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quote:Originally posted by dougnewman:I think HAL lost sight of that c. 1999 when it had Mary Kate and Ashley name one of its ships - ZAANDAM was it?Or maybe right after Carnival bought it when it stupidly commissioned Joe Farcus to design some public rooms for the S-class ships. The last of these are set to go in this latest round of refits for the S-class, mercifully! (Too bad their replacements will all have the incredibly awful name "The Showroom at Sea." What's next - "The Restaurant at Sea," "The Bar at Sea," etc.?)I guess what I'm trying to say is that HAL has lost sight of its core clientele a few times already.
Or maybe right after Carnival bought it when it stupidly commissioned Joe Farcus to design some public rooms for the S-class ships. The last of these are set to go in this latest round of refits for the S-class, mercifully! (Too bad their replacements will all have the incredibly awful name "The Showroom at Sea." What's next - "The Restaurant at Sea," "The Bar at Sea," etc.?)
I guess what I'm trying to say is that HAL has lost sight of its core clientele a few times already.
The Olsen twins where asked to dedicate the ship in light with there new kid/teenager program, the Zaandam was promoted as the family ship. So whats wrong to ask these girls. After that HAL vessels where dedicated in line as is custom in Cruise Land. They even have 2 Royal dedications beside Cunard maybe P&O no other line cane say that.
Farcus indeed designed 2 public rooms, but after the Show lounge a/b Statendam was ready, Big Boss Ted Arrison and the design team fore the vessels quickly decided to change the design. And VFD redone the entire room (some say that the room looks like a bathroom with so much tiles) They also removed him from the Crow's Nest and used the plans by VFD. So This Little mistake was solved before only 1 passenger boarded the vessel.
I really don't like the stern. It's hmm how I put this friendly out of balance, fore this class it reminds me of the previous Westerdam (Costa Europa)The Lanai rooms I like, hope they will use Wooden Doors. The Promenade deck I think will not suffer to much of this addition.
Greetings Ben.
quote:Originally posted by shipcafe:I seriously doubt (and hope) that any changes made on Veendam will come close to what happened to the Carnival Sensation.
Agreed. I can see the Sensation on the Nassau webcam and even at a distance the added balconies look like a freakin mess. Hate the same is going to happen to some more of the Fantasy-class. Crying shame.
Also the loyal following who dont like what HAL is doing with extra cabins, will they eventually go to more upmarket luxury lines to get what HAL cant offer?
I dont have a problem with HAL, but I am in my 20's and have always seen it as a cruise line that caters predominately to the much older generation. Due to those impressions I am unlikely to sail on their ships.
This is probably a stupid question but do any of the cruise lines under the Carnival banner actually care about what the passengers like and want and place a stronger emphasis on passenger satisfaction opposed to revenue and cramming them all in and stuffing in extra cabins where they can fit them?
If cruise lines are to survive in current circumstances they need to make the very most of every ship. I seriously doubt that a few extra cabins on Veendam will make that much difference. And the ongoing investment in almost all of the Carnival Corp. ships and lines (I actually can't think of one of their lines that is not currently spending huge sums on updating their fleets) clearly indicates that they are determined to give their pax what they obviously want.
As for Carnival caring, well you travel on Carnival ships all the time, and results speak for themselves, they are still here, they are under no threat whatsoever, their share price is 3 times that of their nearest rival and 25 times that of the number 3 company. If you look at the figures the amount of space on Carnival Corp. ships compare very well with those of its competition. And at the end of the day if they were not doing something right they would not be the biggest, most successful cruise line ever.
And I note they have developed their local Aussie market in a stunning manner, the soon to be 4 ships plus the 2 Princess ships based full time in Aussie is a far cry from the Fairstar. No other major cruise line has placed even 1 ship in this market full time never mind 6.
So by almost all measures I have to say that Carnival do listen and do care - even if only to ensure they stay at the top of the heap.
My problem is the way Carnival makes these changes without any consideration to aesthetics. For example, I don't mind that Sensation had those balconies added, but the design could have been more integrated, the balcony extensions more elegantly incorporated or blended. As is, they look horrible.
Consider Costa Victoria. The forward and aft ends of her new balconies are rounded into the hull--not just bluntly side slabbed like Sensation. Or why didn't they opt for a french balcony solution like Seabourn? Again, a far better option.
I can see by comments here that people are not impressed where HAL is going, not being a HAL passenger I dont know what their main appeal is, but if Carnival removes that appeal HAL has over its regulars is it in danger of losing passengers over gaining them.
I am not a big fan of saying it is a cruise lines aim to make money (everyone has to do it to stay in business) but its a pretty poor businuss grounding if that is their main concern and not passenger satisfaction. Allot of passengers go to have a good holiday and allot wont put up with second rate service.
To give an example if Aurora or Oriana had refits and lost the terrace decks I would never go back to them period. I know it wont happen because it would be impossible with weight seakeeping etc, but that is a good reason that will stop me cruising on my favourite ships.
I have to say that we have always been impressed by how much attention HAL have paid to our opinions & feedback. Although obviously others have agreed with us, it has become a bit of a joke that whatever we complain about in the questionnaire, it is corrected by the next cruise!
Whatever the negative comments about Carnival, I always try to remember that without them, we may no longer have HAL & Cunard, no QM2 & maybe far more expensive cruises.
Graham.
I recently sailed on Arcadia one of the Vista class ships and I actually did not mind the ship at all. It was good to sail on, had a good layout and some really good public rooms (I have not seen the tacky Vista's of HAL that everyone hates). The refit gave extra deck space which is allot better than it used to be, however the ship is noticably crowded in the buffet restaurant with lots of passengers left without a seat during peak periods of breakfast and lunch. That is one negative effect of extra passengers.
What I would like to know is are HAL's passengers the type that will accept a ships change like that with extra cabins and extra people crowding the ship or would they not care.
If it were P&O and it happened to Aurora or Oriana I would bet money on it that there would be a massive outcry with loads of passengers vowing not to return.
quote:Originally posted by Sutho:Having not sailed on HAL I have not seen first hand what they do and offer, but I suspect it is an American type version of P&O's British equivelant. A line dedicated to longer voyages and attracting people interested in the ship being their home away from home and visiting exotic destinations.I recently sailed on Arcadia one of the Vista class ships and I actually did not mind the ship at all. It was good to sail on, had a good layout and some really good public rooms (I have not seen the tacky Vista's of HAL that everyone hates). The refit gave extra deck space which is allot better than it used to be, however the ship is noticably crowded in the buffet restaurant with lots of passengers left without a seat during peak periods of breakfast and lunch. That is one negative effect of extra passengers.What I would like to know is are HAL's passengers the type that will accept a ships change like that with extra cabins and extra people crowding the ship or would they not care.If it were P&O and it happened to Aurora or Oriana I would bet money on it that there would be a massive outcry with loads of passengers vowing not to return.
Only having sailed on P&O twice about 9 years ago I would rate them higher than HAL. HAL is a bit bland in food and service. Their ships interior wise are by no means as nice as P&O. (A bit of Netherlands kitschy bling bling Rembrandt coloured Vegas on steroids). Crew is nice but a bit robotic ally trained I was very underwhelmed by the Eurodam itself. Some of the furnishings were more suitable to a ferry than an actual cruise ship. However it was a little better than f e Zuiderdam which is even more wacko.
This was an RSVP charter with a different clientele it was designed for but it wasn't crowded at all. You could see the crew waking up out of their regular brainwashed routine halfway down the week and actually start enjoying it.But in general they are comfortable ships.
On the Veendam you can see the onboard revenue department in charge again. Absolutely no space for aesthetics. The promenade deck is sacrificed for more onboard revenue. (no more space to sit and relax in a deck chair there) . Let's hope they get the theatre in shape. These Delft blue tiles are horrible.But there should be a good (exotic) market for these smaller mid sized ships.
quote:Originally posted by Maasdam:The Olsen twins where asked to dedicate the ship in light with there new kid/teenager program, the Zaandam was promoted as the family ship. So whats wrong to ask these girls.
quote:Originally posted by Maasdam:Farcus indeed designed 2 public rooms, but after the Show lounge a/b Statendam was ready, Big Boss Ted Arrison and the design team fore the vessels quickly decided to change the design. And VFD redone the entire room (some say that the room looks like a bathroom with so much tiles) They also removed him from the Crow's Nest and used the plans by VFD. So This Little mistake was solved before only 1 passenger boarded the vessel.
This is why in the first round of Signature of Excellence refits, the Crow's Nests on STATENDAM, MAASDAM and RYNDAM were totally rebuilt, this time to a design by Yran & Storbraaten.
quote:Originally posted by Sutho:What I would like to know is are HAL's passengers the type that will accept a ships change like that with extra cabins and extra people crowding the ship or would they not care.
[ 04-09-2009: Message edited by: dougnewman ]
The duck tail also looks better than expected.
quote:Originally posted by shipcafe:
Looks better than the mis-matched penthouses that are on QE2. The design of the first ones did'nt match the aft ones installed in the mid-1980s and the QE and QM suites looked even worse from the exterior. I wonder who was in charge of that design mess?
Where did you see a photo of the ducktail? I haven't seen one with it attached yet.
Ernie
I cant see the point of removing once usefull passenger recreational deck space for more cabins.
This is supposedly a line that prides itself on lengthy sea days. Well what are passengers supposed to to at sea when their pools and facilities are gradually taken away?
I am afraid in my opinion they have literally butchered that ship and I hope they get a lack of passenger interest in the ship just to teach these reckless executives that passenger facilities and comfort is what comes first on a cruise ship not revenue. If it has been operating successfully for years then why change it.
[ 04-20-2009: Message edited by: Maasdam ]
quote:Originally posted by Sutho:On the deck plans it has "The retreat". Is that where the pool is going to be? and if it is will it be open to all passengers free of charge or will this be a pay to enter area of what was normally free to go to?
On board the S class the Sea View pool is renamed Retreat and is in place of the Sea View pool. Only the whole deck is lifted to the level of Lido deck (as on Amsterdam and the Vista's) in the place created the new added cabins will find there place. This deck will be adult only. This deck is free of charge and open to all passengers.
Kids cane use the lido pool and the small pool on there own outside deck on sky deck behind the funnel.
Of course by not having a real pool, it means there is no pool well into the deck below, which opens up more space for revenue producing cabins.
Personally I'm not impressed. At least if HAL were going to do this they could make it look classy. Instead it really looks like Carnival's waterworks. It's a little tacky looking IMO (at least from the renderings)
Who knows, maybe in person it will be very nice. I'm just sad to see one of the nicest (and quietest) areas of the ship be taken over by a wading pool and large screen TV.
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