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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Lines   » 30,000 Pledge to Stop Vacationing With Royal Caribbean (Page 1)

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Author Topic: 30,000 Pledge to Stop Vacationing With Royal Caribbean
Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 10-29-2003 10:25 PM      Profile for Waynaro   Email Waynaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

Source: Oceana
Wednesday October 29, 10:03 am ET

WASHINGTON, Oct. 29 /PRNewswire/ -- Oceana today officially launched a national pledge campaign encouraging citizens to tell Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd. (NYSE: RCL - News) that they will not spend their vacation dollars with the company until it ends its practice of dumping inadequately treated sewage into the oceans. Specifically, the pledge calls on Royal Caribbean to upgrade its entire cruise fleet with advanced wastewater treatment technology and submit to
independent, third party monitoring and testing.

With the campaign just underway, Oceana has already gathered more than 30,000 new pledges from citizens across the nation, with a goal of securing at least 100,000 to present to Richard Fain, Chairman and CEO of Royal Caribbean, by early next year. Dana DuBose, Oceana's Cruise
Pollution Campaign Director, described it as the start of a broader effort to educate consumers about Royal Caribbean's disregard for the pristine ocean waters and sealife that it highlights in its
advertising.

"We've heard from angry citizens from one coast to the other," said DuBose. "We're focusing that outrage and showing Royal Caribbean that they will not continue to get away with harming the very oceans on which their profits depend."

"I was planning to check out cruises as an option for a vacation next year, but I won't even consider supporting an industry that destroys the very beauty that enables its operation," said pledge signer Elizabeth Freel of Culver City, California.

Royal Caribbean's 26-ship cruise fleet produces millions of gallons of wastewater every day, which are legally dumped into the ocean. The company has installed advanced wastewater treatment facilities only on their three Alaska-bound ships, Alaska being the only state that requires the advanced systems, but refuses to upgrade the remainder of the fleet.

"Royal Caribbean will be taking a huge gamble if it chooses to ignore this public outcry and continue with business as usual," said Reed Bolton Byrum, a leading corporate governance authority. "A campaign like this can do great damage to a company's reputation, and Royal Caribbean's shareholder value could easily be affected for the worse."

Earlier this year, senior representatives from Oceana and Royal Caribbean discussed a series of cost-effective pollution prevention actions that Royal Caribbean could take, monitored by a third party, to ensure that no raw or inadequately treated sewage is discharged into the ocean. Royal Caribbean ended the talks, however, refusing to
upgrade their fleet even though estimates indicate that treating all of their waste with advanced systems would cost no more than the equivalent of a can of cola per passenger per day over a five-year period.

The pledge campaign kicks-off this week with public events in Chicago, Miami and Portland, Maine. Citizens interested in joining or learning
more about Oceana's campaign are encouraged to call Oceana headquarters toll-free at 1-877-7-OCEANA, or visit the website at www.oceana.org.

Oceana is a non-profit international advocacy organization dedicated to restoring and protecting the world's oceans through policy advocacy, science, law and public education. Founded in 2001, Oceana's constituency includes members and activists from more than 150 countries and territories who are committed to saving the world's
marine environment. Headquartered in Washington, D.C., Oceana has additional offices in key U.S. coastal areas, a South American office in Santiago, Chile, and a European office in Madrid, Spain. For more information, please visit www.Oceana.org.


What do you guys think?

Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Grant
First Class Passenger
Member # 1000

posted 10-29-2003 10:54 PM      Profile for Grant   Email Grant   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Must be slow day in the news for this sort of thing to become an issue. There must be many and significantly more important issues for folks to protest about. Probably 30,000 people that would never cruise anyways. I've got to the point of ignoring such protests, and making sure I never donate to organization such as this!! I've never sailed with Royal Caribbean, but this sort of thing would not cause me any concern at all and would book with no hesitation.
Posts: 834 | From: Victoria, BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 10-30-2003 11:09 AM      Profile for joe at travelpage   Author's Homepage   Email joe at travelpage   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well gosh, Ted Danson is on their board so they must be a top notch organization...

Seriously, I have gotten e-mails from them asking TravelPage.com to promote their cause. I am all for keeping the oceans clean but am not sure why they are only targeting Royal Caribbean. Are they they only cruise line that lacks the high end water treatment systems?

Keep in mind, Royal Caribbean is complying with all of the exising rules and regulations, Oceana just wants them to go beyond what is called for and install better equipment on their fleet.

Joe at TravelPage.com


Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 10-30-2003 12:03 PM      Profile for CGT        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it's a good thing and who cares if "Royal Caribbean is complying with all of the exising rules and regulations"

They should care enough to go beyond them (and the international organization responsible for making the regulations should be lobbied hard to make them stonger). I also think the ENTIRE industry should elevate themselves to a standard higher than the regulations.

However, in the Good 'Ole USA and the Corporate World, the bottom line, the Almighty Dollar (which is capatalism's and Corporate America's *true* God is more important than nature, the environment, even the safety of people's lives (in other examples). Unchecked capitalism is pathetic.

There may be more than one reason why only RC is being targeted - at this point. Maybe they are the most egregious violators, or maybe they are the biggest violator with the biggest name. That's very important: How big is the name of the the company you wish to focus your efforts on? Carnival Corp has a bigger name, but perhaps with it's multitude of brands, would have made the campaign more difficult, because it would be confusing to people on who to boycott. As long as one BIG company is made an example of, that's the main thing to get the point across. RC represents a good combination of Big Name recognition and focusability in the campaign since they consist of just RCCL and Celebrity. Not to mention that their commercials on television are more ubiquitous than any other cruise line, so their Big Name is foremost in the minds of consumers. Why RCCL was targeted is all about the most efficient campaign strategy.

[ 10-30-2003: Message edited by: CGT ]

[ 11-03-2003: Message edited by: joe at travelpage ]


Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 10-30-2003 03:13 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sailing giant vessels through the Ocean in itself is not particularly environmental, be it RCI, Carnival etc. etc. Neither is flying or driving to the port.

I suppose the campaign picks RCI the same way that McDonald’s are blamed for the rest of the world’s problems? (Good news for Burger King and KFC).

Should pressure groups not attempt to force the government to impose strickter regulations? You can hardly expect a business to over comply with legislation?

I wonder if all the sewage from out Cities, expelled into our rivers, always meet the required standards? Are these standards strict enough?

I hope those 30,000 do not drive or fly to thier vacations?

[ 10-31-2003: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 10-30-2003 04:09 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It looks more like a stunt to get publicity for Oceana and keep the money rolling in to support it's leaders lifestyle.
greenpeace is a world leader in that sort of thing.

....peter


Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
ScottQE2
First Class Passenger
Member # 4180

posted 10-30-2003 07:10 PM      Profile for ScottQE2   Author's Homepage   Email ScottQE2   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is a forum for talking about the cruise industry, not a soap box for radicals.

[ 10-31-2003: Message edited by: ScottQE2 ]


Posts: 165 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
petede
First Class Passenger
Member # 3459

posted 10-30-2003 09:08 PM      Profile for petede     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Grant:
Earlier this year, senior representatives from Oceana and Royal Caribbean discussed ....... Royal Caribbean ended the talks.......

The answer on why they are picking on RCI is found above, it seem that they were engaged in "corporate blackmail" and when RCI told them where to go they got spiteful.
CGT, believe or not it is not "American Corporate greed", RCI is a publicly traded company here in the US as well as Norway, so it is not really just an American company. The bottom line is the seas are cleaner now than they have been in a long time, and RCI fleet of "26" ships are really just a small drop in the bucket of the world wide problem.

Posts: 146 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
soundsailor
First Class Passenger
Member # 4164

posted 10-30-2003 09:41 PM      Profile for soundsailor   Email soundsailor   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree with Petede first of all. After Royal Caribbean was fined 27 million they also went on a five year probation with the US authorities. This brought on many changes, including the addition of an Enviromental Officer aboard every ship for inforcing a policy that is known as ABC: Above and beyond compliance. Now I am certain that Royal Caribbean could still go further as well as all other Cruise Lines. A zero discharge policy would be great, but big profits do matter more than the enviroment to most CEO's.

[ 10-30-2003: Message edited by: soundsailor ]


Posts: 150 | From: Toronto, Ont. Canada | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 10-30-2003 10:15 PM      Profile for CGT        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by petede:

CGT, believe or not it is not "American Corporate greed", RCI is a publicly traded company here in the US as well as Norway, so it is not really just an American company.


I did in fact say "Corporate World" and later, "Corporate America/World"

[ 10-30-2003: Message edited by: CGT ]


Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 10-30-2003 10:16 PM      Profile for CGT        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by soundsailor:
A zero discharge policy would be great, but big profits do matter more than the enviroment to most CEO's.

Exactly.


Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Aussie1
First Class Passenger
Member # 25

posted 10-30-2003 10:47 PM      Profile for Aussie1   Email Aussie1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
People of all sorts, backgrounds and creeds work for big business and in my big corporation. I also wonder how many big coastal cities dump out sewage at the same or worse standard than cruise ships do, here in Sydney Australia very little treatment of city sewage occurs, we just send it out mildly treated in a 5 mile long pipe and dump it in the Pacific Ocean. Cruise ships are far cleaner than that!

[ 11-05-2003: Message edited by: joe at travelpage ]


Posts: 493 | From: Sydney,NSW, Australia | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 10-31-2003 02:02 AM      Profile for CGT        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Aussie1:
CGT wrote "especially the "Christian" ones - out there of any nation, who support Corporate America/World and then go Bible thumping in this country or any other talking about "God" and "Faith" and their "Values"- haha that's a good one "

What is this rubbish appearing on Cruisepage for??? To link capitalism, environmental neglect and Christianity is absurd. People of all sorts, backgrounds and creeds work for big business and in my big corporation I say thank God there are some Christians. I also wonder how many big coastal cities dump out sewage at the same or worse standard than cruise ships do, here in Sydney Australia very little treatment of city sewage occurs, we just send it out mildly treated in a 5 mile long pipe and dump it in the Pacific Ocean. Cruise ships are far cleaner than that!


You totally miss the point. First there is what Desirod said. Then also I said in my original post that the Dollar is the "true God" of corporate America/World. Right Wingers tend to support Corporate America/World from top to bottom unconditionally, like the Republicans in this country, and many of them (like our "President") also bible thump about "God". What I was saying is that to the Corporate World they support unconditionally, MONEY is their true God. Like Cheney. And Halliburton. And....

Oh but by the way unchecked capitalism, and environmental neglect DO go hand in hand, and it's the Right Wingers (many who also like to loud mouth about "God" and "Christians" and "Faith") who support Corporate America/World and their policies/agendas.

[ 10-31-2003: Message edited by: CGT ]


Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Aussie1
First Class Passenger
Member # 25

posted 10-31-2003 02:23 AM      Profile for Aussie1   Email Aussie1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
CGT I guess Australia is a far different place from the US if what you say is true but ultimately people are people, no matter what masks they wear or flags they fly. Now back to cruise liners, our common denominator.................................
Posts: 493 | From: Sydney,NSW, Australia | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
soundsailor
First Class Passenger
Member # 4164

posted 10-31-2003 02:58 AM      Profile for soundsailor   Email soundsailor   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If we are going to talk about pollution, lets stick about ships and the ocean. Leave God and land out of it please.
Posts: 150 | From: Toronto, Ont. Canada | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Maasdam
First Class Passenger
Member # 3858

posted 10-31-2003 05:31 AM      Profile for Maasdam   Author's Homepage   Email Maasdam   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CGT:
[qb]I think it's a good thing and who cares if "Royal Caribbean is complying with all of the exising rules and regulations"

They should care enough to go beyond them (and the international organization responsible for making the regulations should be lobbied hard to make them stonger). I also think the ENTIRE industry should elevate themselves to a standard higher than the regulations.

However, in the Good 'Ole USA and the Corporate World, the bottom line, the Almighty Dollar (which is capatalism's and Corporate America's *true* God [and that's for all the right wing conservatives - especially the "Christian" ones - out there of any nation, who support Corporate America/World and then go Bible thumping in this country or any other talking about "God" and "Faith" and their "Values"- haha that's a good one - ala GWB]) is more important than nature, the environment, even the safety of people's lives (in other examples). Unchecked capitalism is pathetic.

There may be more than one reason why only RC is being targeted - at this point. Maybe they are the most egregious violators, or maybe they are the biggest violator with the biggest name. That's very important: How big is the name of the the company you wish to focus your efforts on? Carnival Corp has a bigger name, but perhaps with it's multitude of brands, would have made the campaign more difficult, because it would be confusing to people on who to boycott. As long as one BIG company is made an example of, that's the main thing to get the point across. RC represents a good combination of Big Name recognition and focusability in the campaign since they consist of just RCCL and Celebrity. Not to mention that their commercials on television are more ubiquitous than any other cruise line, so their Big Name is foremost in the minds of consumers. Why RCCL was targeted is all about the most efficient campaign strategy.

[ 10-31-2003: Message edited by: Maasdam ]


Posts: 4695 | From: Rotterdam home of the tss. Rotterdam. | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Maasdam
First Class Passenger
Member # 3858

posted 10-31-2003 06:05 AM      Profile for Maasdam   Author's Homepage   Email Maasdam   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
CGT you have right in your add i believe that there are people in the governement off you beattiful country speak with the bible in there hand and act totaly diffrent from wich the bible alle about. Buth believe me that's not only in USA buth also here in my country the Netherlands. Oure Prime Minister mister Balkenende speaks with the bible in his hand and do things together with his administration totaly diffrent what the bible say.

Big mony is the reason and the infeltration off the industry and financial institiutes is the reason.
The don't look at nature yes the speak about it buth do nothing. The are more interesting in how to make mony over the backs off nature and the man in the street.

No it's not a surprice that RCL and other shipping compagny's are reluctain't fore invest in the last inverioment protecting technic's fore there fleet. Look at the many sea dissasters wich oil tankers around the world. And no restricting new laws are add after this dissasters. Yes there are chance in distances wich ships must be sailed in aprocing and leaving harbours. And one walled thankers are forbidden over a certain times. So protest is in place.

Buth a protest must started also out off passengers off the cruise lines. Ask what youre line do to protect nature. Iff you see things happen what is not good (the Princess case a few years ago) report. Ask questions. We must make it difficult fore them to ignore. I believe that we the passenger are not ask questions about nature and protecting.

I hope that than the will start to invest, because there gast who brings in the dollars, euros, ponds will tell him one day WE DON"T SAIL NO LANGER WTH YOU and that's the ultimate nightmare off the industry.


Posts: 4695 | From: Rotterdam home of the tss. Rotterdam. | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Matts
First Class Passenger
Member # 4120

posted 10-31-2003 07:31 AM      Profile for Matts     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Surely this is a two fold problem. Regulation and the realities of a free market. Regulation because higher standards are necessary then they have to be obeyed by everyone which requires regulation. Free market because if it were in the financial interest of the company to go beyond current regulations then they would. Question is do cruisers want to pay more - however much it might be - for ships that have the zero discharge equipment. When you can do cruises for $299 I suspect not.
In any case I wonder how many of the 30,000 were cruise passengers?

Posts: 829 | From: London, United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
vivavegas
First Class Passenger
Member # 3958

posted 10-31-2003 08:12 AM      Profile for vivavegas   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Best quote to describe the people involved in this group:

""I was planning to check out cruises as an option for a vacation next year, but I won't even consider supporting an industry that destroys the very beauty that enables its operation," said pledge signer Elizabeth Freel of Culver City, California."

I was planning to check out cruises as an option, darn it, lost out on another Carnival Cruiser...

Good greif, RCCL is on the fore-front of the industry developing newer, more efficent ships. If we did everything these people wanted we would be vacationing in our backyard in a tent (no TV as that would require electricity from evil coal burning power plants and no camp fire as that would flare up my neighbors asthma).

Bigger issues in the world to deal with folks, really!

Craig
MKE


Posts: 54 | From: Brookfield, WI | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
ScottQE2
First Class Passenger
Member # 4180

posted 10-31-2003 10:23 AM      Profile for ScottQE2   Author's Homepage   Email ScottQE2   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Perhaps they'd be happier if the entire industry just folded altogether, then this page could go away, and we could all lead dull & unintersting lives like the land lubbers who never understood the maritime industry to begin with.
Posts: 165 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
ScottQE2
First Class Passenger
Member # 4180

posted 10-31-2003 10:24 AM      Profile for ScottQE2   Author's Homepage   Email ScottQE2   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From Aussie 1:

quote:
Now back to cruise liners, our common denominator.................................

Exactly!


Posts: 165 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 10-31-2003 11:10 AM      Profile for CGT        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by vivavegas:

Bigger issues in the world to deal with folks, really!


MKE


Gee I just love it when people make this shortsighted comment.

Ignore the environment, and there will be no World, (or at least a very dirty, horrible, damaged, unhealthy, polluted one not worth living in) to have issues in, in the first place.


Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 10-31-2003 11:41 AM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well CGT, looks like your enviro crowd of tree-huggers aren't too popular in California right now.
Their thick headed shouting is destroying the forests all over the west.
...peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 10-31-2003 12:20 PM      Profile for CGT        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tree hugger eh? I see what kind of person you are, but it's not like I didn't expect it. You're one of those selfish people who cares nothing about the environment and the planet you live on and more about money and as long as things are still "okay" while you are here you could give a rip about what the planet will be like for future generations.

quote:
Originally posted by gohaze:
Well CGT, looks like your enviro crowd of tree-huggers aren't too popular in California right now.
Their thick headed shouting is destroying the forests all over the west.
...peter


Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 10-31-2003 01:18 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well CGT... sorry to disappoint you but I actually did something about pollution from ships, unlike you who only talks about it.
I spent 25 years as a Pollution Prevention Officer, investigated hundreds of cases, and took many ships to court where they were fined.
....peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged

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