See Lloyds List Here

It’s now crystal clear what a misjudged project NCLA was: from a small fleet to one ship! Of course the older tonnage would have gone sooner or later, anyway.

A bit off topic: But I recall NCL cited competition from other cruise lines sailing from America’s west coast to Hawaii (employing cheaper non-US staff). I wonder why NCL did not offer this route as well with one of their non-flagged US ships?

[ 04-14-2008: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

What does surprise me is why NCL did not choose to sell the two sisters NORWEGIAN DREAM and NORWEGIAN WIND together, but sent the latter off to become SUPERSTAR AQUARIUS?

PRIDE OF ALOHA was supposed to go to Star (however, it was already remarked recently on this board that Star still had not announced any plans for her). BUT, I would never have expected her to be sold to Pullmantur! They are already received THREE big additional ships this year.

PRIDE OF ALOHA's sale would also be significant in the sense that it would be the first sale of a 70,000+ tonne megaship to a second-tier operator. So far, only a couple of transfers (from one Carnival/RCI brand to another Carnival/RCI brand) have taken place (e.g. CROWN PRINCESS to Arosa, then to Aida and then to P&O Oz, REGAL PRINCESS to Ocean Village, and SOVEREIGN OF THE SEAS to Pullmantur as well).

The sale of DREAM and MAJESTY to Louis was in the works for a while already, although I would not have expected Louis to have the resources to buy BOTH of them... (and apparently, they are still working on the financial side of the deal )

In short, what a way to start the week!

Brgds.
Ralph

[ 04-14-2008: Message edited by: rd77 ]

[ 04-14-2008: Message edited by: Thad ]

I do not however understand Pullmantur buying the POA though, when we are all saying that recession is around the corner, when RCI stock has just gained junk status and the cost of it borrowing has therefore increased, recession will NO DOUBT have an effect on the entire industry especially US based, their competition has decided no more new ships until after etc why are they at RCI buying NCL ships - they should be tranferring the Majesty and Monarch to Pullmantur and redeploying the Visions. They thus reduce capacity and therefore exposure to the US market whilst bolstering the new markets where they can make more profit, they reduce overall their debt and therefore all win.

This makes NO SENSE and may turn out to be a really bad decision. I hope Louis manage to raise the finance for the purchases.

I can't see Pullmantur getting Azamara's ships, they can be earn more in the "deluxe" sector. I can see them going back into Celebrity colours or even moving to the new French brand.

Perhaps then RCI will transfer all the Century class to TUI thus bolstering their new German brand.

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Originally posted by PamM:
The price tag for Pride of Aloha seems a rather hefty one for Pullmantur but I am sure she would be an excellent addition to their fleet.

Pam

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Don't forget that 300 Millions $ is only 200 Millions €...

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Even less than that, actually: at today's London closing price of $1 = €0.6322, $300m = €189,660,000.

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Originally posted by mike sa:
As an afterthought, given that POA was supposed to go to Star and indeed the other 2 were originally stated as going there as well - what is their future now ? A possible sale to a proper cruise line ?, the only one with the money is Carnival or of course Apollo.

It is the one geographic area that Carnival do not really have a hold on, buying Star and turning them into proper cruise ships rather than casinos would give them a valuable leap up the ladder in Asia. Ultimately cruising Italian style is to going to make it there in a big way they will need to establish a new brand.

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One thing the article doesn't make clear is that these ships are owned by Star Cruises, not NCL. This used to be a distinction without a difference, but certainly isn't any more now that Star only owns half of NCL.

The six "older" ships, NORWEGIAN SEA, MAJESTY, DREAM, WIND, CROWN and MARCO POLO were all moved from NCL's ownership to Star's a while back in preparation both for those ships being either sold or transferred to Star, and an IPO or sale of NCL. Star also owns the Orient Lines name and associated intellectual property (trademarks, logo etc.).

Star was basically given PRIDE OF ALOHA under the agreement hammered out between Star and NCL (Apollo) over NCL America. I am sure NCL could have bought her back from Star but it is evident that NCL does not want her.

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Originally posted by dougnewman:
Having known for a while that she was for sale, I was wondering who NORWEGIAN SKY/PRIDE OF ALOHA might be sold to. I couldn't imagine anyone other than Pullmantur that might have both the interest and the money, but I didn't expect RCCL to go ahead with the purchase.

One thing the article doesn't make clear is that these ships are owned by Star Cruises, not NCL. This used to be a distinction without a difference, but certainly isn't any more now that Star only owns half of NCL.

The six "older" ships, NORWEGIAN SEA, MAJESTY, DREAM, WIND, CROWN and MARCO POLO were all moved from NCL's ownership to Star's a while back in preparation both for those ships being either sold or transferred to Star, and an IPO or sale of NCL. Star also owns the Orient Lines name and associated intellectual property (trademarks, logo etc.).

Star was basically given PRIDE OF ALOHA under the agreement hammered out between Star and NCL (Apollo) over NCL America. I am sure NCL could have bought her back from Star but it is evident that NCL does not want her.

Wayne - I do wonder what the future holds for Star Cruises. I think the future for Star certainly does lie in gambling cruises. This makes one wonder if SUPERSTAR VIRGO might come up for sale at some point - in which case, NCL should definitely pick her up.

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I was actually thinking about this too...In the press release stating that Pride of Aloha was leaving the American-fleet for Star Cruises, this comment was stated...

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"Pride of Aloha pioneered the new inter-island market but, as we move forward with Freestyle 2.0 to take our product to the next level across what is already the youngest fleet in the industry, we cannot justify further investment in this ship," said Andy Stuart, NCL's executive vice president of marketing, sales and passenger services. "Withdrawing Pride of Aloha was an extremely difficult but necessary commercial decision; however we see a strong future for the long-term flagship in Hawai'i, Pride of America. In Pride of America, we have created a commercially successful modern U.S. Flag cruise ship home ported in Hawai'i - the first time that has ever been achieved. With Pride of America, we are offering a high quality product, on a world class ship sailing one of the most exciting itineraries available in the industry.

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With the comment about no longer even having POAloha/Sky, as well as 2 other ships to be sold...would it be viable to think that the SuperStar Virgo may transfer to NCL? This would give the company a newer ship, especially since nothing new is coming online for a few years. It would also give NCL a little higher value if Star Cruises decides to Off-Load NCL...

The fact that Star Cruises did not even want to take the ship makes me wonder if they can handle all this extra capacity they originally thought they could handle...Especially with the sale of the Gemini approaching...

Or do you think Apollo would ever consider taking over Star Cruises as well and no-longer have it a subsidiary of NCL

Regards,
Brian

[ 04-14-2008: Message edited by: Beezo ]

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Originally posted by Beezo:
With the comment about no longer even having POAloha/Sky, as well as 2 other ships to be sold...would it be viable to think that the SuperStar Virgo may transfer to NCL? This would give the company a newer ship, especially since nothing new is coming online for a few years. It would also give NCL a little higher value if Star Cruises decides to Off-Load NCL...

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She would make a good addition to the NCL fleet, though.

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Originally posted by Beezo:
Or do you think Apollo would ever consider taking over Star Cruises as well and no-longer have it a subsidiary of NCL

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Originally posted by Beezo:
The fact that Star Cruises did not even want to take the ship makes me wonder if they can handle all this extra capacity they originally thought they could handle...Especially with the sale of the Gemini approaching...

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[ 04-15-2008: Message edited by: Rex ]

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Originally posted by dougnewman:
Star has never been a subsidiary of NCL.

But no, I don't think Apollo would consider buy Star Cruises. I do think Apollo will buy out Star's 50% of NCL, though.

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Whoops, typo!

I completely agree...i think it's just a matter of time until Apollo takes the other 50%. I just wonder if it is going to be sooner rather than later...

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Originally posted by Beezo:

The fact that Star Cruises did not even want to take the ship makes me wonder if they can handle all this extra capacity they originally thought they could handle...Especially with the sale of the Gemini approaching...

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Back to the topic on STAR's ability to fill up the ships, well they have always managed to FILL UP the ships by offering free cruises, to members, travel agent and increasing giving out free cruises voucher along the street, sometimes even shore excursions are complimentary.

The fact that STAR's ships are filled up doesn't mean that there is a cruise (vocation) market. Expect more than 90% passengers are gamblers that sail free. There is not really such a strong region market here in Asia, with Asian as the primary source of passengers, at least here in Hong Kong. Cruising is much more expensive than traditional land-based travelling. For instance, many of the Rhapsody of the Seas cruises ex-HK are still for sale a few days prior to departure, that Royal Caribbean decides not to return to Hong Kong regional cruises market next year. Same for Costa, Classica will not be homeported in Hong Kong, but only sails extended one-way cruises to or from Hong Kong.

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Originally posted by Andy:

What's more, STAR is now reserving higher grade cabins and suites on VIRGO to offer them FREE to the "new money" of PRC gamblers. Are they trying to operate as a normal cruise line? Absolutely not, never.

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I worked for Star Cruises a couple of years ago before I started to work for one of the major US cruise lines.

The Asian market is VERY complicated, it’s not possible to place a US product there and think that it will work.

Casino is the big thing in Asia, the pool deck was always empty for example so it’s not possible to give a “Celebrity experience”.

The big problem with Asia is that you need political contacts for all permissions, the reason that Star withdraw from Thailand was for example problem with authorities.

Star Cruises are the experts on this.