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Author Topic: Costa Concordia Listing !
Maru
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posted 01-17-2012 05:28 PM      Profile for Maru     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Does the career of Captain exposes ?

Do you know someone captain career ?


Posts: 248 | From: Japan(Tokyo) | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
nycruiser
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posted 01-17-2012 05:31 PM      Profile for nycruiser   Email nycruiser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just listened to recordings. The captain was a pompus ass.....plain and simple.
Posts: 663 | From: Westchester County, NY | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Johan
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posted 01-17-2012 05:46 PM      Profile for Johan   Email Johan   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ernst:

Wow.

This recording is at least for me a very good explanation why in this very special case it might be understandable why Costa publicly expressed their believe that the captain is to be blamed for what happened. Incredible.

I should add that this actually raises the question what the other officers did if the captain was indeed not aboard anymore or simply incapable of coordinating the evacuation.

[ 01-17-2012: Message edited by: Ernst ]


Indeed, wow, is the only answer.
I had olso misgivings, about directly judging the captain, and the quick denouncement by costa of its Captain, but this is terrible.

IMHO though, there is still a big responsability by Costa to keep this man as captain.

However, can this be a kind of shock ? I know that in wartime it is known that soldiers, and also commanding officers can crumble under the stress.

There has been in England actions to lift the condamnation of soldiers shot as "desertors" because of this kind of shock (I don't know if these were succesful).

Anyhow, this is very shocking to read.

In an Italian newssite, it was added that afterwards, after he went onland instead of going back as he eventually promised the coast guard, he took a taxi.

It is all very sad.


Posts: 1890 | From: Antwerpen, Belgium | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Frosty 4
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posted 01-17-2012 05:54 PM      Profile for Frosty 4   Email Frosty 4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can't believe this!!!!!

After Francesco Schettino, the ship's disgraced captain, was interrogated by prosecutors for three hours Tuesday, a judge in Grosseto, Tuscany, ruled that the captain, who had been detained a few hours after he allegedly abandoned the Concordia, should be released from jail and confined to his home near Naples under house arrest, his lawyer, Bruno Leporatti, told reporters outside the courthouse.

Frosty 4


Posts: 2459 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
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posted 01-17-2012 06:03 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Johan:
[....]
However, can this be a kind of shock ? I know that in wartime it is known that soldiers, and also commanding officers can crumble under the stress.[....]

This also came to my mind - I edited my comment later because I have to admit that my first reaction was biased and did not consider this possibility.

While it seems to be more or less clear at this stage that the captain was highly involved in causing the accident and seemingly failed to carry out his duties during the evacuation the question whether his condition might affect his criminal liability remains (I am not sure whether 'criminal liability' is the correct English term).


Posts: 9715 | From: Baden-Württemberg, Germany - originally from Vienna, Austria | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
DEIx15x8
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posted 01-17-2012 07:30 PM      Profile for DEIx15x8   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here is a more complete transcript of recordings from that night including the one in the video:
quote:

Below are several transcripts of recordings between authorities and the captain published by the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera and translated by CNN's Hada Messia. The first calls came in right after midnight.

Livorno Port Authorities: "Concordia, we ask you if all is OK there."

Concordia: "All is well."

-----------------------

Port authority: "Concordia, We ask you if all is well there."

Concordia: "All is well. It is only a technical failure."

-----------------------

Port authority: "How many people are on board?"

Schettino: "Two-three hundred"

Port authority: "How come so few people? Are you on board?’

Schettino: "No, I’m not on board because the ship is keeling. We’ve abandoned it."

Port authority: "What? You’ve abandoned the ship?"

Schettino: "No. What abandon? I’m here."

-----------------------


Italian Coast Guard Capt. Gregorio De Falco: "Captain. This is De Falco from Livorno."

Schettino: "Commandant, I’ve also alerted the company… I’m being told that there are still passengers on board, apparently they are about one hundred… but I repeat…"

De Falco: "Captain. You are not able to tell me an exact figure? About a hundred people, it seems?

Schettino: "Commandant, I am not able to give you an exact figure because let me explain... while we were evacuating the last passengers… now we are all here with all the officers…"

De Falco: "Where are you? On the lifeboats? All the officers?"

Schettino: "Yes, we are with the second commander…"

De Falco: "Forgive me, but before you were only with a sailor. If the officers managed to get down, it means that they could still move."

Schettino: "Yes...in fact...

De Falco: "Then why don’t they get back on board? To monitor the operation and then they can tell us. Thank you."

Schettino: "No it is not possible…"

De Falco: "Send them on board. Send one person on board to coordinate..."

Schettino: "But I am doing the coordination."

De Falco: "I’m giving you an order captain. You need to send someone on board."

Schettino: "We are going on board to coordinate."

De Falco: "Exactly. You need to get on board to coordinate the evacuation. Is that clear?!"

Schettino: "But we can’t get on board now…the ship is now…(hard to understand)..."

De Falco: "Why did you tell them to get down?"

Schettino: "What do you mean get down? We abandoned the ship…the ship turned ..."

De Falco: "...and with one hundred people on board you abandon the ship? (expletive)"

Schettino: "I did not abandon any ship with 100 people…the ship (hard to understand)...we were catapulted into the water..."

De Falco: We’ll see later what happened. OK? Now tell me everything that takes place. Everything. Get under with the lifeboat (not very clear at this point). Don’t move. Clear?"

Schettino: "Commandant..we are here…we are here..."

-----------------------

Port authority: "You must return on board. Climb the ladder (rope ladder), return to the fore (stem) and coordinate the work."

Schettino does not reply

Port authority: "You must tell us how many people are on board, how many women, how many children. You have to coordinate the rescue operation. Commander, this is an order. Now I’m in charge, you have abandoned ship and now you are going to go to the stem and coordinate the work. There are already dead bodies."

Schettino: "How many?"

Port authority: "You should be the one telling me this…What do you want to do? Do you want to go home?...Now go back on the stem and tell me what to do.."

-----------------------

Italian Coast Guard Capt. Gregorio De Falco: "Listen, this is De Falco from Livorno. Am I speaking with the captain?"

Schettino: "Yes."

Italian Coast Guard Capt. Gregorio De Falco: "Tell me your name."

Schettino: "This is Captain Schettino, commandant."

De Falco: "Listen Schettino, there are people trapped on board. Now, you have to go with your lifeboat and go under the boat stem on the straight side, there is a ladder there."

De Falco: "Get on board on the ship and tell me, you tell me how many people there are."

De Falco: "Clear? I’m recording this conversation, Captain Schettino."

Schettino: "Well then commandant, I need to tell you something."

De Falco: "Speak loudly."

Schettino: "The ship now…I’m here in front of it..."

De Falco: "Captain, speak loudly."

Schettino: "Commandant, at this moment the ship is tilted."

De Falco: "I understand. Listen. There are people who are coming down the stem ladder. You must take that ladder in the opposite direction. Get on board the ship and you tell me how many people are on board, and what do they have. Clear? You tell me if there are children, women, people with special needs. And you tell me how many there are of each category..."

De Falco: "Is that clear?"

De Falco: "Look Schettino, you might have been saved from the sea, but I will make sure you go through a very rough time…I will make sure you go through a lot of trouble. Get on board, damn it."

-----------------------

Schettino: "Commandant, please…"

Port authority: "No...please. No, you get on board. Assure me that you are getting on board."

Schettino: (Hard to understand) "I’m here with the rescuers. I’m here. I’ve not gone anywhere. I’m here."

Port authority: "What are you doing captain?"

Schettino: "I’m here coordinating the rescue."

Port authority: (Speaks over captain): "What are you coordinating there? Go on board and coordinate from there the rescue operation. Are you refusing?"

Schettino: "No, no, I’m not refusing."

Port authority: "You are refusing to go on board? And why are you not going on board?"

Schettino: "I am going because now there is the other motorboat (Lancia) that has stopped now."

Port authority: "You go on board. It is an order. You cannot make any other evaluations. You have declared abandoning ship. Now I’m in charge. You get on board. Is it clear?"

Schettino: "Commandant..."

Port authority over captain: "Are you not listening to me.."

Schettino speaks over Port authority: "I’m going..."

Schettino: "Call me immediately when you get on board. Our rescue officer is there."

Schettino: "Where is your rescue officer?"

Port authority: "My rescue officer is at the stem…Go …(can hear captain saying OK)…There are already bodies, Schettino."

Schettino: "How many dead bodies are there?"

Port authority: "I don’t know. I know of one. I’ve heard of one. You are the one to tell me how many there are. Christ!"

Schettino: "Are you aware that it is dark here and we cannot see anything?"

Port authority: "So? Do you want to go home Schettino? It is dark and you want to go home? Climb the ladder and get on the stem."

Port authority: "...and tell me what can be done, how many people are there, what do they need. Now."

Schettino: "Commandant, we are with the second in command…"

Port authority: "Then both of you climb up. What is his name?"

Schettino: "Dimitris Christidis."

Port authority: "You are your guard. Go on board, now!"

Schettino: "Commandant… I want to go on board, it is just that the other lifeboat here…there are other rescue operators... it has stopped and it is stuck there... now I’ve called other rescue operators..."

Port authority: "It is one hour that you are telling me this. You go on board. On b.o.a.r.d (says the word slowly almost spelling it out). And you immediately tell me how many people there are"

Schettino: "OK."



Posts: 520 | From: Kutztown, PA | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged
bulbousbow
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posted 01-17-2012 08:00 PM      Profile for bulbousbow   Author's Homepage   Email bulbousbow   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You'll find that Cpt. Schettino probably was in deep shock and cracked under pressure. When you add guilt, I would think his reactions to be not atypical. His tone of voice and how he responded in the radio communication with Livorno Port Authority's chief Gregorio de Falco, demonstrated this. I detected this from the cadence in speech and because I know Italian very well.

Maybe cruise lines need to make sure their officers get the right training and are phsycologically
prepared for risk.

My first thought when I saw the first news images back on Saturday (Aussie time) who the captain was and heard that he was a security officer only 4-5 years earlier, was: "Isn't he a bit young, what experience does he have?" and "Has he cracked under pressure?" Would this have happened if the captain was much older?

******

Cheers


Posts: 6866 | From: Adelaide, Australia | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
bulbousbow
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posted 01-17-2012 08:14 PM      Profile for bulbousbow   Author's Homepage   Email bulbousbow   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Must add that I heard the above radio communication on the Italian TV News from TG3 here in Australia this morning at 7:30am local time, and then had a second listen on ABC 24 hour news (Australian Broadcasting Corporation), again in Italian with subtitles, so that viewers could pick up the seriousness of the communication. Unfortunately you will always lose something in translations, transcripts and voiceovers.

******

Cheers


Posts: 6866 | From: Adelaide, Australia | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tim in Fort Lauderdale
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Member # 953

posted 01-17-2012 11:33 PM      Profile for Tim in Fort Lauderdale     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bulbousbow:
You'll find that Cpt. Schettino probably was in deep shock and cracked under pressure. When you add guilt, I would think his reactions to be not atypical. His tone of voice and how he responded in the radio communication with Livorno Port Authority's chief Gregorio de Falco, demonstrated this. I detected this from the cadence in speech and because I know Italian very well.

Maybe cruise lines need to make sure their officers get the right training and are phsycologically
prepared for risk.

My first thought when I saw the first news images back on Saturday (Aussie time) who the captain was and heard that he was a security officer only 4-5 years earlier, was: "Isn't he a bit young, what experience does he have?" and "Has he cracked under pressure?" Would this have happened if the captain was much older?

******

Cheers


A bit young? He is 52 and has been a seafarer his entire life. If he did not have the courage or the leadership ability to handle this situation, he should not have been in command.

Ship's officers train their entire lives for two things:

1) to navigate their ships safely to safeguard their cargo and/or all the lives they are entrusted with.

2) to safely evacuate all of their passengers and crew in an event such as this.

Shock, nothing. When you are in charge, you shake it off and deal with the situation and put ALL lives in front of yours.

It's called Leadership. Courage. Valiance.

This man has brought shame to his entire crew and should be dealt with severly.

Tim


Posts: 1466 | From: Fort Lauderdale, FL | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
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posted 01-18-2012 07:10 AM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tim in Lauderdale,

In your professional opinion, if they got the passengers to the boat stations immediately after the impact, and got them launched upon the first hint of listing, would have been fewer fatalities?

I see on many ships inflatables that to my knowledge deploy and open up upon hitting water. Did this happen with the Concordia?

Lifeboat drills, about 20 I have participated in usually muster within 15 minutes.


Posts: 5692 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Trish
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posted 01-18-2012 07:17 AM      Profile for Trish     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From another angle, what's the point of sending a clearly incompetent/incapable commander back on board? I get the protocol thing, but from what I can gather he would not have been of any benefit to anyone and probably would've caused more havoc. When your 1st and 2nd men are useless who becomes the commander? I think this is what scares me most. I can see the uptick in walkie-talkie sales.......
Posts: 42 | From: Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
viking109
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Member # 6280

posted 01-18-2012 09:08 AM      Profile for viking109        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just seen a report on ITN news that the ship has moved again. Using laser measuring devices, they have determined that the front of the ship moved by 1.5 metres, while the stern only 1 metre. So they suspect the ship may be bending.
Apparently the Captain " fell into a lifeboat". Lucky him. The taxi driver who picked him up in the harbor claimed he asked him where he could buy some new socks! This is reported on the Telegraph website.
You could not make this up.

Posts: 499 | From: southampton | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Salaison
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Member # 4722

posted 01-18-2012 10:30 AM      Profile for Salaison   Email Salaison   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is the design of big cruise ships flawed?
Click

and it has began!


Posts: 434 | From: St. Lucia--The Sleeping Leviathan | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
DAMBROSI2
First Class Passenger
Member # 35998

posted 01-18-2012 12:12 PM      Profile for DAMBROSI2   Email DAMBROSI2   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just to be clear you said
quote:
the ship maybe bending
. Please correct me, but does this mean you're saying it's shifting into a more precarious position? I would think so. All the time I was on cruise ships and we were tied to a pier, I was amazed to see that even though we were secured to the pier; we were bobbing just slightly. However in this case, I'm afraid she's going to sink before they have the opportunity to get the oil out of her.

Posts: 667 | From: Olney, IL, Move to FL 02/2015, Sailed SS NORWAY 3 xs. /May '99 Orig. Reg. | Registered: Aug 2010  |  IP: Logged
dmwnc1
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posted 01-18-2012 02:13 PM      Profile for dmwnc1   Email dmwnc1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Costa Concordia as seen from space by Digital Globe


Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
dmwnc1
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posted 01-18-2012 02:15 PM      Profile for dmwnc1   Email dmwnc1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's in Italian but gives a timeline including great graphics

http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2012/01/18/pop_tragedia.shtml

[ 01-18-2012: Message edited by: dmwnc1 ]


Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
dmwnc1
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posted 01-18-2012 02:23 PM      Profile for dmwnc1   Email dmwnc1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Uncredited picture taken by a Spanish passenger onboard Costa Concordia during one of the lifeboat launches


Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
FL_Cruiser64
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posted 01-18-2012 03:01 PM      Profile for FL_Cruiser64   Email FL_Cruiser64   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My take on this whole thing:
Firstly cruise ships are safe up to the point of mismanagement by the officers. A gash like that you won't get out at sea. Only if you mess around to close to shore.

Secondly the panic occurred when the ship tilted and some of the life boats became useless or could only be used by increased efforts. If an evacuation order would have been issued the ship could have been evacuated safely. Panic occurs when people don't know where to go or what to do or life saving equipment seems to fail.

Finally the captain goofed up in multiple ways.
a) bringing the ship way to close to shore
b) instead of evacuating the ship he made a bone headed attempt to 'swing the ship around' to get closer to shore. What for? To ground a 100,000 plus ton ship? To get a 100 feet closer? A swing like that in the wrong direction has the water rushing into the ship. That obviously occurred and the ship tilted rather quickly.
Stopping the ship, evaluating the damage and an immediate evacuation order should have been issued.
I am absolutely confident that any ship could be evacuated in a timely manner if the evacuation order would have been issued in time. I am also absolutely confident that much less panic would have occurred.
c) a captain never leaves the ship until the last passenger or crew member is safe.

But the behavior of the Captain mirrors my experience with many officers on the Costa Atlantica. I do understand officers and CDs are supposed to mingle with passengers but when I see a captain and his officers spending the majority of the time at the bars and clubs chasing skirts I begin to wonder if the mentality on Costa ships is truly Italian.
I know that Carnival employs Italian crews as well but I have yet to see officers spending more time in bars and clubs than at their designated positions. Same goes for officers of RCI, HAL, Princess. NCL etc

I do admire the rest of the crew though who without guidance and leadership, most of them probably not knowing exactly what was going on either, did the best they could under extreme difficult circumstances.

If there is anything to be learned from this incident:
- cruise ships are safe up to the point of negligence by the officers.
- cruise lines must review their hiring policies to assure that they have officers on their ships who are not using the cruise ship as a playground but rather see it as a work place with responsibility for several thousand people.

My heart goes out to the families and the loved ones of those who died. Death never comes convenient or at the right time but this loss of life is so useless and makes me sick to my stomach.

But I must say that this thread is awesome (if one can use this word in such tragedy). So much information from different parts of the globe.


Posts: 218 | From: Florida | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged
DEIx15x8
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posted 01-18-2012 05:07 PM      Profile for DEIx15x8   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This article has some interesting graphics including a 3D topographic map of the area and some information on the route:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16606405

What's amazing is that Costa confirmed publicly that the route taken in August was approved and based on the tracking it just narrowly missed the rocks she hit on Friday and then passed within 230 meters of land. Costa claims she never came within 500 meters which has been proven as a flat out lie. Now we have to wonder if she was given approval for Friday or not since she attempted to follow the same route.


Posts: 520 | From: Kutztown, PA | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged
FL_Cruiser64
First Class Passenger
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posted 01-18-2012 05:18 PM      Profile for FL_Cruiser64   Email FL_Cruiser64   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DEIx15x8:
This article has some interesting graphics including a 3D topographic map of the area and some information on the route:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16606405

What's amazing is that Costa confirmed publicly that the route taken in August was approved and based on the tracking it just narrowly missed the rocks she hit on Friday and then passed within 230 meters of land. Costa claims she never came within 500 meters which has been proven as a flat out lie. Now we have to wonder if she was given approval for Friday or not since she attempted to follow the same route.


Nice graphic. But if the graphic and the lower right picture is correct than the Concordia couldn't slide any further down. Or am I missing something?


Posts: 218 | From: Florida | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged
FL_Cruiser64
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posted 01-18-2012 05:49 PM      Profile for FL_Cruiser64   Email FL_Cruiser64   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not sure if this has been posted.
Another captain who was onboard the Concordia led the rescue and evacuation efforts. Captain Bosio ended his silence.

Costa Concordia: captain’s actions 'disgraceful’ says cruise ship’s reluctant hero


Posts: 218 | From: Florida | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged
DEIx15x8
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posted 01-18-2012 07:28 PM      Profile for DEIx15x8   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by FL_Cruiser64:
Not sure if this has been posted.
Another captain who was onboard the Concordia led the rescue and evacuation efforts. Captain Bosio ended his silence.

Costa Concordia: captain’s actions 'disgraceful’ says cruise ship’s reluctant hero


wow, that was an interesting read. I'm surprised Costa is not trying to get this out more. It could help stop some of the hate against their line as it shows at least one of their captains understands his duty even when it's his day off.


Posts: 520 | From: Kutztown, PA | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged
Vaccaro
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posted 01-19-2012 02:25 AM      Profile for Vaccaro   Author's Homepage   Email Vaccaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Great post FL_Cruiser64 and agreed.

A sad and tragic event that was, for the persons who died and their families.


Posts: 1192 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99  |  IP: Logged
DAMBROSI2
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posted 01-19-2012 11:52 AM      Profile for DAMBROSI2   Email DAMBROSI2   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That is a very humble Captain that threw in his help at a time when he could've just sat by and done nothing but save himself. It would be nice to hear about him from the media. He is one brave captain and if I were on a cruise; I'd know I'd be safe with him onboard. BTW, BBC News put on their online paper; that Costa is suing Francesco Schettino
Posts: 667 | From: Olney, IL, Move to FL 02/2015, Sailed SS NORWAY 3 xs. /May '99 Orig. Reg. | Registered: Aug 2010  |  IP: Logged
FL_Cruiser64
First Class Passenger
Member # 13706

posted 01-19-2012 02:17 PM      Profile for FL_Cruiser64   Email FL_Cruiser64   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Interesting video of Concordia's track.
Concordia's track

Maybe some of the more experienced spotters and trackers here recognize the software. Is it accurate?


Posts: 218 | From: Florida | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged

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