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Celebrity Cruises upset some in the Catholic community earlier this month, when they ended their longstanding tradition of inviting priests on board to hold daily masses, including Sunday services.

The change became effective January 4th, after the cruise line received "a great deal of negative feedback pertaining to the 'selective' support of one particular religion/faith."

Celebrity hopes that the new policy will level the playing field, and aims to be more balanced for passengers of all religions.

"Out of respect for our guests of all religious faiths, Celebrity has chosen to align the religious services provided for Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Interdenominational faiths," Celebrity said in a statement. "Roman Catholic Priests, Protestant Ministers and Jewish Rabbis or Cantors will be provided and official services will be conducted for the major High Holy Holidays of each respective faith. Daily and weekly scheduling of any religious services will no longer be offered on an official basis."

The Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, based in New York, fired back by saying the cruise line yielded to "bigots".

"Instead of standing on principle and telling those generating the 'negative feedback' that no one is forced to go to Mass, and that tolerance demands respect for religious freedom, officials at Celebrity Cruises decided to yield to the bigots," the Catholic League's Bill Donohue said in a statement on January 14th. "The Catholic League advises all Catholics to shop around the next time they plan to take a cruise, but not to waste their time checking out Celebrity Cruises."

Celebrity had been one of the few cruise lines that invited priests to head services on every sailing. The shift will now mean religious officials will only be invited to conduct services for major religious holidays, with priests sailing over the Easter and Christmas holidays.

The cruise line also added that even though religious officials won't be on hand on a daily basis, passengers interested in organizing religious services, or volunteering their religious services to others, are encouraged to inquire at the Guest Services Desk after boarding the ship.

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Most of my cruises if there was not a rabbi, priest, or minister, religious services were offered and asked a passenger to lead them. On Oceania a rabbi was a passenger, asked for Friday night service, and he lead it. 25 out of 350 passengers attended. I see no reason why anyone wanting a religious service can't ask for it then lead the prayers themselves.

[ 03-23-2010: Message edited by: joe at travelpage ]

I suppose this was an inheritance of Chandris in the Med. ?

Anyhow private prayer is not really a substitution of a celebration of a Mass, of which bible reading is only a small part. To constitute a real catholic "prayer liturgy" with lay people instead of priests is not something that can be done impromptu, and certainly not on shorter cruises.

Different religions have different traditions, which cannot really be compared.

I think it is a pity.

What about a nondenominational service by the captain, which is a wasp-tradition.

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Originally posted by Cunard Fan:
[...]
A Catholic Mass cannot be substituted with a Prayer service or Bible reading. Also going to Mass on the weekends is an obligation for Catholics so being on a week long cruise and no Mass over the weekend is a problem.[...]

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It is true that a Catholic Mass can not be substituted with a prayer. However, while traveling you are dispensed from your obligation to attend Mass on Sunday. I would also be surprised to learn that a Catholic priest was aboard every Celebrity ship at all times. I am also not sure what the policy of other cruise lines is concerning that matter. It is of course very odd to hear that people complained about a Catholic priest being aboard but giving all the above I wonder whether the reaction isn't 'a bit' exaggerated.

[ 01-26-2010: Message edited by: Ernst ]

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Originally posted by Maasdam:

But 1 religion I miss in the list and that is Islam, I really hope they not left them out!

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Even now, Catholics, Protestants and Jews are being treated better than every other religion.

That said, while it's true that "tolerance demands respect for religious freedom," I'm not exactly sure whose religious freedom is being violated here. If the Catholic church wants to pay for a cabin for a priest on every cruise, I'm sure Celebrity would be happy to provide him with space to hold Mass.

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Originally posted by dougnewman:
Ultimately, of the major US cruise lines, only HAL seems to carry a priest at all times. Carnival, Celebrity, NCL, Princess and Royal Caribbean don't. I would think all these cruise lines have quite a few Catholic passengers.

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Cunard on the longer cruises and crossings has both the priest and a rabbi. My understanding is that the chaplain gets a free fare in exchange for conducting services. On Cunard they also gave seminars and the priest and rabbi together held a discussion about life in the Chart Room.

Just my opinion: the Catholic Church, Mormans, Anglican and Southern Baptist conventions overreach in political activity in regards to gay marriage, abortion, pornography, etc. All seem to forget that there is a strong separation of church and state. The Catholic League response is an outright lie and hypocritical especially with some of their political activities. It can be argued that since there organization is bigoted against gays, and claim that non-Christians cannot go to heaven that Celebrity Cruises is
right.

In regards to cruise ships, many are 'Christened' and the P&O cruise ship Ventura is even named after a saint (San Buenaventura)

[ 01-26-2010: Message edited by: lasuvidaboy ]

In 2007 QE2 had both a Rabbi & a Priest for Mass aboard, but in 2009 QM2 there was only an Interdenominational Service & a room provided for Unhosted Sabbath Eve Worship. Costa had Mass, but that was Christmas anyway.

Leave it to individuals to do their own thing.

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Originally posted by dougnewman:
I'm not sure what any of this has to do with separation of church and state since Celebrity Cruises is obviously not the state.

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Originally posted by PamM:
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Leave it to individuals to do their own thing.

Pam

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Thank you Pam,

Doug, you are correct, Celebrity ships are not sovereign to the United States.

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Originally posted by desirod7:
Just my opinion: the Catholic Church, Mormans, Anglican and Southern Baptist conventions overreach in political activity in regards to gay marriage, abortion, pornography, etc. All seem to forget that there is a strong separation of church and state. The Catholic League response is an outright lie and hypocritical especially with some of their political activities. It can be argued that since there organization is bigoted against gays, and claim that non-Christians cannot go to heaven that Celebrity Cruises is
right.

Ducking for cover

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I won't presume to tell you that you or wrong, mis-guided or that you should accept Jesus as your Personal savior. You are entitled to your opinion and even though I admit it is in conflict with my own I totally respect your opinion and you . However since I am on the other side of the issue(s) I thought I might post my opinion.

Personally I don't agree with your (or the others who have posted here) definition of Separation of Church and State. For me at least, what that means is simply that the State cannot rule over the Church (or any religion) and that no religion can rule over the state. I don't really think our country violates this to often. Countries that do suffer from a lack of separation between Church and State include Countries such as China (which rules over religion) and Iran or some other countries in the Middle East (Where the religion is in control of the state). Neither situation is good for anyone.

Religion is meant to be a guide to people in all aspects of their life ( which is why most religions have a stance on things like abortion, gay marriage and porn and why they make those stances known.
By making their view know I don't think the Church or and religion in violating Church and State. If the Church was not allowed to speak out and state its beliefs then that would be a violation of Separation of Church and State since the state would be ruling over the Church (just like in China).

As a devote Catholic I find it impossible to separate my Faith from my politics. I can' believe in one thing and then go support something that is in conflict with it and still claim to believe in it. I don't think that a violation of Church and State.

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Originally posted by desirod7:
...and claim that non-Christians cannot go to heaven...

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I'm sorry but any Christian who actually believes that has frankly missed the whole point of Christianity. Desirod I hope you don't think that all/ most Christians really believe that. Personally I can't imagine that great people like Gandhi who were not Christian, went to hell.

If the Catholic Church is so damn adamant about having a priest on board, let it fork over the cash and pay for one….after all, it is one of the richest organizations on the planet; the amount of wealth it has is obscene.

Instead of wasting time and money on a slanderous campaign against a cruise line simply because it has discontinued giving priests a free ride, perhaps the Catholic Church should think about real issues… like world hunger, poverty, and disease.

Maybe a refresher course is in order…in Mark 10, when Christ was approached by a man wanting to get into heaven, Christ said:

"Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth. Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!"

In other words, for cryin’ out loud, have a yard sale at the Vatican, sell a few paintings and/or useless gold trinkets and feed the world!

THAT would be the Christian thing to do…..

Good thing Christ was resurrected from the grave...otherwise he'd be turning in it right about now.

-Russ

[ 01-28-2010: Message edited by: linerguy ]

I'm sure the Catholic League and Bill D do not represent the views of all Catholics; someone should tell them that.

Italian Line’s Rex wasn’t too shabby either as seen in this rendering from an early brochure of the ship. The space was less cavernous in its actual realization than what is depicted here. It must have been a wonderful place to fall to one’s knees and pray during a major storm.

The last one is the chapel onboard Raffaello from 1965. IMHO it is the last of the great chapels onboard ship.

Perhaps these spaces have disappeared because they do not generate revenue for the lines or perhaps conducting services in the theatre or lounge is good enough for most people. When I was on Eurodam the masses were held in the Culinary Arts Center, perhaps a fitting venue for bread and wine. On second thought, maybe HAL could earn a few extra dollars by combining a cooking class and wine tasting. Learn how to prepare your own communion wafers and may we suggest some wine pairings for the unbelievable price of only $25 per person? Hmm. There’s a thought.

[ 02-01-2010: Message edited by: Conte Di Savoia ]

[ 02-01-2010: Message edited by: Conte Di Savoia ]

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Originally posted by Conte Di Savoia:
Over the last 30 or so years the lines have also stepped away from providing chapels onboard their ships. Princess has their non-denominational wedding venues (do they use them for religious services?) but I cannot think of any that have been on a major build since Cunard placed a synagogue on QE2. [...]

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Originally posted by Ernst:

Some Costa vessels (also more recent ones) have a chapel.

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Yes Ernst the Costa Romantica have a small chapel, very nice and bright. It was a heaven of rest on the buzzing ship.