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Back to CONCORDIA, I think they could end up taking the first two or three decks; two for sure and that might help them to right the ship for towing. But for her to be there that long, I have a feeling she could very well be scrapped. It looks like they're not doing anything today either, it appears to be too choppy out there.
If they started the muster and evacuation at 9:50, everyone would have got off the ship.
quote:Originally posted by jetwet1:Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this, I managed to mess up my neck, resulting in a couple of really boring days laying in bed with a neck brace.
quote:What baffles me is that the impact was at 9:40, and people started to evacuate the ship at 11pm. What happened to getting everyone off the ship in a half hour?
I agree, they should have been off immediately and not waiting so long.
There are many ifs, buts, whys.. but in my own mind I am sure there would have been more losses of life had she been abandoned straight away. As it is, although sad for those lost and their families, the numbers are quite low. 17? confirmed dead, 15 still missing - don't forget there were around 4,200 passenger and crew aboard.
Pam
[ 01-30-2012: Message edited by: PamM ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5mbKt7rQkQ
Looks like some wild manuvers to beach her.
Frosty 4
In Defense of Captain Schettino & The Lives He Did Saveby JOHN KONRAD on JANUARY 21, 2012
http://gcaptain.com/in-defense-of-captain-schettino-the-lives-he-did-save/?37994
That's a trenchant article, and it makes some good points. However, I'm not so sue about the constant mention of 'Carnival'. Yes, of course Costa is owned by Carnival, but in practice it's the local operating arm, and does things its own way. For example, the practice of picking up passengers from multiple ports is a feature of the Italian cruise market - MSC do it as well - which isn't replicated elsewhere in the Carnival empire. So I think the suggestion that Mickey Arison should have gone to Italy to take charge is wrong: given the differences of language and culture as well as operating practice, I think the decision to leave it to local Costa management was correct.
I gather that most death occurred after beaching her sideways which made Concordia tip over and trap most of the dead and the missing.
His bonehead maneuver turning around by its starboard anchor just increased the flow of water into the port side gap.
He had plenty of time to do an anchor stop. Concordia dropped its speed from 15 knots down to 4 knots within minutes and then he turned out to sea and made a moronic move turning her around the starboard anchor.
Disaster plans rely on the passengers being somewhat calm and the life boats usable. As I pointed out, lifeboats are designed to operate at some angle but not a position she is in now.
If you have 4000 people and most of the lifeboats are inoperable and no leadership is provided you have panic and panic leads to injury and death. If she would have done an anchor stop (dropping both anchors) at 4 knots the ship would have been empty in less than an hour. That's what the emergency procedures are.
To say that Captain 'Idiot' saved 4000 lives is distraction from:Captain 'Idiot' cauysed 30 people to day and his crew and the many non-crew volunteers in the absence of leader ship saved 4000 lives.
quote:Originally posted by Tom Burke:Yes, of course Costa is owned by Carnival, but in practice it's the local operating arm, and does things its own way. For example, the practice of picking up passengers from multiple ports is a feature of the Italian cruise market - MSC do it as well - which isn't replicated elsewhere in the Carnival empire. [/QB]
Yes, of course Costa is owned by Carnival, but in practice it's the local operating arm, and does things its own way. For example, the practice of picking up passengers from multiple ports is a feature of the Italian cruise market - MSC do it as well - which isn't replicated elsewhere in the Carnival empire. [/QB]
Tom,Carnival Cruise Line also picks up passengers at multiple ports for the Carnival Victory. On Carnival's UK web site you can book the Carnival Victory for a Sunday departure roundtrip San Juan or a Wednesday departure roundtrip Barbados.
quote:Originally posted by FL_Cruiser64:[...] As I pointed out, lifeboats are designed to operate at some angle but not a position she is in now.If you have 4000 people and most of the lifeboats are inoperable [....]
If you have 4000 people and most of the lifeboats are inoperable [....]
While it is indeed not clear at all whether 'beaching' the ship helped or made it worse it is an undeniable fact that even under these circumstances most lifeboats could be deployed and were indeed used during the evacuation.
From: http://www.businessweek.com
quote:Originally posted by Chip:Tom,Carnival Cruise Line also picks up passengers at multiple ports for the Carnival Victory. On Carnival's UK web site you can book the Carnival Victory for a Sunday departure roundtrip San Juan or a Wednesday departure roundtrip Barbados.
Thank you for the information - I wasn't aware of that.
Does anyone know how they work the muster drill on Carnival Victory during these cruises?
quote:Originally posted by Frosty 4:[...]Getting the ship up on it's side like that prevented sinking totally. That said the bridge crew did a great job.[....]
At this time that's not clear at all. Letting her sink on even keel in deeper water a bit further away from the shore (which would not have made much of a difference for the evacuation) could have been the better option. Of course, even after such an incident it might not be easy to determine that - what finally counts is whether the crew on the bridge could have know that (maybe not). The investigation will hopefully find an answer to that but for now it's not clear at all.
quote:Originally posted by Frosty 4:[...]Granted 30 lives appear to be lost out of 4000. We may never know out of the 30 if some were lost on impact or after the severe list happened.
My guess is that this won't be too difficult to determine.
quote:Originally posted by Frosty 4:[...]He was probably in shock after seeing the situation.We await the board of inquiry and the answers.Frosty 4
This could be an explanation for many of the rumors that make the round right now. However, let's not forget that this is not only about the captain - there were many officers aboard and personally I am very interested to learn more about their role in this incident. There is no doubt that a lot went wrong and some of the facts reported are simply shocking. However, at the end of the day a lot of the passengers were evacuated and saved in all that chaos. While the focus is definitely on those who screwed up badly there must have been quite a few people who did the right thing.
quote:Originally posted by DAMBROSI2:I don't have know the answer to your question, but I'm sure they've made changes since CONCORDIA, they were supposed to have been working on 'fleetwide' changes.If you zoom in on CONCORDIA now, they're having bad weather there. Waves appear to be about 5-10 feet. I'm also noticing that the megadrome is opening and closing; part of the megadrome now appears to be drooping.
I looked through my daily grabs and the retractable roof did start to droop. Today as the sun rose you can see that it is now open. The two center panels have been slid open on the lower side. Not sure if they started failing from resting improperly for so long or if the salvage/rescue teams opened it up.
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1:
wow, that's a nice shot, thank's for posting.
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4ncbuHnua6c
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5RSZEXCnrYE www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Y5B8h0dTCXw
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwJ7Ph10vrQ
[ 02-02-2012: Message edited by: dmwnc1 ]
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