Where would the ship be today if Premier was still in business and had turned the ship into the Big Red Boat IV?

what if 9/11 never happened
what if obama was born in Cuba?

you can ask a million questions what if...

it doesn't make any sense to me

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Originally posted by Redlinekid2:
And what did the passengers had to say about the SS Rembrandt under Premier's care? They did wanted to turn the ship into the Big Red Boat IV.

Where would the ship be today if Premier was still in business and had turned the ship into the Big Red Boat IV?

Would it had been restored as the SS Rotterdam, as we know it today? Or would the ship had gone to the breakers, like the SS Norway and the TS Maxim Gorkiy?

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I had sailed Premier twice on the Sea Breeze and the Rembrandt. Rembrandt was still my favorite cruise 9 years later. Premier was essentially a mass market product on old ships. Food was good, service was friendly, amenities: bare, and entertainment like a HS talent show.

The Rembrandt was the only jewel in the fleet. The *.breezes were refitted to the point where they offered the worst of a classic liner and the worst of a modern cruise ship.

The ships they had were 7x the operating costs of a modern ship. They could not compete on price since Carnival and RCCL could undercut any time they wanted to and did.

Their problem was they could not decide what they wanted to be. The had the red fleet of the Big Red Boats and blue fleet for a more mature audience.

Were they going to be a niche line with long cruises on exotic itineraries? Were they going to be a budget line with the same old tired ports and cruise format? Were they going to be a rugrat line catering to unruly families?

When they seemed to start something, they would abandon in the middle for something else.

Many cruisers who have come online since year 2000 would not put up with the inconvinences of a classic liner over a modern boxboat.

Classic liners as we know them have gone the way of the turntable and vinyl records. There was no way Premier could have survived. Carnival looked them over and decided not to buy the line.

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Originally posted by Redlinekid2:

Where would the ship be today if Premier was still in business and had turned the ship into the Big Red Boat IV?

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The main reason that the ROTTERDAM was preserved is that, well, because her interiors were already so preserved! Had she gone from the Blue Fleet to the Red Fleet there is every proabability that she would have been gutted out to some extent, thereby losing the very essence that gave her so much charm and nostalgia.

But this is all a moot point, because it's impossible to imagine the Premier operation still in existence in 2009, based upon their old, classic fleet. As David has pointed out, it was very expensive to maintain and operate such old ships against the modern, new, and BIG ships of the major lines. Premier went out of business for many of the same reasons as did Commodore, American Hawaii, Regency, etc., etc.

RedLineKid, here are some CT threads at the time of Premier's demise. My contributions?: opinions change and evolve over time.

http://www.travelserver.net/travelpage/ubb-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=003305

http://www.travelserver.net/travelpage/ubb-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000753

http://www.travelserver.net/travelpage/ubb-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000755

The Premier ships were spotless inside and out and always smelled very, very clean! Perhaps Dial Corp. (soap company) as the main owner of Premier was providing unlimited cleaning supplies!

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Originally posted by cruisemole:
Dial killed Premier.

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Likely true however; even if the best whiz-managers took over, and around today, none of the classic fleet would be deployed. SOLAS would take out the Rotterdam, *.Breezes were worn out.

The fleet may have consisted of the Oceanic, Norwegian Sea or Wind, Clipper Pacific, Loveboats, Sally Albatross, Perla, Holiday class, doing ultra cheap 3 day gambling cruises out of Mobile; Lauderdale, and Baltimore.

The 1st iteration was with the Royale alone, before the Disney partnership. It was fledgling, but a unique offer and alternative to the Miami based short Bahamas cruises.

The 2nd iteration was once the Disney partnership was underway. I believe the best years of PCL were from the aquisition of the Oceanic throught the second season on Majestic's ABACODABRA itinerary. The food and service was on par with RCCL. Entertainment was beefed up with LEGENDS in CONCERT from Las Vegas. The ships were older, but they were very well maintained and clean. Pressure from Disney kept most standards better than the competition.

The 3rd iteration was with the merger of Dolphin/Seawind and anyone got any old ships for sale PCL. The product was diluted under operating costs. Marketing flounderd to be anything it could to attract from the new ship competition that drew away the clientel. It was grasping at straws, financially, conceptually and operationally.

I was at PCL in the mid 80s to early 90s. I learned more in my career at sea from that product than anywhere else. I see seeds from PCL in every major cruise product.

miamicruiser....we may have been shipmates at some point? Perhaps we can share notes.

[ 07-08-2009: Message edited by: TampaMike ]

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Originally posted by Maasdam:
I recall the international out cry when Premier announced that they wanted to rebuild the Rembrandt in Big Red Boat and even made artist impressions of the vessel in red livery. ...

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From our
Cruise News Archive - November 21,1999:

Finally, in a move that is sure to disappoint ocean liner aficionados, Premier will transform the S.S. Rembrandt (formerly HAL's Rotterdam V) into The Big Red Boat IV. In her new role she will offer 3 and 4-night cruises from Los Angeles to Catalina, San Diego and Ensenada during the winter months. In July 2001, Premier will make its maiden journey to the Great Northwest when The Big Red Boat IV begins 7-night Alaskan adventures.

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Originally posted by Maasdam:
I recall the international out cry when Premier announced that they wanted to rebuild the Rembrandt in Big Red Boat and even made artist impressions of the vessel in red livery. But they not think about the public and the protest on that announcement. Letters, mail, calls pouring in with angry passengers and even some press reactions where not friendly toward Premier. They quickly abandon the idea. Shortly after wards crew ruined one of here boilers on a trans Atlantic trip. After a view months Premier was ended and the rest is history.

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And Premier ended abrumptly, I might add. Otherwise, they might have ruined the SS Rotterdam in the same manner as the Regal Empress from behind the scenes. And the ship would have ended up in Alang, by now in Mr. Metha's delightful care.

The bad news was with Majestic being in Nassau. When weather or swells did not allow for Majestic to enter the cut behind Great Guana Cay in the Abacos, the ABACODABRA itinerary was aborted and the ship instead went to Nassau, duplicating the itinerary of the Oceanic and Atlantic.

Passengers were very unhappy as the Abaco itinerary was unique and splendid, though fragile to the weather. Further, Majestic carried many repeat PCL pax who did not want to again sail to Nassau. I recall several times repeat passengers on Majestic failed to reach the Abacos after 2 or 3 attempts.

When Majestic was blown out of the Abacos, it was a painful cruise for the passengers. The crew however, isolated to months of out islands, grueling work schedules and no contact with other ships, rejoiced at the site of Nassau. PCL staff reunions on the pier were very memorable and emotional.

I believe this photo was taken before the fire on Majestic in July 1991. I cannot see the portable containers on the stern which housed generators to supplement the engines which where being rebuilt months after the fire.

[ 07-10-2009: Message edited by: TampaMike ]

[ 07-11-2009: Message edited by: miamicruiser ]

I have always heard you drop the mention of Island and Pacific going to Premier in the early 90s.

How close to happening was this?

After the aquisition of Sun Princess to become Majestic, Premier had designs to expand to the West Coast and run 3 day and 7 day cruises in conjunction with Disneyland. The ships that were targeted for the west coast expansion were the Pacific and Island Princesses. Short Cruises to Catalina and Ensenada and 7 day Acapulco cruises were planned.

I believe it was quite close to reality as the staffing was already discussed as we worked in core teams at PCL which rotated thropughout the fleet.

Found Premier always a fascinating company, and reading AL those positive story's a good company to.