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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Ships   » Explorer: Sinking in Antarctic Ocean (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Explorer: Sinking in Antarctic Ocean
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 11-23-2007 11:14 AM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Eric:
[...]The ice in Alaska has no relation to Antarctica ice. Grains of wheat to to boulders the size of a cathedral springs to mind. [...]

The situations is of course very different BUT the icebergs from the calving glaciers in Alaska can also damage the hull of a ship!

When it comes to large cruise ships my concern is more about the evacuation in such a remote area - several thousand people are not as 'easily' evacuated as 200 people. e.g. Princess has announced to stay away from the ice (which somehow makes the whole undertaking pointless) If they stay with that it should be less of an issue. (not that it is no issue!)

BTW - is it already clear that Explorer hit an iceberg?


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cunard Fan
First Class Passenger
Member # 7530

posted 11-23-2007 11:27 AM      Profile for Cunard Fan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
heres another photo..

I hope very much she does not sink. Shes a really cute little ship.

[ 11-23-2007: Message edited by: Cunard Fan ]


Posts: 2327 | From: Pasadena just north of Queen Mary | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
viking109
First Class Passenger
Member # 6280

posted 11-23-2007 11:43 AM      Profile for viking109        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Have just read the Lloyds List article. Am I right or wrong in thinking that the problems/faults mentioned would have been rectified.
Posts: 499 | From: southampton | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
mike sa
First Class Passenger
Member # 5957

posted 11-23-2007 11:56 AM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They would have to have been recertified before her recertifcation last month, so these issues in theory would not have been a factor.

Whether Princess (and HAL and Celebrity etc) say they are staying clear of the ice field etc is irelevant, ice is always going to be a problem down there, you cannot predict where it will go, from a purely risk assessment point of view you need to assume the worst will happen and then work out how you deal with it, down there you simply cannot.

And anyway if you are going on an Antarctic cruise what is the point of going if you dont see the icebergs etc. Seems like a waste of money then, may as well stay in the lounge and play that awful bingo.


Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES
First Class Passenger
Member # 5641

posted 11-23-2007 12:01 PM      Profile for Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Author's Homepage   Email Neil - Ex P & O & PRINCESS CRUISES   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hi all

I cruised Alaska on P&O's ss ' Arcadia ' and their ' Spirit of London ' which was re-named ' Sun Princess ' over 30 years ago.

One ship which seems to cruise in the Antartic every year is the Voyages of Discovery cruise ship mv ' Discovery ' which was the original Princess Cruises ' Island Princess '.

Is it known if this ship has an ice stregthened hull ?

Regards

Neil ( Bob )


Posts: 2355 | From: Dunstable, Bedfordshire. 30 miles north of London | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 11-23-2007 01:10 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To my knowledge, Discovery has no ice strengthened hull. She is nevertheless certainly also out of place in Antarctic waters independent of whether she has an ice strengthened hull or not.

[ 11-23-2007: Message edited by: Ernst ]


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 11-23-2007 01:15 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mike sa:
[...]

Whether Princess (and HAL and Celebrity etc) say they are staying clear of the ice field etc is irelevant, ice is always going to be a problem down there, you cannot predict where it will go, from a purely risk assessment point of view you need to assume the worst will happen and then work out how you deal with it, down there you simply cannot.

And anyway if you are going on an Antarctic cruise what is the point of going if you dont see the icebergs etc. Seems like a waste of money then, may as well stay in the lounge and play that awful bingo.


I agree 100 %. It is just stupid.

They should leave that to small, suitable, well equipped and strictly supervised vessels.


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 11-23-2007 01:38 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
pictures at www guardian.co.uk

[ 11-23-2007: Message edited by: Ernst ]


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
DAMBROSI
First Class Passenger
Member # 100

posted 11-23-2007 02:37 PM      Profile for DAMBROSI   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How strange how this resembles the TITANIC with passengers in the lifeboats. I think this ship is'nt going to make it.
Posts: 2554 | From: Florida, USA, Where the Legend SS NORWAY sailed from. Moving back to FL next yr. | Registered: May 99  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 11-23-2007 04:22 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Armada de Chile
Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Johan
First Class Passenger
Member # 4458

posted 11-23-2007 04:28 PM      Profile for Johan   Email Johan   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Has the ship sunk ?
It was the main point on the news here, there was a Belgian couple on board, and she gave some eye witness accountsµ.
The news said the ship has sunk, but reporting can sometimes be inaccuate.

J


Posts: 1895 | From: Antwerpen, Belgium | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 11-23-2007 04:31 PM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

It is amazing a fist size hole can take her down.


Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 11-23-2007 04:34 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Johan:
Has the ship sunk ?
It was the main point on the news here, there was a Belgian couple on board, and she gave some eye witness accountsµ.
The news said the ship has sunk, but reporting can sometimes be inaccuate.

J


I heard that too but can not find something to 'confirm' that. I also heard that she has been given up by the captain and the officer who stayed aboard. But one thing is for sure: A ship can not recover from a list as seen in the photo above.

[ 11-23-2007: Message edited by: Ernst ]


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 11-23-2007 04:37 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by desirod7:

It is amazing a fist size hole can take her down.

It's very likely was not a fist size hole. I 'heard' that it is a 'fist wide gap' - and this gap is said to be 50 m long. (this is not confirmed)

[ 11-23-2007: Message edited by: Ernst ]


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 11-23-2007 05:08 PM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So very sad.. RIP, such a cute vessel. Here she is in Portsmouth 11 years ago, 12 August 1996:-


photo courtesy of 31knots.

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 11-23-2007 06:08 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Her sinking has not yet been confirmed - but there is now some seemingly more reliable information on the size of the leak: 10 by 4 inches according to Coast Guard officials from Argentina. see this article

It has also been reported that the deficits described in the Lloyds List article posted above have been rectified before the ship unterwent another inspection.
read this extensive Herald Tribune article


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
PamM
First Class Passenger
Member # 2127

posted 11-23-2007 06:28 PM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From the Guardian Link above it states regarding the deficiencies reported.. "An MCA spokesman, Mark Clarke, said: "These were not huge problems and were all rectified before the vessel sailed. It would not have been allowed to depart if everything had not been sorted out."" So it seems they were no big deal and not an issue relating to this incident.

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
dougnewman
First Class Passenger
Member # 11349

posted 11-23-2007 07:12 PM      Profile for dougnewman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Deficiencies in Port State Control inspections are quite common - it is probably more common to have a few than not to. It is one thing if a ship is detained (which means the authorities determined that the deficiencies were significant), or if there are many of them, but an inspection with five deficiencies is not something to be concerned about.
Posts: 2072 | From: Long Island, NY, USA | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 11-23-2007 07:34 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It has been confirmed by the Chilenian navy that she sank 15 hours after the collision with an iceberg.

Deficiencies during port inspections are 'common' and some deficiencies are more severe than others but it is not totally negligible either. Maybe one should not be worried about all reported deficiencies but it certainly is not the ideal case.

[ 11-23-2007: Message edited by: Ernst ]


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Johan
First Class Passenger
Member # 4458

posted 11-23-2007 08:20 PM      Profile for Johan   Email Johan   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A sad incident, a ship sinking.
After sea diamond, yet 2 cruiseships sunk this year - not good.
On the flemish commercial TV there was a computer simulation of the incident, with a titanic in the colors of the Explorer...a bit tasteless i thought.

Luckily no human casualties

J


Posts: 1895 | From: Antwerpen, Belgium | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
mike sa
First Class Passenger
Member # 5957

posted 11-23-2007 11:53 PM      Profile for mike sa   Author's Homepage   Email mike sa   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hi Pam

That is a great pic of her, but actually it shows her leaving Poole in Dorset not Southampton, it is the Haven Hotel behind her and behind that my old house !

Great shame but one of the risks when going out of normal shipping lanes. I hope several boardrooms around the Miami, Seattle and LA area are taking note.

Quick Q, does anyone know if Silverseas new ship "World Discoverer" is ice rated ?


Posts: 2272 | From: Durban, South Africa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 11-24-2007 12:54 AM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mike sa:
[...]
Quick Q, does anyone know if Silverseas new ship "World Discoverer" is ice rated ?

Yes, she has an ice strengthened hull. Mind you that it does not only come down to an ice strengthened hull.

Hitting ice (at e.g. 'higher' speed) can also pierce an ice strengthened hull. (as this accident proved) An ice strengthened hull does not mean that one can risk a collision with ice - not even a tiny iceberg or a sheet of ice. (it allows to go trough ice - e.g. to follow an ice breaker) As a leak can obviously never be excluded it is therefore utmost important how a vessel can survive a leak. (How many compartments can be flooded, does the ship have a double hull etc.)

As much as I prefer to see small ships operating in such areas: They presently actually do not have to comply to as strict regulations as larger passenger ships. (e.g. concerning the subdivision of the hull)


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 11-24-2007 05:17 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Did the Marco Polo not offer similar cruises, but had an ice strengthened hull?
Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 11-24-2007 05:27 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Capatain of the rescue vessel talks Here.
Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
sympatico
First Class Passenger
Member # 797

posted 11-24-2007 07:47 AM      Profile for sympatico     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Toronto Globe & Mail November 24, 2007

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071124.wship24/BNStory/Front/home

Last night one of the reps of the travel company was on TV - I rolled my eyes when she said "things like this happen!".


Posts: 3305 | From: Toronto, Ont. Canada | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged

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