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quote:Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:... the Voyager Class etc. etc. look good while QM2's look like a block of apartments stacked on a hull.
Mmmm...really?
[ 08-29-2007: Message edited by: dmwnc1 ]
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1:Mmmm...really?
Yes, really.
To dampen replies to my comment: I consider the exterior of one of my favourite ships - Hanseatic - as obnoxious exteriors.
The exterior of QM2 is a hodgepodge - the many design features (whereof some are citations from other ships) are probably when aboard but certainly do not enhance her exterior appearance. Also, her proportions are a bit strange - e.g. hull appears to be too massive and from some angles her bow is far too high. (but I guess this could not be avoided)
The exterior of the Voyager class - not beauties either - is certainly more consistent. (the extra length of Freedom of the seas helps a lot)
quote:Originally posted by Aussie1:Enclosed bridge wings are all about allowing cheaper, non waetherproof controls to be used. [...]
....depends on the officers asked - enclosed bridge wings were certainly not invented aboard cruise ships but ships operating in (very) adverse weather conditions. And do not forget the tiny houses in the bridge wings of some older vessels. Personally, I also prefer to be outside and I like open bridge wings - but I guess some people have another point of view.
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:Personally, I also prefer to be outside and I like open bridge wings - but I guess some people have another point of view.
Personally, I also prefer to be outside and I like open bridge wings - but I guess some people have another point of view.
I wonder which bridge wing the officers and crew of QE or QM preferred being on during a cold, wet and windy North Atlantic crossing?
It’s interesting how time is such a great healer. When we first saw the artists impressions of the ‘Queen Mary 2’, then actual photo’s, just about everyone thought she had too much of a wall of balconies and her funnel was far too short in proportion to the hull. In fact I recall some CT’s said that she looked like a ferry.
However I think she has grown on most of us. In my opinion the one design feature that makes her more attractive than all other modern ‘boxy’ cruise ships is her ‘Fantail’. The QV of course does not have this feature.
quote: However I think she has grown on most of us. In my opinion the one design feature that makes her more attractive than all other modern ‘boxy’ cruise ships is her ‘Fantail’. The QV of course does not have this feature.
Is it a fantail stern on QM2 or just a tiered stern?
But I know what you mean, and I agree with you. As time goes by, Oriana & Aurora look more & more special with their tiered sterns. Subsequent P&O ships don't have this feature. Ventura will have it in miniature, but 12 decks up!
In three weeks' time I shall be on a ship with a genuine fantail stern - Braemar. However, I'm on a mini-cruise from Newcastle to Southampton via a day in the North Sea, Honfleur & Guernsey, so I don't know how much I will be able to enjoy said fantail.
quote:Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:On the subject of the Queen Mary 2:It’s interesting how time is such a great healer. When we first saw the artists impressions of the ‘Queen Mary 2’, then actual photo’s, just about everyone thought she had too much of a wall of balconies and her funnel was far too short in proportion to the hull. In fact I recall some CT’s said that she looked like a ferry.However I think she has grown on most of us. In my opinion the one design feature that makes her more attractive than all other modern ‘boxy’ cruise ships is her ‘Fantail’. The QV of course does not have this feature.
Malcolm I fear we are practically alone in this world of aesthetes who yearn for their own definition of perfection in ship design. Personally I have always loved ships - all ships ..... and I can find something to appreciate in practically anything that floats. My one regret in life is that I did not make the sea my career. There is nothing like being at sea - but this seems something that eludes our aesthetes ... their only concern seems to be that most ships don't look like they were designed 40 years ago ... oh well, each to his own. Perhaps the cruise lines have got it wrong all these years? No, wait a minute .... aren't they building clones to keep up with the demand for cruising on modern cruiseships???
Ken
[ 08-30-2007: Message edited by: KenC ]
quote: Perhaps the cruise lines have got it wrong all these years? No, wait a minute .... aren't they building clones to keep up with the demand for cruising on modern cruiseships???
Well, I'm certainly not going to argue with the success of the cruise lines. We often forget that we're actually living through a golden age of passenger ship building: of the largest 75 or so passenger ships ever built, all but 10 or so date from the last 15 years. Including all of the largest 25 or so.
But I feel there is a bit of a chicken & egg situation over demand. There is demand, for which they build clone ships because that's cost-effective, and which further reduces costs which they can reflect in lower 'sticker' prices which increases demand, for which they build more ships....
The whole thing is laid out in the book "Selling the Sea" which was discussed here a short while ago. It's an interesting read, and is too complex to summarise quickly.
One thing I'm intrigued about is this: what will the cruise market do when the supply of new ships dries up? (I do believe that the expansion will stop one day). I think, reading other cruise forums, that many cruise passengers love that 'new ship gleam': I have seen 10-year old ships referred to as 'rust-buckets' (Galaxy, specifically), when they clearly weren't; just showing reasonable 10-year wear & tear here & there. I wonder what the mass market will do when the majority of their ships are 10 years old +? I also think that there are a number of other cruise passengers, (and I think I count myself among them) who simply enjoy being on board a ship and are prepared to take the rough with the smooth. I suspect that a majority of us who post here would be the same.
quote: I wonder what the mass market will do when the majority of their ships are 10 years old
It probably won't happen. For better or worse we live in the throw-away age. Whereas it was once considered reasonable for a ship to be 30 years old, we now sneer at a 15 year old ship and consider something from 2000 middle-aged.
Come to Australia; we are about to receive a 16 year old ship (Regal Princess) and we are all agog. God knows the superlatives that will be printed when the 12 year old Sun Princess arrives. If someone told us we were getting a 10 year old vessel, the government would probably have to declare a public holiday!!!!
Brad
quote:Originally posted by Tom Burke: One thing I'm intrigued about is this: what will the cruise market do when the supply of new ships dries up?
Good point Tom. Maybe the cruise lines will have to change their marketing to focus on 'newly refitted' ships.
You notice that many cruise brochures do not mention a ships age at all. In the case of lines that buy 'second-hand' ships, they often say something like "Brand new to our fleet". Or they may state "entered service with us in 2007", both are true but can be misleading to non-experts, unlike us.
Cruise lines play Tetris with their ships, when a ship get old they sell it and build new tonnage just like that. This seems to work only with mass-market cruise lines with high demand and as long as their ships keep sailing full, they won't stop building.
Also as ships keep getting bigger they order fewer ships of the same class, another example in RCI: 5 Voyager-class ships built, 3 Freedom-class ships built, 2 Genesis-class ships ordered, what will come after this? who knows but it'll probably be 1 ship only when the first 2 Vision class are sold elsewhere, and that 1 ship will cary as many and more passengers as the other two making higher profits while lowering the cost of the ship and it's maintenance. It's common sense.
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:The exterior of QM2 is a hodgepodge...The exterior of the Voyager class - not beauties either - is certainly more consistent. (the extra length of Freedom of the seas helps a lot)
'Consistency' in exterior design can also be translated as 'bland' or 'uneventful' to the untrained eye, especially in todays giant (basically monochrome) box-boats. QM2's hodgepodge gives the eye something to roam to and from. Voyager...you get snow blind trying to something to lock you sight on to. It would be interesting to ask 10 total strangers that are not remotely familiar with cruise ships or design and ask them which they think looks nicer. I've done that and QM2 won everytime.
QV breaks up the clean lines of the Vista-Class with the crown-effect of the glass enclosed deck forward of the funnel and near the mast, and QE2-styled Cunard brightred funnel. Holland Americas Vista-Class funnels do them no favor. They almost reach blandness. Sleek, yes. Bland, almost.
quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1:[...] It would be interesting to ask 10 total strangers that are not remotely familiar with cruise ships or design and ask them which they think looks nicer. I've done that and QM2 won everytime. [...]
[...] It would be interesting to ask 10 total strangers that are not remotely familiar with cruise ships or design and ask them which they think looks nicer. I've done that and QM2 won everytime. [...]
I bet it's the dark hull. A ship with a dark hull is always looking more distinguished. Look e.g. at photos of QE2 with grey hull and compare them to her e.g. present livery. Or go to this webpage.
[ 08-30-2007: Message edited by: Ernst ]
quote:Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:I wonder which bridge wing the officers and crew of QE or QM preferred being on during a cold, wet and windy North Atlantic crossing?
I believe the controls on the exposed bridge wings are merely exterior versions of those found inside the main bridge. They were located there for convenience sake and the superior view from the wing. I don't think there were ever any outside controls that were not available inside the main bridge area.
Joe at TravelPage.com
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:I bet it's the dark hull. A ship with a dark hull is always looking more distinguished. Look e.g. at photos of QE2 with grey hull and compare them to her e.g. present livery.
Maybe it's because she looks like a 'real' ship, much like in those Kids I-Spy books to which unshippy people relate. I believe you have a photo of a ship recognition chart Ernst, which clearly demonstrates the need to use an image of a recognisable to all vessel and not something like a Voyager Class vessel which does not look to the average person anything like a ship.
Much like a vehicle carrier is completely unkown to many [those that never go near ports] and I bet seeing a picture of one of those would result in disbelief of it even being considered a ship.
Pam
quote: Much like a vehicle carrier is completely unkown to many [those that never go near ports] and I bet seeing a picture of one of those would result in disbelief of it even being considered a ship.
Like this one? - a real beauty!
http://www.2wglobal.com/www/WEP/
[ 08-30-2007: Message edited by: Tom Burke ]
quote:Originally posted by Tom Burke:Like this one? - a real beauty!
Exactly. Paint her white, stick a Viking Crown Lounge on it and you've got the next (insert name here)-of-the-seas.
Black painted hulls do make a difference. However someone once remaked on this site that black painted hulls made them look dirty or like cargo ships or something to that matter. I also asked someone to do a photoshop of the Freedom of the Seas in a black hull and it looked horrible. Black painted hulls dont fit all hull designs. An attractive hull design combined with a great exterior paint job offset by a crowning jewel of a funnel (Cunard) or a trashcan (Costa) can make an aesthetically stunning, or a bland boat.
First, the Explorer of the Seas with a nice blue hull
Next the Carnival Victory in classic CGT colors
The Oriana in the original corn hulled livery of her classic forebearer
And finally the Rotterdam VI repainted in the 1950's HAL Livery
I will say though that there are some cruise ships the are ugly. And theres no getting around that.
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