Security Problems

Part 2

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Originally posted by PamM:
Actually the videos are so bad I really don't have a clue what the heck is going on.

Pam

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Originally posted by Ernst:
Giving that it is not clear what actually happened I wonder why everone is so upset.

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Yes it's not entirely clear what has happened, but I thought the video would make an interesting talking point.

I assume that the security guard has good reason to talk to the youths as they have/are making a nuisance of themselves. Yes Ernst, the public room might well be pretty empty, but passengers may have left due to the disruption or are avoiding using it. It could of course be 3.00am in the morning? We don't know.

The above is just my speculation, but the fact is that the youths are clearly not showing any respect (a word they love to use rather than show) and are not doing what they are asked to by the security guard. They are clearly making fun of him. I think the term 'Curfew' is mentioned? The security guard is asking them to leave the area, possibly to go to their cabins?

The youths clearly think it was unfair action from RCI as they posted the video.

The comments on utube are interesting: One person asks "Why are you acting like assh*l*s? The person who posted the video replies"Cause we can, its called having fun a cruise".

For the record RCI rules say: Individuals whose behavior demonstrates: (1) Minor Infractions:....(i.e., making the cruise vacation experience unpleasant for other guests)...and the minor infractions three-step process (Warning, Second Warning, Action) will be enacted.

If numerous minor infractions are noted, the ship's management reserves the right to enact a 1:00 am curfew for all minors 17 years of age and younger, unless they are participating in organized shipboard activities.

[ 11-26-2006: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

The point is :We do not know the time, circumstances or what happened before. All we see is a video where someone is arguing with this guard - this is 'loud' confusing etc. - but I do not see anything IN this video which indicates that these teenagers did something 'frobidden' - nothing justifying some comments above.

Yes, I understand that there is maybe a suspicion that they 'misbehaved' - I also understand why the guard might have been nervous - BUT THIS IS NOT PROOF THAT SOMETHING happened. 'Hanging around' near a swiming pool is no crime - like it or not.

[ 11-26-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]

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Originally posted by Ernst:

Yes, I understand that there is maybe a suspicion that they 'misbehaved' - I also understand why the guard might have been nervous - BUT THIS IS NOT PROOF THAT SOMETHING happened. 'Hanging around' near a swiming pool is no crime - like it or not.

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Who needs proof? Just where do you think you are living!!!???

I still say throw their asses overboard!

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Originally posted by eroller:

Who needs proof? Just where do you think you are living!!!??? [...]

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Don't remind me of that.
Editing ship videos all day made me forget.

Nevertheless, just keep it in context - being a bit loud or using a certain language does not constitue a 'crime'. I met many passengers (to stay with ships) whose behaviour I did not like - but this is not necessarily a crime.

We see avideo where they are in a 'loud' (perkily?) argument with the security guard - maybe the guard is right - maybe the children are right and 'defend' themself - but I do not see how they spoiled someone's vacation nor a reason to remove them from the ship.

[ 11-26-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]

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Originally posted by Cunard Fan:
Kids live in a very disrespectfull world and that makes it harder to grow up as a respectfull person.

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Unfortunately it's not just kids that live in a disrespectful world, it's pretty much everyone. We (at least in the Western world) live very much in a "me" oriented society, and the attitude is everyone else can go to hell.

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Originally posted by Ernst:
All we see is a video where someone is arguing with this guard... but I do not see anything IN this video which indicates that these teenagers did something 'frobidden'.

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Personally I think kids arguing with 'authority' is wrong and is 'forbidden' in my book! I'm not anti-kid, but when I cruise I do not wish to hear a 'gang' of kids (or adults for that matter) arguing with anyone!

Don't you think that videoing the event and posting it on the internet takes it to a whole different level? RCI could hardly post any security footage that may exist, of the kids causing a nuisance (if the kids did) on U-tube, could they?

However, I do agree with you Ernst that we do not know anymore facts than that. So 'end of story', as Pam would say.

[ 11-26-2006: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

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Originally posted by Pascal:
By the way, has someone recognized the ship where all this takes place ?

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I believe MARINER OF THE SEAS.

The video is very disburbing. Yes, we dont know what what the root cause of the incident. I wish the cruise lines could hire better trained and more authoritative security, and not the poor unfortunate rent-a-cops that patrol the halls and public rooms. I am sure they go through some type of training, but are that trained how to handle roaming bands of American delinquent adolescents?

Posting this clip on the net certainly brought it to another level - I wonder whether the parents are aware of that.

[ 11-26-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]

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Originally posted by dmwnc1:
....refused to follow an authorities instructions shows that the rent-a-cop barley garnered, or demanded, any respect with his seemingly laxidasical attitude.

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For much of my career I have worked with British 16 to 18 year olds and upwards. Enforcing discipline is not easy. In general they do not like authority figures and being ‘told-off’. Not all kids are bad of course. However, in a gang, their hormone-fuelled reflex action to being told-off is nearly always to verbally retaliate.

Outside my office was a staircase. Young people would often sit on the stairs en mass blocking the entire stair case. Occasionally I would say “Hey guys, please do not sit on the stairs, you are blocking them”. Their reply would often be something like “Whatever” or “So who the hell are you to tell us what to do”, or simply “F Off”. Rarely did they move without an unpleasant confrontation.

The security guard is trying to solve the problem (or perceived problemm Ernst) in a ‘laid back’ manner and not be over confrontational or too authoritive. The kids are also videoing him!

If he did go in ‘harder’ he would probably get punched. If he tried to defend himself he would be suspended for assaulting a minor – who may be 6ft tall.

It’s an impossible job.

[ 11-27-2006: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]