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» Cruise Talk   » Ocean Liners and Classic Cruise Ships   » SS United States in danger of scrapping again (Page 1)

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Author Topic: SS United States in danger of scrapping again
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 03-02-2010 05:13 PM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
March 2, 2010 – The SS United States Conservancy has recently learned that America’s national flagship, the SS United States, is in imminent danger of being bought by scrappers. This great vessel, which still holds the trans-Atlantic speed record, may soon be destroyed. Bids for purchase of the ship by scrappers are being collected by NCL this month.

The current owners of the vessel, Genting Hong Kong (formerly Star Cruises Limited), through its subsidiary, Norwegian Cruise Line (NCL), listed the vessel for sale in February 2009 but have not announced a purchaser to date. There has been acute interest in the ship by scrapping companies. While NCL graciously offered the Conservancy first right of refusal on a sale of the vessel in 2009, the Conservancy has not been in a financial position to purchase the ship outright. The organization has been working diligently to lay the groundwork for a public-private partnership that can save the ship and sustain her for generations to come.

The Conservancy understands that Genting and NCL are reluctant to continue covering the significant costs associated with maintaining the vessel in its current berth in Philadelphia and appreciates the good care the vessel has received since being purchased by NCL in 2003 with the stated intentions of returning the ship to seagoing service. The Conservancy has maintained a positive working relationship with NCL over the past seven years and looks forward to an ongoing collaboration during this critical period.

The Conservancy has begun discussions with NCL with the intent of covering some of the fees associated with maintaining the ship in Philadelphia as it finalizes plans for repurposing the ship as a stationary attraction on a large metropolitan waterfront. The Conservancy’s new national campaign is titled “Save Our Ship” (SOS) and offers a “Plank Owner” certificate for tax-deductible donations of at least $25 via its new donor website: www.ssusplankowner.org .

“The Save Our Ship campaign shows the groundswell of public support for the SS United States we’ve seen throughout the nation,” said Conservancy Board President Susan Gibbs, whose grandfather, William Francis Gibbs, designed the vessel. “We’re modeling this campaign on the public subscription which saved the USS Constitution back in the 1920s through contributions of Americans from all walks of life. There’s a reason why this ship is still with us. She absolutely must be saved for future generations.”

The SS United States was a powerful Cold War weapon disguised as a luxury ocean liner. She sailed from New York to Europe and other destinations from 1952-1969, transporting four American presidents, countless foreign heads of state, A-list celebrities, military and business leaders, artists, and diplomats, not to mention ordinary citizens and many immigrants to America during her mishap-free 400 voyages.

Conservancy Board Member Mark Perry produced an award-winning American Public Television documentary on the SS United States in 2008. This film, SS United States: Lady in Waiting, will be screened at the National Academy Museum (1083 Fifth Avenue, at 89th Street in Manhattan) on Thursday, March 11th, 7 p.m., followed by a reception and call to action. Registration is via the Conservancy website.

At the event, Walter Cronkite IV will join the Conservancy’s Advisory Council, on which his grandfather served as Honorary Chairman. Mr. Cronkite’s participation and support is emblematic of the Conservancy’s commitment to engaging a new generation of Americans about the importance of our national flagship.

All supporters are asked to visit the Conservancy’s site and register to receive updates about the Conservancy’s efforts to save the SS United States and to make a tax-deductible contribution to the SOS Campaign.

“This is both a patriotic and a practical effort,” said Conservancy Executive Director Dan McSweeney, whose father emigrated from Scotland to America to serve as a crewmember aboard the vessel. “We’re absolutely committed to saving one of the most important symbols of America in the 20th century, but we’re also talking about creating hundreds, if not thousands, of jobs when this ship is refurbished and becomes a stationary attraction in a large U.S. city. We must save this irreplaceable American icon and continue the process of establishing a public-private partnership to re-purpose her.”


About the SS United States Conservancy:

The SS United States Conservancy’s founding Board has compiled a long track record of accomplishments on behalf of the SS United States reaching back over twenty years. The Conservancy’s leadership has been interviewed by major media outlets, published books and articles on the SS United States, organized educational meetings on the ship’s history that have drawn hundreds of participants from across the country, produced award-winning websites, produced the award-winning documentary SS United States: Lady in Waiting, and engaged in ongoing outreach and advocacy on behalf of the ship’s preservation. The Conservancy emerged as an independent 501(c)3 organization from the SS United States Preservation Society, which was instrumental in placing the ship on the National Register of Historic Places.

For more information contact: Dan McSweeney, Executive Director media@ssunitedstatesconservancy.org Tel: 202. 486. 1522


Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
LenKinap
First Class Passenger
Member # 23718

posted 03-02-2010 06:02 PM      Profile for LenKinap        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hello,

Sad but not unexpected. Even in France where we have a great system to preserve buildings, industrial product (Steam locos, vessels, etc...), a classification in term of "Monument Historique" (historical monument) is not synonym of safety. You have sometimes declassification, for ex. when the building, the loco is in such point of bad shape. And - even it's in USA - the poor SS United States is really in poor shape.

Too much time has been lost by many facts for Big U and now I do not see a proper solution to bring her back a new life. Rust everywhere, structure uncontrolled since 90's, interior devastated. Well, it's not a good affair even if this is a part of your historical patrimony. I do not believe in a very generous philanthropist (or a group) able to manage a such enterprise. We have in France an important historical patrimony and we are now mostly unable to insure the future (Versailles Gallery was resorted mostly by philanthropy)

So maybe scraping is the most descent solution, much more descent than sinking under tow or at berth.


Posts: 141 | From: Paris | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Lubber
First Class Passenger
Member # 13710

posted 03-03-2010 09:50 AM      Profile for Lubber     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's not looking good. My representative is Eric Cantor, and he's obviously not in favor of anything like this. Hopefully Jim Webb might, but I'm not holding out hope that copying and pasting the Facebook thing into his email will do much. There would have to be some stimulus/make-work thing attached to make it politically viable.

I know this is a very unpopular position to take, but IMHO is the most reasonable one under the circumstances: sink the big U as a diving wreck near the Florida Keys, right next to the Vandenberg. Consider the following points:

• The ship remains intact and accessible to the public without requiring both a vast cash outlay for refurbishment and a viable business plan, neither of which appear to be feasible right now (and, of course, we can't understate the urgency of right now). Remember, a hotel plan that falls through will only delay scrapping, not thwart it. Even Queen Mary's future is precarious to a degree.

• Asbestos has already been removed, unlike the Vandenberg. This frees up money to make a more attractive purchase offer.

• The ship can be left in her original condition- not a mutation of her original state, like the Norway- and her engine room (her greatest asset) can be open to advanced divers.

• We most likely can't afford to convert the SSUS into a hotel and make it viable, but we still need a national landmark and the ecological benefits of another artificial reef much more than Alang needs scrap steel.

Just putting this out there.


Posts: 241 | From: Land | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged
Rex
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Member # 1113

posted 03-11-2010 01:52 PM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Someone should do SOMETHING!! It's almost 60 years old.
Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Cambodge
First Class Passenger
Member # 906

posted 03-11-2010 02:51 PM      Profile for Cambodge   Email Cambodge   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I know I posted this about three years ago. But there are new viewers. I would like to see the Conservancy push it front and center from time to time. It was freely admitted, then and now, that this poem was instrumental in saving the "USS Constitution" at at time of similar threat.

"Old Ironsides"
Oliver Wendell Holmes (1809-1894)"

Ay, tear her tattered ensign down!
Long has it waved on high,
And many an eye has danced to see
That banner in the sky;
Beneath it rung the battle shout,
And burst the cannon’s roar; —
The meteor of the ocean air
Shall sweep the clouds no more.

Her deck, once red with heroes’ blood,
Where knelt the vanquished foe,
When winds were hurrying o’er the flood,
And waves were white below,
No more shall feel the victor’s tread,
Or know the conquered knee; —
The harpies of the shore shall pluck
The eagle of the sea!

Oh, better that her shattered hulk
Should sink beneath the wave;
Her thunders shook the mighty deep,
And there should be her grave;
Nail to the mast her holy flag,
Set every threadbare sail,
And give her to the god of storms,
The lightning and the gale1

Holmes' first popular poem was "Old Ironsides," which he wrote in 1830 as a patriotic protest against the decision of the Secretary of Navy to destroy the fighting ship The USS Constitution (popularly known as "Old Ironsides").

His father. Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. was an Associate United States Supreme Court Justice for thirty years and became well known for his legal writings and lectures.

Holmes was known as the leader of the Boston Brahmins, a group of upper-class poets, which included other famous writers such as Henry Wadsworth Longfellow and James Russel Lowell. At eighty-six, Holmes had outlived many of his compatriots, and his death came suddenly in 1894.

About "Old Ironsides:"

"Old Ironsides" is the popular name for the naval ship the USS Constitution. The construction of the ship was authorized by President George Washington in 1794. The Third Congress had previously requested that some action be taken to protect American merchant ships, which were being attacked with increasing frequency by North African and British ships. The steps taken by Congress and the President essentially resulted in the creation of the US Navy. Six ships were designed by naval architect Joshua Humpries and one of the ships, the
Constitution, was to be built in Edmund Hartt’s shipyard in Boston, Masschusetts.

The construction of the Constitution cost 302,700 dollars and 2,000 trees. The construction team included Capt. Samuel Nicholson, Col. George Claghorne and Gen. Henry Jackson. The cannons on the ship were fastened with copper fixtures crafted by a blacksmith named Paul Revere, who is better known for his famous midnight ride. The ship was launched on October 21, 1797 and it has remained a part of the US Navy since, making it the oldest commissioned warship, still afloat, in the world.

Constitution was involved in many battles, inlcuding
several in the War of 1812 and used for training in the Civil War. On August 19th, 1812, the Constitution was engaged in a battle with the British ship HMS Guerriere. It is reported that sometime during the battle, a someone witnessed
a British shot that bounced off the side of the Constitution and exclaimed "Huzzah! Her sides are made of iron!" The Americans emerged from the battle victorious, and since then the ship has been popularly referred to as Old Ironsides.

In 1828, the Constitution was laid up at Boston for
two years. The Navy Yard commanders were surveying all the ships in the yard in order to determine the price to bring the ships into active
commission. Reports began to circulate that the Navy was considering scrapping the Constitution.

There was a public outcry when many heard
that the ship which bore the same name as the document that stood formerican freedom might be destroyed. Oliver Wendell Holmes also heard of the fate that might befall the ship, and he quickly came to the rescue.

He wrote a poem that struck a chord with the patriotic masses of a young America. Old Ironsides was published the next day, and it became wildly popular. In obvious response to the outcry, The Secretary of the Navy soon ordered the ship to be restored and returned to active duty.

Note, the last paragraph, obove.

1. The poem became wildly popular a few days after publication. It was widely published and circulated in the schools. I dare say the kids had some influence on their parents.
2. It generated enoung pressure from the general public to cause intervention, and success at the National Level among politicians of all leanings.
3. The Secretary of the Navy, rapidly got the message and the ruling was rapidly reversed. The ship still sails!!"

The lines could now read,
"The Harpies of Alang shall pluck, the Eagle of the Sea!" it might stir proper emotion:

Would it not have been moving to hear that poem read by Walter Cronkhite?

Would it not be great if the past were to be prologue?

[ 03-11-2010: Message edited by: Cambodge ]

[ 11-16-2010: Message edited by: Cambodge ]


Posts: 2149 | From: St. Michaels MD USA , the town that fooled the British! | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 03-13-2010 04:27 PM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
People have been hoping against hope since her first so-called buyer promised to re-furbish her back in the 80s. Enough is enough. Scrap her already.
Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
SalamisFiloxenia (Tom...)
First Class Passenger
Member # 6702

posted 03-13-2010 06:47 PM      Profile for SalamisFiloxenia (Tom...)   Email SalamisFiloxenia (Tom...)   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
she is at the end of her life, let the old girl go with some grace please, don't bother trying to stop it because it will never happen. as for SSUSPlankOwner, that website looks pretty much like a scam and the certificates from what i can see are not even printed and posted, but just sent to you in email. i expect someone is getting rich from that.
Posts: 338 | From: weston super mare | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
LeBarryboat
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Member # 5308

posted 03-13-2010 09:40 PM      Profile for LeBarryboat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just talked with the broker to the SS United States and he said NCL isn't even considering any further offers. I have a feeling the only "offers" NCL has in front of them are breakers. Whenever NCL allows an "inspection" of the ship to a potential buyer, usually the buyers are taken-back by the terrible condition the ship is currently in, and the vast amount of $$$ it would take to just make her look pretty again on the outside, and of course the maintenance on the ship in her static condition is high as well. I get the feeling NCL has given up and within "weeks" we will hear the word that she has been sold for scrap. I hope it isn't so....I do know of a development project that NCL may consider which will preserve the ship, but at this time it doesn't look good.
Posts: 1955 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
mike sa
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Member # 5957

posted 03-14-2010 12:50 AM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And who can blame them..........well obviously the Aussie idiot will but other sane thinking persons can't.
Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 03-14-2010 09:56 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by LeBarryboat:
I hope it isn't so....I do know of a development project that NCL may consider which will preserve the ship, but at this time it doesn't look good.

NCL lost interest in her when NCL America flopped -well two thirds of it. It became very clear that they would not need an extra American 'Hull'.

Unfortunately, in a recession (or not) no one is going to turn the SS United States into a ship, hotel or museum - just razor blades.


Posts: 19201 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
LeBarryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 5308

posted 03-14-2010 04:17 PM      Profile for LeBarryboat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

Unfortunately, in a recession (or not) no one is going to turn the SS United States into a ship, hotel or museum - just razor blades.

The development project I'm talking about has nothing to do with making her a museum or hotel, or cruise ship.

Except for it's engines, and the exterior, there's nothing left of the ship to make it a museum.


Posts: 1955 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
SalamisFiloxenia (Tom...)
First Class Passenger
Member # 6702

posted 03-14-2010 04:42 PM      Profile for SalamisFiloxenia (Tom...)   Email SalamisFiloxenia (Tom...)   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
barry, before you even start, don't start. It's never going to happen, start saying goodbye to your big blessed ship.
Posts: 338 | From: weston super mare | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 03-14-2010 08:01 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by LeBarryboat:

The development project I'm talking about has nothing to do with making her a museum or hotel, or cruise ship.


Excluding those three options does not leave much: a coral reef, maybe?


Posts: 19201 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
LeBarryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 5308

posted 03-14-2010 08:43 PM      Profile for LeBarryboat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
Excluding those three options does not leave much: a coral reef, maybe?

Malcolm, you could check out my latest talkshow episode where I speak with Mark Perry, the producer for "The Lady In Waiting"...where we talk about the SS United States. At the end of the show, I mention a project....has nothing to do with a coral reef. There is another concept that is unique...we'll see in the next couple weeks or so.

Here's the interview with Mark Perry


Posts: 1955 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
mike sa
First Class Passenger
Member # 5957

posted 03-15-2010 01:03 AM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Replacement for Space Shuttle... ?
Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
steeplechase
First Class Passenger
Member # 4056

posted 03-15-2010 08:39 AM      Profile for steeplechase   Author's Homepage   Email steeplechase   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have already said good bye to SSUS. I wonder if she will be scrapped in Texas? She is clean. Would it not be risky to tow her across the Atlantic? Let's take bets on where she will be beached. ANd amagine the docking fees,towing fees and security fees wasted over the years for nothing. Plus I will get to see her "Sail" back down the Delaware!

[ 03-15-2010: Message edited by: steeplechase ]


Posts: 663 | From: elkton maryland | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Glencoe
First Class Passenger
Member # 1181

posted 03-15-2010 09:25 AM      Profile for Glencoe   Email Glencoe   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry to say it but it looks like the end for the SSUS, in these times I doubt anyone has the financial or political will to save her now, that should have happened twenty years ago.
Posts: 41 | From: St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 03-15-2010 11:57 AM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mike sa:
Replacement for Space Shuttle... ?

This is actually more realistic than most other plans I heard about during the past years.


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
SalamisFiloxenia (Tom...)
First Class Passenger
Member # 6702

posted 03-15-2010 12:42 PM      Profile for SalamisFiloxenia (Tom...)   Email SalamisFiloxenia (Tom...)   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mike sa:
Replacement for Space Shuttle... ?

I think you've ruined barrys big surprise!!!


Posts: 338 | From: weston super mare | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
dmwnc1
Cruise Director
Member # 3785

posted 03-15-2010 01:29 PM      Profile for dmwnc1   Email dmwnc1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
She belongs at the bottom of the ocean off of Key West as a divers wreck. NCL should sell it to the SSUS Conservatory group for One Dollar and let them clean her up and send her on her way to the ocean floor. It would be quiet a spectacle.
Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 03-15-2010 02:49 PM      Profile for Vaccaro   Author's Homepage   Email Vaccaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If I remember correctly, a few months ago Barry talked about a project turning her (or a part of her) into a storage space somewhere or something like that.
If so, then I don't see the interest for some firms or administration to use her as such, with so much risk and maintainance upkeep anyway. Not to mention accesses and layout of a ship, even if "empty" are not the best suited for that role.

Now perhaps it is a completely other project he's speaking about. But that will never happen, like all the other "unique" projects he said he has talked about with the "right persons" during the past 10 years or so.

Anyway, I'm really sad if she goes to breakers. But what else is possible. I afraid nothing at all.

[ 03-15-2010: Message edited by: Vaccaro ]


Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 03-15-2010 10:39 PM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's not sad - it's a part of life.
Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Frosty 4
First Class Passenger
Member # 5826

posted 03-16-2010 12:55 PM      Profile for Frosty 4   Email Frosty 4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Trying to keep OLD ships around with hopes of restoring them to their time of glory is expensive and foolish. There has been too much said already about Norway , SSUS. and others.
Alang or other scrapers await!! IMHO.
No flack please.
F4

Posts: 2531 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lubber
First Class Passenger
Member # 13710

posted 03-16-2010 02:08 PM      Profile for Lubber     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Vaccaro:
If I remember correctly, a few months ago Barry talked about a project turning her (or a part of her) into a storage space somewhere or something like that.
If so, then I don't see the interest for some firms or administration to use her as such, with so much risk and maintainance upkeep anyway. Not to mention accesses and layout of a ship, even if "empty" are not the best suited for that role.

Here in the US, most storage facilities usually end up rented out to rock bands in need of cheap rehearsal space-- rock bands sign longer leases than moving families or divorcées who only need storage for a month or two.

Imagine the novelty: "Duuuude, we're practicing on a ship!"

Seriously, I don't see what's wrong with considering the coral reef option. If that's not feasible, then hang it up already.


Posts: 241 | From: Land | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged
viking109
First Class Passenger
Member # 6280

posted 03-16-2010 03:16 PM      Profile for viking109        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rex:
It's not sad - it's a part of life.

It's only sad in that the ship, technical masterpiece that it was, had such a short working life. Could have been different if US governments had allowed sale when the interest was there


Posts: 499 | From: southampton | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged

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Description: What a charming little chain of islands. Walk on pink sand beaches. Swim and snorkel in turquoise seas. Take in the historical sights. They're stoically British and very quaint. Or explore the coral reefs. You can get to them by boat or propelled by fins. You pick. Freestyle Cruising doesn't tell you where to go or what to do. Sure, you can plan ahead, or decide once onboard. After all, it's your vacation. There are no deadlines or must do's.
Holland America - Eastern Caribbean from From $599 per person
Description: White sand, black sand, talcum soft or shell strewn, the beaches of the Eastern Caribbean invite you to swim, snorkel or simply relax. For shoppers, there's duty-free St. Thomas, the Straw Market in Nassau, French perfume and Dutch chocolates on St. Maarten. For history buffs, the fascinating fusion of Caribbean, Latin and European cultures. For everyone, a day spent on HAL's award winning private island Half Moon Cay.
Celebrity - 7-Night Western Mediterranean from $549 per person
Description: For centuries people have traveled to Europe to see magnificent ruins, art treasures and natural wonders. And the best way to do so is by cruise ship. Think of it - you pack and unpack only once. No wasted time searching for hotels and negotiating train stations. Instead, you arrive at romantic ports of call relaxed, refreshed and ready to take on the world.
Holland America - Alaska from From $499 per person
Description: Sail between Vancouver and Seward, departing Sundays on the ms Statendam or ms Volendam and enjoy towering mountains, actively calving glaciers and pristine wildlife habitat. Glacier Bay and College Fjord offer two completely different glacier-viewing experiences.

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