There is a new picture from Alang in circulation dated the 29th November 2007 showing the ex ss Norway with all her lifeboats removed.

Shipping reports at the US website Maritime Matters state that the top of her bow has been snipped off no doubt based on this new picture.

However there are two copies of this picture in circulation one of which shows the bow top removed and one with it complete.

I have blown up the picture with the top removed and it appears to have been altered from the original photo.

I have emailed Martin Cox, who runs the US Maritime matters website but he has not bothered to reply although the Australian Classic website replied in under 24 hours and removed the copy of the photo they were using !

No doubt his friend, Peter Knego, is very upset at the delays in the ex ss Norway being broken up, having sat on the beach at Alang since about June 2006.

All the contents are being damaged by mildew and dampness and becoming unsaleable !

The ship should never have been allowed to be beached at Alang with all the asbestos and other contaminated item on board.

This will result in injury and death to dockyard workers if permission is given for the ship to be broken up at Alang.

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Originally posted by Neil Whitmore ( Bob ):
Hi all

No doubt his friend, Peter Knego, is very upset at the delays in the ex ss Norway being broken up, having sat on the beach at Alang since about June 2006.

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As for Peter, I can't speak for him, but since NORWAY is being scrapped anyway, I would rather her have been scrapped earlier. There was no chance that she would be saved once she was beached, so why prolong things? The only effect the whole "uproar" had was to let the ship's interior deteriorate to such a point where things that could previously have been saved, may now not be salvageable.

Peter is a very good friend of mine and I can assure you that he takes absolutely no joy in seeing any ship scrapped. He knows there is no way these ships can be saved whole, so he tries to at least save what parts of them he can. To insinuate anything else, not least that he does this for personal gain, is preposterous. I have never seen anything that better fits the description "labor of love" and his sale of items that are surplus to his needs is merely an attempt to recoup some small portion of the vast costs taken on in this effort.

[ 12-01-2007: Message edited by: dougnewman ]

[ 12-01-2007: Message edited by: Ernst ]

As you seem to know so much, can you let me know what proof you have that information on the website is ' LURID ' !

Re the ex ss France / Norway there has always been two issues involved.

One was to try and save the ship for another use but the most important issue is to prevent the very poorly paid workers in the ship breakers yard from becoming contaminated with the asbestos and other live threatening materials on the ship.

Like the French aircraft carrier this ship should have been turned away.

She should have been sent back to Malaysia and not allowed to be beached at Alang.

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Originally posted by Neil Whitmore ( Bob ):
what proof you have that information on the website is ' LURID ' !

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The page shows intense dislike of anything NCL = Lurid.

PS Deb, check your msgs

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Originally posted by Neil Whitmore ( Bob ):
Ernst

As you seem to know so much, can you let me know what proof you have that information on the website is ' LURID ' !

Neil ( Bob )

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The whole page about NCL is full of hatered so Lurid. Agree with Ernst and Pam.

Maybe he cane now be focus on saving Maxim Gorky...........

Ben.

[ 12-02-2007: Message edited by: Maasdam ]

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Originally posted by Maasdam:

Maybe he cane now be focus on saving Maxim Gorky...........

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Originally posted by Neil Whitmore ( Bob ):
Ernst

As you seem to know so much, can you let me know what proof you have that information on the website is ' LURID ' !

Neil ( Bob )

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Originally posted by TDM99:
Waynaro see here " my " opinion & conclusion of this photo ...
http://captainsvoyage.7.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=21658#21658
Noel

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Noel,

With all due respect, I think either you're suffering from paranoïa, either a part of your mind does not accept the sad -but real- truth.

Let me address every of your affirmations:
- It's logical you see pixels if you zoom since the photo is of poor resolution (as you wrote yourself too).
By the way a significant part of what you're taking for pixels is in fact not only a lack of resolution but artefacts due to jpg high compression applied on the picture. It's obvious at every edges of the image.
- "Mooring" cables you mentioned are not "mooring" cables at all but cables attached (or welded as sometimes done on ships beeing scrapped) directly on the hull to pull her near the beach as the ship lightens during the scrapping process (or in case of high tide opportunity too).
- Davits in lower position for all of them are precisely a reason why I think this photo is not a montage at all. If it was a montage, lifeboats would only have been informatically erased and davits would have remained in up position. If they are in that low position this is because lifeboats have actually been really lowered and removed from the ship.
-And before all, what's the point to do a fake image? Well informad and concerned parts about this scrapping can relatively quickly and reliably check the truth day by day if needed anyway. So, no point at all. (Except perhaps for creating some conspiracy theories for some here or elsewhere...)

The real "swindle" (your word) is most probably the whole "ssmaritime.com affair/page".
Ok, I conceed, NCL, Star Cruises and the scrapper used poor and probably not entirely legal methods but the real truth is some individuals would do whatever to promote themselves for some or show their paranoïa or hatred towards everything done or not done with this ship.

Look, I love this ship since my childwood probably at least the same as you love her. Perhaps even more. We never know and that's not really important after all, BUT, this photo or not, the liner SS FRANCE or the cruise ship SS NORWAY IS about to be SCRAPPED within a short time.

Really sad for me, perhaps more than you can imagine, but true.
Promoting thinks differently, has now become pure bullshit and swindle.

[ 12-02-2007: Message edited by: Vaccaro ]

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Originally posted by Neil Whitmore ( Bob ):
She should have been sent back to Malaysia and not allowed to be beached at Alang.

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She's been beached. It's done. All the waiting after that has been, and always was going to be, for nought.

As for saving the workers from the dangerous conditions on board, I think we all know that all the ships being beached at Alang involve very dangerous conditions. It is not only this one that contains loads of toxic materials. The fight against NORWAY only makes sense if it is a proxy fight to shut down Alang altogether. And it is arguable whether that would be good for anyone, as the workers might well starve instead without work.

The whole thing is a very bad situation. I do not think anyone is going to deny that. Peter knows he is not going to save any ships and he is not going to save any workers either. But I think his efforts to make the best of a terrible situation by saving some objects from these ships at great personal cost to himself is hardly worthy of the constant attacks that have been leveled at them.

[ 12-02-2007: Message edited by: dougnewman ]

It now appears that most of the fittings and furniture worth saving has been bought by Norwegian and other people, so it does not look as if much of it will be going direct to the USA.

It also appears that the prices of items are being pushed to the limit by the ship breakers which is no doubt an attempt on their part to try and recover some of their costs in not being able to start breaking up the ship.

I have now heard from Martin Cox and he appears to be uncertain about the original picture which appears to show the top of the bow missing.

He has said that newer pictures are awaited.

The latest report on the boilers and explosion on the ex SS Norway appear to show that more could have been done by NCL in the way of maintenance on the ship !

Last night, I e-mailed my contact at Alang and this is his response: "I havetaken photo with two angle of slight cut at the tip of the front end.Which is still hanging you will see them."

This is a ceremony performed on almost every ship at Alang before it is broken up. It does not necessarily mean the breaking process has begun, but it is clearly forthcoming. I don't understand these "conspiracy" theories people cling to over such imagery. When I posted one of the first images of the ship when she arrived at Alang, there were people who speculated that I had posted a phony image.

Why would someone go through all this trouble to photoshop out the bow, cut holes in the sides of the ship, and lower all lifeboats when, if it were chicanery, it would be disproved quickly thereafter?

All the best,

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Originally posted by Midshipcentury:
Thanks for the welcome, Ernst. Actually, I'm Peter Knego. I forgot to sign my post.

All the best,

Peter

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The MAN, the MYTH, the LEGEND.

A hearty WELCOME to Cruise Talk. I truly admire and respect your work and efforts and hope that you become a regular contributor here.

Welcome Aboard!

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People like (insert name) need to learn to not use forums like this to attack others. It would be nice if he could use his knowledge and experience for more positive means and think twice before stirring up such mean-spirited nonsense.

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[ 12-03-2007: Message edited by: dmwnc1 ]

Welcome aboard. Over the years you have been very kind to me. The NYC ocean liner bazaar, use of the Regal Empress picture for my article, and meeting for the first time on the Vallejo ferry as we were photographing the Indy.

Most of us on CruiseTalk are very nice people, and have met about 18 in person. There is a cross over from LinersList. I hope you can be a regular contributor here.

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Originally posted by Midshipcentury:
Thanks for the welcome, Ernst. Actually, I'm Peter Knego. I forgot to sign my post.

All the best,

Peter

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[ 12-03-2007: Message edited by: desirod7 ]