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quote:Originally posted by Ernst: You also do not seem to be ashamed to continue your "Carnival' bashing in a thread about an accident where people died. The future will tell whether the other incidents with Carnival ships are connected to this incident or not but for now such comments are simply totally out of place.
You also do not seem to be ashamed to continue your "Carnival' bashing in a thread about an accident where people died. The future will tell whether the other incidents with Carnival ships are connected to this incident or not but for now such comments are simply totally out of place.
Who is Carnival bashing? If anything it would be the Fincantieri shipyard that would likely be responsible for a design flaw. You came up with "Carnival bashing" all on your own. Sure shows where you mind is. You seem to think I hate Carnival. My wallet says otherwise. I've just recently returned from CARNIVAL MIRACLE and QM2. Both are Carnival Corp. ships and both were excellent cruises.
If you think it's inappropriate to speculate on the causes of this accident, then I suggest you remove yourself from the Internet. Speculation is happening on this board and every other, and it will continue to happen. It's human nature to want to know what happened, and to reason about possible explanations. Speculating about what happened also does not take away from the fact that lives were lost, which is very unfortunate. When lives are lost in what appears to be a senseless accident, it only makes you want to know what happened even more ... if for no other reason than to prevent something similar from happening. It's the same when a plane crashes. Your heart goes out to the victims but you hope something comes out of it so it doesn't happen again. Is that concept so difficult for you to understand or are you just trying to stir the pot like a typical troll?
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1:Another close up picture of that gigantic boulder embedded in her hull
Wow. That is some rock in the side of the hull. It will be interesting to find out what actually happened last night. Sad any way that you look at it.
I don't care who started it, who's speculating, who's bashing, or who's an ass. It's free speech whether based in fact or theory. If you don't like it, don't read it.
Most of all certainly quit the name calling and finger jabbing. Most of you are better than that. That means you too Ernst. Quit stoking the fire.
Let's keep in mind the loss of life could have been worse, and the damage to the ship is substantial.
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1:
WOW that is something you don't see everyday. One thing that sort of surprises me is that there is not more debris floating around the ship. I don't even see deck chairs floating around. Perhaps they were last night but have washed away. A good thing is that I don't see an oil slick around the ship. I'm sure the ship was loaded heavy with fuel, so perhaps the fuel tanks were not ruptured?
quote:Originally posted by eroller:You don't just oppose an argument. You preach and then instruct people as to what they can and cannot write about ... on an open internet forum no less. [...]It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. If you have the opposite opinion that is fine too. [...]Also if you are so easily offended I suggest you go elsewhere.[...]
This will be my last reply on that matter.
In the same way you are entitled to express your opinion I am entitled to point out that I think that your manipulative statements are out of place. Period.
Instead of replying in a civilized manner you take it even further implying that I want to hinder you expressing your opinion, you try to insinuate that I am 'preaching' to alleviate my statment and you even suggest 'that I turn this tragedy into a discussion about your personal dislike' - actually you even manage to squeeze in another manipulative statement about the design of Costa Concordia, not to talk about using swearwords ...
Pleae be aware that my comments were definitely NOT about you personally and I am actually apologizing if you understood it this way. However, I do heftily disagree how you mentioned other accidents and how you were referring to new SOLAS regulations since this is very manipulative at best.This has nothing to do with speculating in an appropriate manner - just be aware that people were killed in that accident.
Apologies to everyone else who had to read all that.
quote:Originally posted by Ernst: However, I do heftily disagree how you mentioned other accidents and how you were referring to new SOLAS regulations since this is very manipulative at best.This has nothing to do with speculating in an appropriate manner - just be aware that people were killed in that accident.
However, I do heftily disagree how you mentioned other accidents and how you were referring to new SOLAS regulations since this is very manipulative at best.This has nothing to do with speculating in an appropriate manner - just be aware that people were killed in that accident.
I personally do not understand how my speculation that there could be a design flaw, or simply wondering if a newer ship that meets the latest SOLAS regulations would have fared better is being "manipulative". These are certainly topics that have already been discussed on a number of boards by a variety of people, and I certainly don't consider them to be manipulative. It's simply people reasoning out the tragedy and trying to come up with possible explanations. Also when did you become the authority of "appropriate speculation". I didn't realize you wrote the book on what is considered appropriate discussion. This goes back to your habit of preaching where it's simply not your place to do so. This is not your message board and you are not the moderator. You don't make the rules.
You also mention repeatidly there was loss of life. Yes I think we all realize that. It's very unfortunate and sad and all the more reason everyone is very interested in how this happened in the first place. At the moment it seems rather senseless. Was it human error, was it mechanical failure? These are questions that need to be answered, more for the victims and families of the victims than anyone. Yes I'm also curious if a ship built under the latest SOLAS regulations would have fared better. What is wrong with that? I would certainly want to know if the new SOLAS regulations are effective and would have achieved their objective of "safe return to port".
For whatever reason you take personal offense whenever I mention anything critical of Carnival. It's ok for other people, but when I do I'm pretty much guaranteed a personal response from you. How could I not take it personally? Frankly you need to get over it. For the record, there are far more critical people than me of Carnival. If you feel I'm overly critical of Carnival it has absolutely NOTHING to do with you, although it seems to bother you immensely. If your objective is to defend Carnival then you have a big job ahead of you. There is "Carnival bashing" going on all over, just like there is a certain degree of bashing regarding every cruise line. I hope you have a lot of time on your hands.
At this point I think everything that can be said has been said.
[ 01-14-2012: Message edited by: linerguy ]
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1:Slideshow of the boulder lodged in her hullhttp://firenze.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/01/14/foto/uno_squarcio_di_70_metri-2808251 7/1/
Interesting photos. Seems odd the stabilizer is extended.
quote:Originally posted by eroller:Interesting photos. Seems odd the stabilizer is extended. Ernie
It will be interesting to see a final report as to how the damage occurred so far astern with none amidship and the stabilizer wasn't torn off. Almost as if the ship was in a sharp turn and sideswiped the island.
I know that from my Costa Cruise on the Magica in 2005 that they don't do the drill until after they sail. I also realize that people embark in each port on Costa so not all passengers take part in the drill but nevertheless the new pax should be briefed on safety before the ship sails. I also was on a Carnival Miracle cruise back in 04 from NYC. We left NYC at 11pm and they didn't do the drill til the next morning! I was surprised they could do this and even said to my partner back then that this is not right what happens if an emergeny happens over night. I undertsand that they have 24 hours to do the saftey drill but I always thought that was such a foolish rule! The muster drill should be held prior to departure. Period! I hope that this changes.
I also don't like the idea RCI and other lines allow you to not bring the life vest to the drill. While I undertsand the Allure and Oasis have the vests at the muster station due to the amount of people I think it is beneficial to see how to use the lifejacket. I sailed with Princess this summer and they demonstrated and then we had to practice putting on the vest. I have cruised 30 times and still I think it is a good thing to do. I don't put life vests on everyday of my life so it is a good refresher. I just think there is a possibility that the cruise lines and passengers got a tad complacent (incluing myself) and this serves as a rude and sad wake up call.
Whether it be a Carnival corp, RCI or NCL ship....lives were lost and a ship and an industry has been terribly damaged. I hope for the best for all. A sad day...
From what I've read the ship lost power soon after hitting the rocks. Why was the ship so close to shore in the first place, did she drift after losing power as a result of the first incident? The reports say the ship was not rapidly evacuated since she was not listing at first, in this case she might have drifted to more shallow waters where she sustained further damage causing the list and eventual capsizing. I'm sure we will receive more information as the day goes on.
About the Oasis/Allure muster. IMO it's a joke. We were placed in a very crowded dining room where many could not see the monitors to view the ten minute video. They do run it over and over on the in cabin TV's but I wonder if things will change due to this incident?
I wonder why the ship also settled on the side opposite of the damage, I thought solas designs allows a ship to settle on an even keel. I guess the water is very shallow there and rolled over only after contact with the sea bed, negating designs features. I pray for the passengers and victims families and hope we can prevent this from happening again.
It would be interesting to see how steep the bottom drops off from shore and whether or not she is in any peril of slipping further from shore into the depths. I can't imagine her sinking much further and being able to salvage the ship.
One thought on the stabilizer being deployed, yet undamaged. Purely a guess.....but one might imagine the crew deploying the stabilizer after she struck the reef. What a terrible loss of life and tragedy. Hopefully we can (yet again) learn from this. One thing I could see coming are mandatory muster station drills before the ship leaves port, if the accounts are true that the drill wasn't scheduled until late this afternoon.
In the above article Captain Francesco Schettino is cited that according to the charts there should not have been any underwater obstacles in the way of Costa Concordia. He also said, that the crew were the last to abandon ship.
[ 01-14-2012: Message edited by: Ernst ]
Let not forget that almost 5,000 people were saved by an island who's population is only 1,500! That port is tiny and can barely fit a ferry. Assuming the accident happened farther out from where she sunk, it would then appear that the captain made a decision to head for the nearest port because the damage was tremendous in order to save his passengers. Hopefully we will find out more in a few days and the truth will stop the media slandering and innuendo going on before the facts come in. If I hear titanic one more time, I'll scream!
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