we disembarked at Manchester, with the plane in the background, so I have some memorable pictures of that flight.

This flight was on the 13th November 1988 the day before my mother's 80th Birthday.

I have my Cocorde flight certificate on display in my company office but as Mum passed away about six years later I keep her certificate in the family deed box with some other of her items.
.


Posts: 2355 | From: Dunstable, Bedfordshire. 30 miles north of London | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged

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