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» Cruise Talk   » Ocean Liners and Classic Cruise Ships   » What if the SS Rotterdam was turned into the Big Red Boat IV?

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Author Topic: What if the SS Rotterdam was turned into the Big Red Boat IV?
Redlinekid2
First Class Passenger
Member # 7157

posted 10-02-2007 09:40 AM      Profile for Redlinekid2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The moment when the SS Rotterdam was transfered to Premier Cruises, I was concerned that they would alter this delightful vessel. I always felt that the ship should have been made into a floating hotel/musuem like the Queen Mary back in 1997. How times have changed for the better.

By contrast, if Premier Cruises had gotten the SS Canberra(instead if Edinburg Castle) and the SS Rotterdam, would the SS Canberra still be around? The Canberra could have made an excellent attraction in Southampton. What are your thoughts?


Posts: 300 | From: Florida | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 10-02-2007 09:50 AM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Redlinekid2:
The moment when the SS Rotterdam was transfered to Premier Cruises, I was concerned that they would alter this delightful vessel. I always felt that the ship should have been made into a floating hotel/musuem like the Queen Mary back in 1997. How times have changed for the better.

By contrast, if Premier Cruises had gotten the SS Canberra(instead if Edinburg Castle) and the SS Rotterdam, would the SS Canberra still be around? The Canberra could have made an excellent attraction in Southampton. What are your thoughts?


Canberra had way too many cabins without private bath. The court cabins are a neat idea. To work as a hotel the cabins would have to be combined from 3-2 and private baths installed.

Too much of the original Canberra furnishings were gone and replaced with bland hotel furniture.

She needed a lot more work than the Rembrandterdam.

Premier was a total mess in the last 18 months although I had good experiences with them.

What they would have done with the Canberra?
If Premier went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.

www.sscanberra.com


Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
lasuvidaboy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4527

posted 10-02-2007 12:10 PM      Profile for lasuvidaboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Canberra was worn out and Premier was not interested. Also Canberra's interior decor was no longer that fabulous late 1950s modern but instead resembled a 1980s airport Hilton. Her public rooms could have been restored but what would an operator do w/all those small former tourist cabins w/out facilities?
Posts: 7654 | From: Hollywood Hills/L.A. | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Redlinekid2
First Class Passenger
Member # 7157

posted 10-02-2007 12:18 PM      Profile for Redlinekid2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Your certainly right that the SS Canberra needed a lot of work in order to do well as a hotel ship. The SS Norway was in the same situation as well. Much of the original SS France was gone from the ship, and would have needed a lot of money to restore her back to that configuation.

Other well known vessels that would need a lot of renovations include the QE2 and the Kungsholm, since these ships are in very good hands. However, the one vessel that will be the ultimate task to renovate is the SS United States.


Posts: 300 | From: Florida | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
lasuvidaboy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4527

posted 10-02-2007 07:14 PM      Profile for lasuvidaboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Redlinekid2:

Other well known vessels that would need a lot of renovations include the QE2 and the Kungsholm,


I thing these two (QE2 and Oceanic II) could easily sail another 5-10 years (w/general upkeep) while Canberra was outdated and on her last legs mechanically when withdrawn from service.


Posts: 7654 | From: Hollywood Hills/L.A. | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 10-02-2007 07:32 PM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:

I thing these two (QE2 and Oceanic II) could easily sail another 5-10 years (w/general upkeep) while Canberra was outdated and on her last legs mechanically when withdrawn from service.


QE2 has had several major breakdowns in the past 3 years, one just a few weeks ago. Her plumbing is tempermental, and her A/C was never right from the beginning. QE2's bridge wings have major stress cracks. [source: William Flayhart]

I used to be totally anti-scrapping, but after the SSNorway debacle I learned that ships do have a finite life. I still like to see liners preserved, or if there is not much left of the original, and what is there, recent Hilton: adaptive re-use is the answer.
Hotels in dense cities, training ships, floating casinos etc. are a good afterlife.


Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Maasdam
First Class Passenger
Member # 3858

posted 10-02-2007 08:33 PM      Profile for Maasdam   Author's Homepage   Email Maasdam   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cannot say a lot about the Canberra.
But i compare the QE2 with the Rotterdam

Ships Monthly called the QE2 the most successful passenger vessel ever on all accounts. Now what a successful life she have on the design and technical point of view. Manny overhauls of interior that ruined here beautiful late sixty's interiors, and exterior complete with new funnel. And even a new power plant turning here from steam ship to motor ship. She regular have a blackout and other technical problems.

Compared to the Rotterdam who have sailed almost technically trouble free and with 90% of here original interiors intact.

Fact that even after 37 years HAL service she was able to speed up to 26 knots (some reports suggest 28 knots) And that with 37 years old power plant.
fact she sailed longer 41 years included here Premier years. Then QE2 39 years.

Believe the Rotterdam was the most successful of the 3 liners named. And on design (soft and hard ware) And equal in popularity among passengers compared with QE2.

Greetings Ben.

[ 10-02-2007: Message edited by: Maasdam ]


Posts: 4695 | From: Rotterdam home of the tss. Rotterdam. | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 10-02-2007 08:41 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Maasdam:
[...]
Ships Monthly called the QE2 the most successful passenger vessel ever on all accounts. Now what a successful life she have on the design and technical point of view. [...]

It's somehow circular reasoning. More than usually was tolerated and invested due to her prominence - and her name has certainly a lot to do with that. It's more that she is still around because she is famous than that she is famous because she is still around.


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
feargus
First Class Passenger
Member # 3982

posted 10-05-2007 01:16 AM      Profile for feargus   Email feargus   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As someone who was an engineer, hotel engineer and enviro engineer on Canberra in her final years, then transfered companies to work on Edinburgh Castle with lowline and big red boat II with premier. I would say that Canberra was certainly not on her last legs mechanically.

I was onboard all the ex premier ships in the Bahamas as part of the group of people taking care of them during the lay up.

Edinburgh Castle when bought by lowline was a complete mess. things improved only slightly in the lowline years. obviously not enough!
lots of money was spent on the Eddie / BRBII by Cammels but to little too late really. By the time she left the Bahamas to scrap her engineroom was actually better than it had been for years. Also the upstairs mechanics were fairly good. she was killed by reputation and high fuel costs.

the problems she had during the premier days were mainly due to human error. one generator destroyed as the overspeed trip was by-passed during starting. air con, during the refit in the Bahamas before premier service most of the aircon chillers were replaced. after this work the whole brine system was acid cleaned. the mixture was too strong. the acid made its way back to the air con condensers making a mess of the tubes. a valve was left open by mistake. following inspection it was recommended to re-tube both but it was never done. in a very short time the condenser tubes failed knocking out the ships acon system.
oil spill Rhode Island - valves left open during cleaning of galley drains.
black out of Rhode Island - wrong anchoring position.
delay in service for Premier, - boiler feed pump started with suction valve closed and over-speed by-passed.
Shaft bearing problems on stbd shaft, miss alignment during repair in the UK.

Rotterdam / Rembrandt was in ok condition certainly not as god as some people claim.

BRB3 was in good order mechanically as was Oceanic.

Canberra not being sold on for further trading was due to the already mentioned cabin / bathroom problem, the complexity of the engine room by normal steam ship standards, fuel consumption was very high, manning costs very high and conditions set by P&O at the time.
I was onboard when Premier inspected Canberra and they were very impressed with the overall condition of the machinery spaces.


Posts: 249 | From: Halifax,Canada / Abu Dhabi, UAE | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 10-05-2007 03:38 AM      Profile for Vaccaro   Author's Homepage   Email Vaccaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for that post Feargus!
I recall you had already mentioned here at CruiseTalk few years ago your presence there during the lay up but I don't recall such a comprehensive post about the condition of the Premier' ships then.

Very informative and interesting (espacially because I like all the ships mentioned too).


Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99  |  IP: Logged
Linerrich
First Class Passenger
Member # 4864

posted 10-05-2007 08:03 AM      Profile for Linerrich   Email Linerrich   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's an image from the last Big Red Boat brochure (2000) :

Rich


Posts: 4210 | From: Miami, FL | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 10-05-2007 08:23 AM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ewww, disgusting!!

quote:
Originally posted by Linerrich:
Here's an image from the last Big Red Boat brochure (2000) :

Rich



Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Redlinekid2
First Class Passenger
Member # 7157

posted 10-06-2007 12:33 AM      Profile for Redlinekid2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This was the reason why I feared for the SS Rotterdam's future with Premier Cruises. They might have destroyed the Dutch interiors of the SS Rotterdam as we know it today.

The last thing the world needs is another SS France/SS United States National identity ripped out from the ship.

I am simply glad to see the SS Rotterdam in one piece internally. If it costs 80 Million Euros to restore/renovate a ship that still has over 90% of its original build, then the cost will certainly be higher on the QE2 and the MS Kungsholm when they follow suit.


Posts: 300 | From: Florida | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Maasdam
First Class Passenger
Member # 3858

posted 10-06-2007 07:36 AM      Profile for Maasdam   Author's Homepage   Email Maasdam   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Redlinekid2:
This was the reason why I feared for the SS Rotterdam's future with Premier Cruises. They might have destroyed the Dutch interiors of the SS Rotterdam as we know it today.

The last thing the world needs is another SS France/SS United States National identity ripped out from the ship.

I am simply glad to see the SS Rotterdam in one piece internally. If it costs 80 Million Euros to restore/renovate a ship that still has over 90% of its original build, then the cost will certainly be higher on the QE2 and the MS Kungsholm when they follow suit.


I remember that when Premier made there plans fore the Rembrandt public. Manny of the Rembrandt passengers from who the majority came with the ship from HAL. begun to sent Premier angry letters and e-mails but also they called theme to let theme know how there feelings about the upcoming rebuilding to Big Red Boat 2. beside that manny in the cruise industry and on cruise boards where opposite the plans.

Afraid to loose passengers Premier wisely decided not to go ahead with the rebuilding program.

Greetings Ben.


Posts: 4695 | From: Rotterdam home of the tss. Rotterdam. | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged

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