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» Cruise Talk   » Ocean Liners and Classic Cruise Ships   » Bring QE2 back to service: A Petition.

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Author Topic: Bring QE2 back to service: A Petition.
Guest
First Class Passenger
Member # 1157

posted 01-27-2011 07:10 AM      Profile for Guest        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was emailed and asked to sign this the other day... of course, I did (as you'd expect )

The preface is whether you believe it would work or not, if you'd like to see her back in service (even if just dreaming) then sign your name to show your support.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bringbackqe2/


Posts: 1888 | From: Earth | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 01-27-2011 03:42 PM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Chris,

The QE2 is done. The number of afficionados is not enough to keep her employed year round. In her last years the pricing was that of the Regal Empress. Her wood and brass were real unlike QE2's plastic variety and had better food and service.

She could not compete in today's market without a complete gutting and re-building of her hotel then become a gross caricature of herself, and for that price a newbuild.

Classic liners are not backward compatible. Those raised on them like myself can adapt to a modern cruiseship. Those raised on modern cruiseboats will not be happy on the QE2.

I sailed her in 2003 and she was starting to fall apart and had several mechanical mishaps including a sea chest collapse that could have sunk the ship in mid-ocean. Most of her interesting original decor is gone and what replaced it looks like a dated Hilton. Concentrate on jump starting Dubai. Meanwhile enjoy the Queen Mary 2 which is a far superior successor.

[ 01-27-2011: Message edited by: desirod7 ]


Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
dougnewman
First Class Passenger
Member # 11349

posted 01-27-2011 04:45 PM      Profile for dougnewman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by desirod7:
In her last years the pricing was that of the Regal Empress.
It most definitely was not!

Yes, she was an old ship and it was time for her to go sooner or later (Dubai's rather insane offer made it a bit sooner) but there was no problem at all filling the ship at fares most newer ships can only dream of.

And she was not the only old ship that filled up without deep discounting, either. I give you the Saga sisters and MARCO POLO as other examples.


Posts: 2072 | From: Long Island, NY, USA | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 01-27-2011 05:42 PM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dougnewman:
It most definitely was not!

I should know Doug since I bought cruises on both ships without Daddy quietly paying the tab.

QE2's fares and occupancy went up right in that short time window after the announcement of her retirement for those wanting a last gasp.


Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
lasuvidaboy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4527

posted 01-27-2011 09:29 PM      Profile for lasuvidaboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wonder how many passengers that have cruised on QV and now the new QE would be happy w/QE2? QE2 was great in her prime and nothing beat her for a really fast (unlike the slow ones QM2 is now doing) Transatlantic crossing. There are now three Cunarders w/facilities and modern cabins that QE2 can not compete with.
Posts: 7654 | From: Hollywood Hills/L.A. | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 01-27-2011 10:14 PM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Chris:
I was emailed and asked to sign this the other day... of course, I did (as you'd expect )

The preface is whether you believe it would work or not, if you'd like to see her back in service (even if just dreaming) then sign your name to show your support.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bringbackqe2/



Dude, it's a BUSINESS! The QE2 is no longer profitable.

Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 01-27-2011 10:32 PM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:
I wonder how many passengers that have cruised on QV and now the new QE would be happy w/QE2? QE2 was great in her prime and nothing beat her for a really fast (unlike the slow ones QM2 is now doing) Transatlantic crossing. There are now three Cunarders w/facilities and modern cabins that QE2 can not compete with.

Bruce, could you enjoy driving the '75 Bonneville on a daily commuting basis when you are used to modern T-bird?

Bonneville was an effortless luxury car of the time.


Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Brian_O
First Class Passenger
Member # 3910

posted 01-28-2011 12:33 AM      Profile for Brian_O     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have a mountain of good memories from sailing regularly on QE2, but her time has come and gone. I say scrap her asap before she turns into another SS United States fiasco: i.e. one under-financed scheme after another dragging on for years at end.

Sorry, Chris.

Brian


Posts: 2698 | From: Pointe-Claire, QC Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
dmwnc1
Cruise Director
Member # 3785

posted 01-28-2011 02:50 AM      Profile for dmwnc1   Email dmwnc1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I did an 'unofficial poll' over on the Cunard board of CC and asked those who had (at that time) sailed on all three Queens (QM2, QV, and QE2) their opinions. Most had fond memories of the QE2 (some where completely and utterly disappointed) but all agreed she was outdated and well past her prime. Many were very, very excited about the new-build QE (as only die hard Cunard fans could be) and eagerly awaited her completion. They also indicated that the creature comforts on the newer Queens (QM2 and QV) were by far superior in every aspect to those on the QE2. Sure the QE2 had her moments (according to the respondees) as well as that certain 'ambience' and 'charm' that only a 40-year old aging liner can have, but all agreed without exception they preferred the newer Queens compared to the QE2. 

I would hate to see her scrapped as she is iconic to the industry, but what else can be done that wouldn't alter her current appearance and still be profitable? She most definitely have been retired once the new QE entered service (could Cunard sustain a four ship fleet in today's economy) and Dubai most likely would not have placed a bid on her, so she would already be sitting on the beaches of Alang or worse relegated to some short-market cruises at budget prices until she fell apart at the seams. Cunard and Carnival Corp would have no doubt been very hesitant if unwilling to invest another $10-million of so into a complete gutting and refit of her interiors to compete with today's more modern ships like her own fleet mates or Celebrity's Solstice-class.

Sad to say, it would be best if she slipped off unnoticed into the dark of night and was never seen again. 


Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
DAMBROSI2
First Class Passenger
Member # 35998

posted 01-28-2011 09:45 AM      Profile for DAMBROSI2   Email DAMBROSI2   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Okay boys...before this goes into a full blown problem. Let's control ourselves here, we went through all of this with the legendary SS NORWAY. For the time being, QE 2 is still there, let's just not get into this and treat each other with kindness, please.
Posts: 687 | From: Olney, IL, Move to FL 02/2015, Sailed SS NORWAY 3 xs. /May '99 Orig. Reg. | Registered: Aug 2010  |  IP: Logged
lasuvidaboy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4527

posted 01-28-2011 01:17 PM      Profile for lasuvidaboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by desirod7:

Bruce, could you enjoy driving the '75 Bonneville on a daily commuting basis when you are used to modern T-bird?

Bonneville was an effortless luxury car of the time.


It's actually a Grandville ) Of course you cannot compare the two-apples and oranges. Like a new ship verses an older one, you have to appreciate what both have to offer.


Posts: 7654 | From: Hollywood Hills/L.A. | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
lasuvidaboy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4527

posted 01-28-2011 01:26 PM      Profile for lasuvidaboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dmwnc1:
Cunard and Carnival Corp would have no doubt been very hesitant if unwilling to invest another $10-million of so into a complete gutting and refit of her interiors to compete with today's more modern ships like her own fleet mates or Celebrity's Solstice-class.


I think the bill would be more like $75-100 million to upgrade her cabins and facilities. She would also lose passenger capacity (and revenue) if all the small outdated cabins were ripped out and replaced w/modern 200 sq. foot units.

QE2 was special in her day-just like QM2 is special today. The QE and QV are just cruise ships while the current flagship QM2 and the former flagship QE2 are/were in a completely different league. Now if Carnival would power up QM2 and return to the 6-day Transat I might go again!

We are so lucky today to have a quadruple screw (ok POD), 1100 foot long beautifully fitted 6-day Transatlantic liner in service to enjoy. There may never be another.

[ 01-28-2011: Message edited by: lasuvidaboy ]


Posts: 7654 | From: Hollywood Hills/L.A. | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
dougnewman
First Class Passenger
Member # 11349

posted 01-28-2011 01:43 PM      Profile for dougnewman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by desirod7:
I should know Doug since I bought cruises on both ships without Daddy quietly paying the tab.
And so did I David ... multiple times in the case of QE2. So drop the ageist crap already.

It is certainly true that there were the occasional very deep discounts on QE2, as there are on nearly every ship. But they were just that -- occasional.

It is possible that as time went on it would have become difficult to fill her at relatively high fares but that was not happening yet on most cruises.

quote:
Originally posted by desirod7:
QE2's fares and occupancy went up right in that short time window after the announcement of her retirement for those wanting a last gasp.
Fares certainly did rise after the retirement announcement as one would expect, but they were already fairly high.

quote:
Originally posted by Rex:
Dude, it's a BUSINESS! The QE2 is no longer profitable.
Well, she's not making money for her owners in Dubai!

On the other hand, she was profitable for Cunard right up to the very end. I'm not saying she would have been forever, of course, or even necessarily much longer, as ships get old and wear out and indeed at some point they may have been unable to sell her lower-end accommodation at anything but very cheap fares. But neither of those had happened yet.

Mind you, none of that has to do with the viability of returning her to service now, which is not an option. Cunard, and her passengers, have moved on.

quote:
Originally posted by Brian_O:
I say scrap her asap before she turns into another SS United States fiasco: i.e. one under-financed scheme after another dragging on for years at end.
I agree. At this point I don't hold out hope for much of anything good happening. I would rather she had just gone straight to the breakers' -- get it over with.

quote:
Originally posted by dmwnc1:
I would hate to see her scrapped as she is iconic to the industry, but what else can be done that wouldn't alter her current appearance and still be profitable?
Well, I'd be OK with altering her current appearance, if done sensitively -- after all, it has been altered loads of times before. Similarly, the current interiors, for the most part, are not special ... really, other than her fame, there is nothing about her that makes her a good candidate for preservation. What made her special was not the physical ship but the "experience," and of course that cannot be replicated on a static vessel.

Indeed, if she was "preserved" as-is I think it would just be depressing ... like looking at the embalmed corpse of an old friend. She would have to be re-imagined as something different. And hopefully that something different would be something good. It all seems a bit of a moot point now anyway, though.

quote:
Originally posted by dmwnc1:
Cunard and Carnival Corp would have no doubt been very hesitant if unwilling to invest another $10-million of so into a complete gutting and refit of her interiors to compete with today's more modern ships like her own fleet mates or Celebrity's Solstice-class.
You can add at least another zero to that. I would suspect it would be more like $200+ million, though.

And truthfully, it could have been a viable option, once -- given her fame and reputation, and the fact that her hull and engines were/are sound. But the whole superstructure would have to go, and obviously the interiors massively reconfigured. Why bother when it would be easier to build a new ship? The only reason, as I said, would be her fame and reputation. Cunard bet that it could be transferred to a new ship, and bet correctly. The new QUEEN ELIZABETH is a fine ship, though I personally prefer QUEEN MARY 2. And more importantly for Cunard, the goodwill and loyalty that surrounded QE2 seems to have been successfully transferred to the current fleet.


Posts: 2072 | From: Long Island, NY, USA | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
miamicruiser
First Class Passenger
Member # 4413

posted 01-28-2011 11:24 PM      Profile for miamicruiser   Email miamicruiser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Alright let's look at the options that have been mentioned for QE2. Reentering some kind of passenger service? Highly doubtful as probably that was part of the sales agreement with Carnival Corp & PLC. Scrapping? Well maybe but I think that her fame and reputation is still great and the public outcry especially in the UK would be huge.
That leaves the shoreside complex of some sort such as the Queen Mary in Long Beach as the remaining option. But would it work in Dubai? It looks like that is still possible but might be a while before anything like that happens. Would a rebuild of the size that Dubai was looking at necessary? Probably not and a much scaled-down version might work just as well. The other option is having her docked somewhere other than Dubai. That seems very possible. Maybe year-round or maybe seasonally and moveable (but non-passenger carrying while between ports) to various port cities as a unique hotel, museum, convention center. This seems to be an idea that was really looked into. My gut feeling is that the current owners will make some kind of decision sooner instead of later and will not let her sit empty for years and years as the SS United States has had to endure.

Posts: 54 | From: miami | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cunardcoll
First Class Passenger
Member # 1226

posted 02-15-2011 02:18 PM      Profile for Cunardcoll   Author's Homepage   Email Cunardcoll   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is another option wich is somewhat in between passenger service and museum, follow the example of the Cap San Diego in Hamburg, open her up as a museum but keep het in operational condition as far as engines and hull are concerned, keep about 10 to 20 % of the cabins in use for stays onboard in dock or the occasional sailing to maritime events. the museum and "hotel" generate money and open her restaurants up for daily use, the setting for this could be Southampton, London, Cherbourg, Liverpool, Cork, ... just a few possibilities

Jochen


Posts: 947 | From: Belgium | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
lasuvidaboy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4527

posted 02-15-2011 02:38 PM      Profile for lasuvidaboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Interesting idea but the difference is QE2 is a 936' 70,000 ton passenger ship. She would take up 3-4 times the amount of docking space and is very expensive to operate-even while docked.
Posts: 7654 | From: Hollywood Hills/L.A. | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
LeBarryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 5308

posted 02-15-2011 03:50 PM      Profile for LeBarryboat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'd like to see QE2 used occasionally for short cruises, however; I don't think Cunard would allow it legally?? Only problem is that she would have to run a regular passenger service to be profitable, rather than the occasional run, and many wouldn't want to pay what the company operating her would need in order to run and maintain her properly. Maybe she could tour the world's ports and stay in each port for several months at a time stationary in each port, then off to the next port. She could be used as a hotel resort, special entertainment venues while she is in port for several months at a time. Then move on to the next port. ??
Posts: 1955 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 02-15-2011 04:14 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And who would want that? Her niche would be microscopically small especially since Cunard did an excellent job with introducing the new ships - it seems that if even many loyal customers could be 'persuaded' to like the new vessels ('it's not the same but I love my balcony').

Traveling with QE2 was about the atmosphere aboard. The ship itself is certainly not living up to the expectations of most people who have not been aboard before.

Not only would it require a lot to convert QE2 in such a manner that she could meet those expectations - actually this precisely what the new Cunard vessels were built for. These ships achieve that in a more perfect manner than a converted QE2 ever could - beside that such a conversion would 'destroy' all that is left of her.

QE2 is old but not 'antique' like Queen Mary - her most valuable asset is or was her name but in the meantime even that has been 'transferred' to the new Cunard ships to a certain extent.

[ 02-15-2011: Message edited by: Ernst ]


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged

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