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Author Topic: Costa Concordia Listing !
eroller
First Class Passenger
Member # 1649

posted 01-14-2012 09:30 AM      Profile for eroller   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ernst:

You also do not seem to be ashamed to continue your "Carnival' bashing in a thread about an accident where people died. The future will tell whether the other incidents with Carnival ships are connected to this incident or not but for now such comments are simply totally out of place.


Who is Carnival bashing? If anything it would be the Fincantieri shipyard that would likely be responsible for a design flaw. You came up with "Carnival bashing" all on your own. Sure shows where you mind is. You seem to think I hate Carnival. My wallet says otherwise. I've just recently returned from CARNIVAL MIRACLE and QM2. Both are Carnival Corp. ships and both were excellent cruises.

If you think it's inappropriate to speculate on the causes of this accident, then I suggest you remove yourself from the Internet. Speculation is happening on this board and every other, and it will continue to happen. It's human nature to want to know what happened, and to reason about possible explanations. Speculating about what happened also does not take away from the fact that lives were lost, which is very unfortunate. When lives are lost in what appears to be a senseless accident, it only makes you want to know what happened even more ... if for no other reason than to prevent something similar from happening. It's the same when a plane crashes. Your heart goes out to the victims but you hope something comes out of it so it doesn't happen again. Is that concept so difficult for you to understand or are you just trying to stir the pot like a typical troll?

Ernie


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
dmwnc1
Cruise Director
Member # 3785

posted 01-14-2012 09:30 AM      Profile for dmwnc1   Email dmwnc1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Another close up picture of that gigantic boulder embedded in her hull


Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Atlcruiser
First Class Passenger
Member # 4586

posted 01-14-2012 09:39 AM      Profile for Atlcruiser   Email Atlcruiser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dmwnc1:
Another close up picture of that gigantic boulder embedded in her hull


Wow. That is some rock in the side of the hull. It will be interesting to find out what actually happened last night. Sad any way that you look at it.


Posts: 916 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
dmwnc1
Cruise Director
Member # 3785

posted 01-14-2012 09:42 AM      Profile for dmwnc1   Email dmwnc1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would truly appreciate it if we could call a truce and go back to our individual corners.

I don't care who started it, who's speculating, who's bashing, or who's an ass. It's free speech whether based in fact or theory. If you don't like it, don't read it.

Most of all certainly quit the name calling and finger jabbing. Most of you are better than that. That means you too Ernst. Quit stoking the fire.

Let's keep in mind the loss of life could have been worse, and the damage to the ship is substantial.


Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
dmwnc1
Cruise Director
Member # 3785

posted 01-14-2012 10:16 AM      Profile for dmwnc1   Email dmwnc1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
eroller
First Class Passenger
Member # 1649

posted 01-14-2012 10:21 AM      Profile for eroller   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dmwnc1:

WOW that is something you don't see everyday. One thing that sort of surprises me is that there is not more debris floating around the ship. I don't even see deck chairs floating around. Perhaps they were last night but have washed away. A good thing is that I don't see an oil slick around the ship. I'm sure the ship was loaded heavy with fuel, so perhaps the fuel tanks were not ruptured?

Ernie


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 01-14-2012 10:26 AM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by eroller:

You don't just oppose an argument. You preach and then instruct people as to what they can and cannot write about ... on an open internet forum no less. [...]
It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. If you have the opposite opinion that is fine too. [...]Also if you are so easily offended I suggest you go elsewhere.[...]

This will be my last reply on that matter.

In the same way you are entitled to express your opinion I am entitled to point out that I think that your manipulative statements are out of place. Period.

Instead of replying in a civilized manner you take it even further implying that I want to hinder you expressing your opinion, you try to insinuate that I am 'preaching' to alleviate my statment and you even suggest 'that I turn this tragedy into a discussion about your personal dislike' - actually you even manage to squeeze in another manipulative statement about the design of Costa Concordia, not to talk about using swearwords ...

Pleae be aware that my comments were definitely NOT about you personally and I am actually apologizing if you understood it this way. However, I do heftily disagree how you mentioned other accidents and how you were referring to new SOLAS regulations since this is very manipulative at best.This has nothing to do with speculating in an appropriate manner - just be aware that people were killed in that accident.

Apologies to everyone else who had to read all that.


Posts: 9692 | From: Baden-Württemberg, Germany - originally from Vienna, Austria | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
dmwnc1
Cruise Director
Member # 3785

posted 01-14-2012 10:37 AM      Profile for dmwnc1   Email dmwnc1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Slideshow of the boulder lodged in her hull

http://firenze.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/01/14/foto/uno_squarcio_di_70_metri-28082517/1/


Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
eroller
First Class Passenger
Member # 1649

posted 01-14-2012 10:52 AM      Profile for eroller   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ernst:

However, I do heftily disagree how you mentioned other accidents and how you were referring to new SOLAS regulations since this is very manipulative at best.This has nothing to do with speculating in an appropriate manner - just be aware that people were killed in that accident.



I personally do not understand how my speculation that there could be a design flaw, or simply wondering if a newer ship that meets the latest SOLAS regulations would have fared better is being "manipulative". These are certainly topics that have already been discussed on a number of boards by a variety of people, and I certainly don't consider them to be manipulative. It's simply people reasoning out the tragedy and trying to come up with possible explanations. Also when did you become the authority of "appropriate speculation". I didn't realize you wrote the book on what is considered appropriate discussion. This goes back to your habit of preaching where it's simply not your place to do so. This is not your message board and you are not the moderator. You don't make the rules.

You also mention repeatidly there was loss of life. Yes I think we all realize that. It's very unfortunate and sad and all the more reason everyone is very interested in how this happened in the first place. At the moment it seems rather senseless. Was it human error, was it mechanical failure? These are questions that need to be answered, more for the victims and families of the victims than anyone. Yes I'm also curious if a ship built under the latest SOLAS regulations would have fared better. What is wrong with that? I would certainly want to know if the new SOLAS regulations are effective and would have achieved their objective of "safe return to port".

For whatever reason you take personal offense whenever I mention anything critical of Carnival. It's ok for other people, but when I do I'm pretty much guaranteed a personal response from you. How could I not take it personally? Frankly you need to get over it. For the record, there are far more critical people than me of Carnival. If you feel I'm overly critical of Carnival it has absolutely NOTHING to do with you, although it seems to bother you immensely. If your objective is to defend Carnival then you have a big job ahead of you. There is "Carnival bashing" going on all over, just like there is a certain degree of bashing regarding every cruise line. I hope you have a lot of time on your hands.

At this point I think everything that can be said has been said.

Ernie


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
linerguy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4289

posted 01-14-2012 10:56 AM      Profile for linerguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This calls to mind, for me anyway, the sinking of the Dresden in 1934...the pilot brought the ship too close to the shore so he could wave to his family. He tried to beach the ship but, as the photo below shows, he didn't make it.

-Russ

[ 01-14-2012: Message edited by: linerguy ]


Posts: 1486 | From: Bright, Indiana | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
eroller
First Class Passenger
Member # 1649

posted 01-14-2012 10:57 AM      Profile for eroller   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dmwnc1:
Slideshow of the boulder lodged in her hull

http://firenze.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/01/14/foto/uno_squarcio_di_70_metri-2808251 7/1/


Interesting photos. Seems odd the stabilizer is extended.

Ernie


Posts: 7046 | From: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
dmwnc1
Cruise Director
Member # 3785

posted 01-14-2012 10:58 AM      Profile for dmwnc1   Email dmwnc1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From Reuters


Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
dmwnc1
Cruise Director
Member # 3785

posted 01-14-2012 11:03 AM      Profile for dmwnc1   Email dmwnc1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by eroller:

Interesting photos. Seems odd the stabilizer is extended.

Ernie


It will be interesting to see a final report as to how the damage occurred so far astern with none amidship and the stabilizer wasn't torn off. Almost as if the ship was in a sharp turn and sideswiped the island.


Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Frosty 4
First Class Passenger
Member # 5826

posted 01-14-2012 11:06 AM      Profile for Frosty 4   Email Frosty 4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I totally agree!!! We will just have to wait and see what the final story is. To speculate is foolish without facts.
Sad neverless..
Frosty 4

Posts: 2450 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
nycruiser
First Class Passenger
Member # 960

posted 01-14-2012 11:08 AM      Profile for nycruiser   Email nycruiser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was just watching CNN and they had said the ship hadn't had the lifeboat drill yet which led to some passenger confusion.

I know that from my Costa Cruise on the Magica in 2005 that they don't do the drill until after they sail. I also realize that people embark in each port on Costa so not all passengers take part in the drill but nevertheless the new pax should be briefed on safety before the ship sails. I also was on a Carnival Miracle cruise back in 04 from NYC. We left NYC at 11pm and they didn't do the drill til the next morning! I was surprised they could do this and even said to my partner back then that this is not right what happens if an emergeny happens over night. I undertsand that they have 24 hours to do the saftey drill but I always thought that was such a foolish rule! The muster drill should be held prior to departure. Period! I hope that this changes.

I also don't like the idea RCI and other lines allow you to not bring the life vest to the drill. While I undertsand the Allure and Oasis have the vests at the muster station due to the amount of people I think it is beneficial to see how to use the lifejacket. I sailed with Princess this summer and they demonstrated and then we had to practice putting on the vest. I have cruised 30 times and still I think it is a good thing to do. I don't put life vests on everyday of my life so it is a good refresher. I just think there is a possibility that the cruise lines and passengers got a tad complacent (incluing myself) and this serves as a rude and sad wake up call.

Whether it be a Carnival corp, RCI or NCL ship....lives were lost and a ship and an industry has been terribly damaged. I hope for the best for all. A sad day...


Posts: 663 | From: Westchester County, NY | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Carlos Fernandez
First Class Passenger
Member # 6432

posted 01-14-2012 11:14 AM      Profile for Carlos Fernandez   Author's Homepage   Email Carlos Fernandez   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just woke up to the sad news, my thoughts go to the passengers and crew on board and their families. It is reported now that there are 3 people confirmed dead and 69 missing, I hope they are ok.

From what I've read the ship lost power soon after hitting the rocks. Why was the ship so close to shore in the first place, did she drift after losing power as a result of the first incident? The reports say the ship was not rapidly evacuated since she was not listing at first, in this case she might have drifted to more shallow waters where she sustained further damage causing the list and eventual capsizing. I'm sure we will receive more information as the day goes on.


Posts: 1325 | From: Miami, Florida (Cruise Capital of the World) | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Atlcruiser
First Class Passenger
Member # 4586

posted 01-14-2012 11:16 AM      Profile for Atlcruiser   Email Atlcruiser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
CNN just interviewed one of the dancers that was on board. I hope that they replay it again as she had something interesting things to say but I want to hear the interview again before commenting on it.

About the Oasis/Allure muster. IMO it's a joke. We were placed in a very crowded dining room where many could not see the monitors to view the ten minute video. They do run it over and over on the in cabin TV's but I wonder if things will change due to this incident?


Posts: 916 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
petede
First Class Passenger
Member # 3459

posted 01-14-2012 11:21 AM      Profile for petede     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I heard about this this morning. How sad! There are many photos that will help with the investigation. It appears to me the ship turned into the rock, or was broached sideways into it. The port stablizer is deployed so the ship was well underway at one point, but it appears undamaged by the rock which indicates to me it wasn't a sideswipe, but hit at a sharp angle. I would like to hear the offical reports and what the black box says what was going on. I wouldn't be surprised if it was human error. What I mean by this is it appears to be a clear and calm night, with a calm sea, so I doubt wind played a part.
The damage admid ship is devastating and looks to be in the area of the engine room, so it's not suprising that there was a catastrophic power failure almost immediately. it's sad to read reports of panic among the passengers, with some jumping into the water.

I wonder why the ship also settled on the side opposite of the damage, I thought solas designs allows a ship to settle on an even keel. I guess the water is very shallow there and rolled over only after contact with the sea bed, negating designs features. I pray for the passengers and victims families and hope we can prevent this from happening again.


Posts: 146 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
DAMBROSI2
First Class Passenger
Member # 35998

posted 01-14-2012 11:57 AM      Profile for DAMBROSI2   Email DAMBROSI2   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's still so incredible to see this.....now for those who are arguing, please STOP IT...This has been a horrible thing to hear and read about and all you want to do is cross swords with each other. This is a disaster, may I remind you if you have a heart; please have respect for one another. If you want to argue, use the other posting area for it.
Posts: 661 | From: Olney, IL, Move to FL 02/2015, Sailed SS NORWAY 3 xs. /May '99 Orig. Reg. | Registered: Aug 2010  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 01-14-2012 12:04 PM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No amount of technology can account for human error. If one considers the 'actuarial' possibility of a cruise ship sinking, and fatalities, It is the safest mode of travelling. One is more likely to get T-boned in a car than any other transportation mode. Since WWII I can only think of a dozen ships that sank or burnt out. Fatalities have been less than 100 or so.
Posts: 5678 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
JohnHJ
First Class Passenger
Member # 30846

posted 01-14-2012 12:14 PM      Profile for JohnHJ   Author's Homepage   Email JohnHJ   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was reading another cruise blog (key word there) stating it is expected the ship will sink another 230 feet. I have tried to find other sources on the internet to back this statement up, but so far have been unsuccessful. Can anyone else find data to support this claim?

It would be interesting to see how steep the bottom drops off from shore and whether or not she is in any peril of slipping further from shore into the depths. I can't imagine her sinking much further and being able to salvage the ship.

One thought on the stabilizer being deployed, yet undamaged. Purely a guess.....but one might imagine the crew deploying the stabilizer after she struck the reef. What a terrible loss of life and tragedy. Hopefully we can (yet again) learn from this. One thing I could see coming are mandatory muster station drills before the ship leaves port, if the accounts are true that the drill wasn't scheduled until late this afternoon.


Posts: 60 | From: Tallahassee, FL | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged
lasuvidaboy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4527

posted 01-14-2012 12:53 PM      Profile for lasuvidaboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
CNN reported that the captain left the ship while passengers were still onboard.
Posts: 7653 | From: Hollywood Hills/L.A. | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
jeffrossatsea
First Class Passenger
Member # 2962

posted 01-14-2012 01:05 PM      Profile for jeffrossatsea   Email jeffrossatsea   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
of course he did!!
Posts: 1052 | From: vancouver | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 01-14-2012 01:19 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
NapoliToday Article

In the above article Captain Francesco Schettino is cited that according to the charts there should not have been any underwater obstacles in the way of Costa Concordia. He also said, that the crew were the last to abandon ship.

[ 01-14-2012: Message edited by: Ernst ]


Posts: 9692 | From: Baden-Württemberg, Germany - originally from Vienna, Austria | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
petede
First Class Passenger
Member # 3459

posted 01-14-2012 01:39 PM      Profile for petede     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
News stories like this make my blood boil!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/most-popular/2012/01/14/costa-cruise-ship-company-has-long-record-of-accidents-and-scandal-115875-23699140/

Let not forget that almost 5,000 people were saved by an island who's population is only 1,500! That port is tiny and can barely fit a ferry. Assuming the accident happened farther out from where she sunk, it would then appear that the captain made a decision to head for the nearest port because the damage was tremendous in order to save his passengers. Hopefully we will find out more in a few days and the truth will stop the media slandering and innuendo going on before the facts come in. If I hear titanic one more time, I'll scream!


Posts: 146 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged

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