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Seems a little off-putting for a company that markets itself on it's proud British heritage. Once again I would say the bean counters have won. We certainly know who really runs Carnival Corp. brands.
Ernie
quote:Originally posted by eroller:itage. Once again I would say the bean counters have won. We certainly know who really runs Carnival Corp. brands.Ernie
Yup -- the stockholders.
quote:Originally posted by SSTRAVELER:Yup -- the stockholders.
The stockholders demand increasing profitablitiy and ROI, but they don't actually run the company. It's those lovely accountants that actually come up with the creative ways to meet stockholder demands, and I would say they are the true CEO's of Cunard and other brands. Some more than others.
Rich
Carnival may look good from 1/4 to 1/4 but hurting themselves in the long run.
So now comes the re-registry, which is still quasi-British, the ships will still fly the Red Duster. At least they won't be registered in Panama or Liberia!
quote:Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
Does the re-registry HAVE to read "Hamilton"? Southampton is a Parish of Bermuda, so maybe they could finnagle things to keep the same wordage?
They will then be able to conduct weddings on board which can not be done when a ship is registered in the UK.
Once again Carnival group are more interested in profits than a shipping companies history.
With now being a Carnival shareholder, as a result of having shares from the days of P & O being a UK owned company, I am disgusted with this change !
.
[ 10-19-2011: Message edited by: Neil - Ex P. & O. S. N. Company. ]
quote:Originally posted by Neil - Ex P. & O. S. N. Company.:They will then be able to conduct weddings on board which can not be done when a ship is registered in the UK.Once again Carnival group are more interested in profits than a shipping companies history.[ 10-19-2011: Message edited by: Neil - Ex P. & O. S. N. Company. ]
But that's not the real reason for the change; the labour laws in the UK are changing in that any British-registered ships will have to pay the same wages on board as land-based employees make. So it's a switch to a flag of convenience, like every other line out there has done for decades.
One by-product of the change is the ability to offer weddings on board, and that's the public face that Cunard is putting on this thing.
I hope that Cunard does'nt simply weld a metal plate over Southampton w/Hamilton printed on it.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:Cunard has announced it will reflag it's three ship fleet from Southampton to Bermuda. It's a cost saving move obviously but it will also enable Cunard to perform weddings at sea like sister brands P&O and Princess....
From Cunard:
19 October 2011 - Cunard Line, one of the oldest names in passenger shipping operating the youngest fleet at sea, will offer its guests the opportunity to be married on board for the first time in its 171-year history. Beginning Spring 2012, a luxury cruise aboardQueen Mary 2, Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth will offer a selection of wedding packages, commencing after the World Voyages have been completed. The Weddings programme will go on sale in December 2011, with expanded details available soon.
“Most of our competitors have been offering increasingly popular and lucrative ‘Weddings at Sea’ programmes, and these are now very big business in the cruise industry,” said Peter Shanks, president of Cunard Line. “We receive a lot of enquiries about the possibility of being married on one of our ships – particularly during our regularly scheduled Transatlantic Crossings on our flagship Queen Mary 2, which no other company can offer.”
Get the facts right !
Cunard would only have had to pay the UK minimum wage to a lot of their staff if the ships remain registered in the UK.
Senior staff may be paid more.
From the 1st October 2011, this is £6.08p an hour for those over 21 years of age, and less for younger workers !
It is only since cruise companies have started employing staff on consession rates, and registered their ships abroad, that the crew are paid a pittance for working long hours !
Before this UK registered ships crews were paid approved full rates of pay plus overtime..
We still have some of the smaller UK cruising companies with ships registered in the UK, and they still make a profit, so it is just greed by the ships owners which is causing this change.
This was just posted on Facebook by Cunard:
quote:Dear Cunarders – We hear you. We appreciate everyone’s passion on this subject because we too are very passionate about Cunard. We value tradition and history and take our responsibility as stewards of our 171 year old brand seriously. We remain quintessentially British in all that we do. Our Head Office remains in Southampton, England. We will continue to fly the Red Ensign with pride and we will continue to serve our very diverse mix of international guests with the British signatures you all rightly expect. In our history we have flown many flags - of the 250 ships in our fleet only eight have carried the name Southampton on the stern. The name on the stern will not change the experience we deliver. We firmly believe offering weddings at sea will be very popular and support our continued success.We understand people's concern but we remain the Cunard that so many of you, as valued guests, have enjoyed over many years. We will never forget our proud British Heritage and we will continue to deliver our British signatures to our guests each and every day. We Are Cunard!
We remain quintessentially British in all that we do. Our Head Office remains in Southampton, England. We will continue to fly the Red Ensign with pride and we will continue to serve our very diverse mix of international guests with the British signatures you all rightly expect.
In our history we have flown many flags - of the 250 ships in our fleet only eight have carried the name Southampton on the stern. The name on the stern will not change the experience we deliver.
We firmly believe offering weddings at sea will be very popular and support our continued success.
We understand people's concern but we remain the Cunard that so many of you, as valued guests, have enjoyed over many years. We will never forget our proud British Heritage and we will continue to deliver our British signatures to our guests each and every day.
We Are Cunard!
quote:Originally posted by Neil - Ex P. & O. S. N. Company.:Get the facts right !Cunard would only have had to pay the UK minimum wage to a lot of their staff if the ships remain registered in the UK..
Cunard would only have had to pay the UK minimum wage to a lot of their staff if the ships remain registered in the UK..
My understanding is that it is only applicable in respect of crew members residing in an EU member state.
Cunard are only stating weddings in their press releases as the majority of their passengers would not understand anything else.
Pam
[ 10-19-2011: Message edited by: PamM ]
quote:Originally posted by Cunard Fan:While I can understand and appreciate the reasons behind this move, I still cannot help but be saddened and angered over it. Bermuda might be British but its just not the same. I wish they would at least leave the QM2 as a UK registered ship.
While I'm disappointed with the registry change, I'm more disappointed with Cunard's lack of transparency to their "valued guests". Had Cunard just been forthcoming, and stated that due to changes in European Legislation which would cause financial hardship, a fleet registry change was necessary, I would have been much more understanding.
Instead they decided to cover up the real reasons with this farce of onboard weddings. It's truly insulting to my intelligence. If they are truly serious about these weddings creating so much additional business, lets see if they add a wedding chapel to QM2 during her November refit. It would be the perfect opportunity but somehow I doubt that will happen. I also seriously doubt there are many couples just dying to get married on QM2 mid-Atlantic. Most people that sail Cunard are well past the 'just getting married' stage of their lives. Cunard is not Princess or P&O where onboard weddings are popular and there are wedding chapels onboard. They are more mainstream lines. Different demographic.
The QUEEN ELIZABETH is scheduled to register 24 October, 2011 with the QUEEN VICTORIA on October 27, 2011 and the QUEEN MARY 2 on December 1st, 2011.
(Source: Bermuda Sun)
Arguably P&O (and other 'imperial' lines such as Union Castle) were always more British, in that they served an almost exclusively British and colonial trade. Cunard were always 50% american in customer base.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:While I'm disappointed with the registry change, I'm more disappointed with Cunard's lack of transparency to their "valued guests". Had Cunard just been forthcoming, and stated that due to changes in European Legislation which would cause financial hardship, a fleet registry change was necessary, I would have been much more understanding.Instead they decided to cover up the real reasons with this farce of onboard weddings. It's truly insulting to my intelligence. If they are truly serious about these weddings creating so much additional business, lets see if they add a wedding chapel to QM2 during her November refit. It would be the perfect opportunity but somehow I doubt that will happen. I also seriously doubt there are many couples just dying to get married on QM2 mid-Atlantic. Most people that sail Cunard are well past the 'just getting married' stage of their lives. Cunard is not Princess or P&O where onboard weddings are popular and there are wedding chapels onboard. They are more mainstream lines. Different demographic.Ernie
Yep Ernie, in the end it's just all about money and keeping investors and shareholders happy. I suppose Carnival headquarters can't be bothered if QM2 is registered in Southampton or Monrovia, as long as the revenues are fine.
I imagine Peter Shanks more of a hardliner than his predecessors. He also made it perfectly clear he was happy to have gotten rid of the QE2. The Ryanair style extra charges have also increased a lot (compared to very low fares to lure people on board). And they seem to be cutting a lot of costs on maintenance and passenger services.
Probably something in this day and age we need to live with, however this "British Ocean Liner and Weddings at sea" spin is given me a bitter after taste in my mouth
They know at head office it will blow over and it'll be just a question of time when no one bothers anymore.......
quote:Originally posted by oslo dutch:They know at head office it will blow over and it'll be just a question of time when no one bothers anymore.......
Quite right Reint and no doubt it will all blow over and life goes on. I'm wondering though, since Cunard is so history driven if this day will be remembered as a day when there was a fundlemental change with the line? I suppose that depends on what happens next, and if Shanks has anymore tricks up his sleeve?
I do have to wonder if Shanks is the least bit concerned about his job? He is not well liked and has made more than a few blunders since taking charge of the line. He has sort of made himself the face of Cunard with his blog, so of course that places him under extra scrutiny which in this circumstance is not a good thing.
So far Cunard has been almost silent about the situation except for one post on Facebook.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:I do have to wonder if Shanks is the least bit concerned about his job? He is not well liked and has made more than a few blunders since taking charge of the line. He has sort of made himself the face of Cunard with his blog, so of course that places him under extra scrutiny which in this circumstance is not a good thing. Ernie
I don't know if you noticed, and maybe I'm reading too much into it, but Cunard's marketing might see a problem with Shanks. There are several Cunard publicity photos of him that are currently being used, in what I believe to be an attempt to soften his image. There's a photo of Shanks with a beautiful golden hair dog that he is down along side petting. Another photo has a smiling Shanks riding a bike for The Prince's Trust. Gosh, how can you not like a guy that rides bikes for charity, pets dogs, and reflags ships to keep the crews' wages as low as possible?
quote:Originally posted by eroller:[...]I'm wondering though, since Cunard is so history driven if this day will be remembered as a day when there was a fundlemental change with the line? [....]
I doubt that. Of course, it is indeed ridiculous at best to see a line selling itself as 'British' changing the flag of their ships. However, these ships were not built in Britain, they are not owned by a British company and the crew is not British while Cunard still successfully manged to position itself as 'traditional' and 'British' at the upper end of the mainstream cruise market. Giving that I doubt that the port of registry plays a role when it comes to selling cruises aboard Cunard ships. The 'fundamental' chang(es) to Cunard happened already - this is just a formality.
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