Anyone heard the same ?

One thing is guaranteed, these newbuilds will be substantially different from EPIC. EPIC will be a one-off which is probably a good thing.

One editor on a cruise site is calling EPIC the most "un-Freestyle" ship ever built, because of the planning and lines involved when you sail on her. Basically the venues are not large enough, and even when you have a reservation you may have to wait in line for up to an hour for a good seat.

Not very "Freestyle" apparently. LOL

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeBarryboat:
but the new ship will have similar arrangement to the Epic only smaller.

---

Lets wait and see. Personally I think any new ships will have a very different arrangement compared to EPIC. You may see many of the same venue names, but I would be willing to bet the venues will be larger, and the flow will be quite different. Being that Meyer Werft built the Jewel Class ships, I would expect to see something more along those lines (larger of course), but with features of EPIC incorporated into them.

I would also be surprised to see the Courtyard area just plopped on top in the front like on EPIC. Perhaps it will return to a more midship location, or if it is up front, be better integrated into the overall design like on the MSC Fantasia Class ships.

I think EPIC has been the pun of too many "ugly" jokes (even from competitors) for a repeat performance.

quote:

---

Originally posted by eroller:
Forgot to mention that I would also be surprised if the "wave" cabins with split bath make it to the new design.

---

Remember that NCL already tried to make a lot of changes to the EPIC design before the ship was even finished. I understand some were successful, and in other cases it was just too late to make the changes.

In the next design, I think we will see certain EPIC features like water slides, a large Villa Courtyard complex, and multiple dining and entertainment venues, but I think that is where the similarities will end. I have a feeling they may have more of a resemblance with the Jewel Class but only time will tell.

Ernie

[ 09-06-2010: Message edited by: eroller ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
Surely, it must be Meyer Werft ?

---

Yes, it's Meyer Werft where Star/NCL have a very strong relationship. Remember that seven of NCL's newbuilds were constructed at Meyer Werft along with SUPERSTAR VIRGO.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
Ernie, have you been on Epic yet?

How are the reviews doing now that real people are paying their hard earned dollars.

---

Yes, I have been on EPIC (just a visit) and posted my impressions and pictures here on CT. It's in the "cruise ships" section.

The reviews for the most part are very mixed. You have the EPIC cheerleaders over on CC that dispute any comment with even a hint of negativity, and you also have the Debbie Downers where everything is horrible.

In the middle are some excellent reviews that point out the very good, but also make note of the many areas where improvement is needed. Some of the areas of opportunity should be relatively easy for NCL to correct, and others not so easy as they are part of the design of the ship. It seems that many of the great reviews are from people who had access to the Courtyard Villa area, which to me comes as no surprise as I felt it was the best part of the ship. There is also a recent editorial post on CM calling EPIC the most "un-Freestyle" ship ever built. That is quite a statement for the newest ship in the fleet that prides itself on doing "whatever, whenever". Personally I think EPIC has been met with marginal success. The ship is not seeing the almost universal praise that we have seen with ships like OASIS OF THE SEAS and CELEBRITY SOLSTICE.

You can read my impressions on the other thread, but in a nutshell after spending the day on EPIC I didn't have much desire to spend a week on her. We actually postponed our EPIC cruise planned for November and rebooked on NIEUW AMSTERDAM instead. I have a hard enough time getting my partner to take a cruise (he doesn't like crowds), and after spending time on EPIC I knew it wasn't his cup of tea. He will be much happier on NIEUW AMSTERDAM and I might be as well. We shall see!

I am intrigued by the possibility of Apollo "floating" NCL, perhaps if they fully owned the line they might look at it differently but then again maybe the whole Epic saga has poisoned their thinking ?

One thing is for certain, Epic will no doubt join the list of previous NCL f*** ups. One does wonder if different decisions had been made whether Carnival would still be number 1 ?

Of course they have made some really good decisions as well unfortunately overshadowed so often by the bad ones.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mike sa:
Well I hope the new ships are more like the Jewel class.

---

The Jewel Class is of course a bit 'small' by modern standards. I guess we can expect a little over 100,000+ gross tons?

Epic is rather like a 'Jewel' class on steroids. However to me, making the cabins so narrow was the worst error. Although they are all very stylish, you can't help getting the feeling that you are in 'economy' class. Even another foot ot two would have helped. They seem to have packed a few too many passengers into the ship.

As for the 'innovative' entertainment, most of the venues are not particularly innovative. Similar entertainment could be provided on just about any ship with multiple venues.

I don't know where to get the figures but I suspect if you added up the volume of theatres, bars etc etc on each Jewel would be much more spacious per pax.

Non extra tarrif or private deck space would probably be the same.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mike sa:

This combined with the hidiously high cost for Epic is why I would list it under their mistakes file.

---

I agree. Considering that EPIC cost about the same as OASIS, there is no comparison. Walking around EPIC, it actually looked like it was built "on the cheap" to me. The quality and attention to detail just didn't seem readily apparent like it is on OASIS.

quote:

---

Originally posted by eroller:
Walking around EPIC, it actually looked like it was built "on the cheap" to me. The quality and attention to detail just didn't seem readily apparent like it is on OASIS.

---

I think the problem is that Epic is QM2 size, but fits up to 1,500 more passengers and loads more dining options. This leaves no room for any 'wow' spaces - every inch is utilised for income generation.

For example there are few double high rooms, and the one that I had hoped would be impressive, the 'Manhattan' room, is somehow not a great as the renderings looked. This coupled with small (narrow) cabins in most grades, even the so called Penthouses, give you a feeling of "economy class".

In contrast, even though Oasis is a 'mass-market' income generation machine too, you somehow feel a bit special wondering through her public spaces, even if you are in the very cheapest cabin.

Anyone know how her bookings are doings? Are her fares still at a similar level to Oasis?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

Anyone know how her bookings are doings? Are her fares still at a similar level to Oasis?

(Ernie, I'm a bit shocked that you are NOT cruising on a major new ship! Are you getting too old for 'Fun' ships? )

---

I think bookings on EPIC are good, and the per diems are high. NCL's excellent marketing is attracting a lot of first time cruisers. The question is, can they retain them after the cruise is over? You really have to deliver on the product to retain loyalty and I'm not sure NCL is quite up to snuff in that regard, especially concerning EPIC. Overall prices on ALLURE and OASIS are substantially higher, and many folks that would naturally consider both EPIC and OASIS/ALLURE end up booking EPIC because the RCI ships are priced out of their budget. Lets face it, OASIS and ALLURE are mass-market products, but priced at premium to upper premium levels. For me personally I think they are worth it if you can afford it (I feel the same way about Disney).

No Malcolm, I'm not too old for "fun ships"! LOL I have no issues cruising on the mass-market lines, but if I can get a better product at the same price I will always choose the better value. Frankly the cruise I had booked on EPIC was not cheap. After seeing the ship I really questioned spending that much money for a 7-day cruise on her. I just didn't see the value and I wasn't blown away by the ship. I'm now sailing on HAL's newest ship, in an aft facing balcony, at 1/2 the cost of what EPIC cost. I also looked at OASIS but the cost was outrages! I'm glad RCI can demand these per diems, but I'm only willing to spend so much on a basic 7-day Caribbean cruise.

quote:

---

I guess we can expect a little over 100,000+ gross tons?

---

Malcolm,

from what I've heard, the newbuilds would likely be in the 135,000 - 140,000 gt range.

Best,

Leadtime for a modern big cruise ship is about 3 years anyway, and guess what? Meyer Werft has two spaces in 2013 (assuming they can continue to build 3 ships a year).

BUT, most likely they will deliver one ship to NCL in 2013, and the other in 2014. Two ships in one year is probably a bit too much for NCL to take in terms of ships to fill and crews to train.

Brgds.
Ralph

[ 09-08-2010: Message edited by: rd77 ]

[ 09-08-2010: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeBarryboat:
When I interviewed the CEO, and I asked him about any new ships, he said if they build another ship the tonnage will be around the size of the Carnival Dream...

---