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Speaking of the SS Norway, I certainly hope that a deal to buy her is successful. I certainly would tune in to see her restored back as the SS France once again!!!
Nevertheless, this is a good lesson plan. Buy the ship before it's sold to the scrappers. It's tougher to negotiate with a scrappers, as we've see with the SS Norway saga. I do hope for a miracle. But it's few and far between.
While a nice idea is it really likely, it seems the government are only prepared to support the project politically (politic speak for NO cash) and there doesn't seem to be anything new about the idea, why would it succeed when all others (inc. Queen Mary which is always bankrupt!) fail. Rotterdam is yet to be proven as a success although it is great to see the money being spent on her. If she fails surely that would be the death of such ideas.
The only one I know of that worked was a concrete replica of one of the Castle ships built on a dam in Bethlehem, Orange Free State in SA, it was only 1/50th of the size and comprised a restaurant ! Even the smaller ships tied up along the Thames - most of them go from one owner to another and seem to be permanently financially strapped.
She was my favourite ship to work on, so I really hope she has a happy ending and it would be lovely to see her go home.
PS Purists may want her newer cabin extension aft removed but I think as long as her funnels are sorted and a new aft mast put in place she would look good enough to eat ! She would also make more financial sense.
quote:Originally posted by mike sa:I read a piece today at Cybrecruises.com .PS Purists may want her newer cabin extension aft removed
PS Purists may want her newer cabin extension aft removed
I always wondered by P&O did not leave those large promenade deck windows more or less intact as they would have offered fantastic views (and light) for the cabins.
quote:Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:I always wondered by P&O did not leave those large promenade deck windows more or less intact as they would have offered fantastic views (and light) for the cabins.
They didn't want "peeking Toms" on passing ships to be able to take videos for the purpose of blackmailing adulterous P&O passengers.
Brian
[ 04-19-2007: Message edited by: Brian_O ]
quote:Originally posted by mike sa:I read a piece today at Cybrecruises.com .While a nice idea is it really likely, it seems the government are only prepared to support the project politically (politic speak for NO cash) and there doesn't seem to be anything new about the idea, why would it succeed when all others (inc. Queen Mary which is always bankrupt!) fail.
While a nice idea is it really likely, it seems the government are only prepared to support the project politically (politic speak for NO cash) and there doesn't seem to be anything new about the idea, why would it succeed when all others (inc. Queen Mary which is always bankrupt!) fail.
I think the biggest problem with the Queen Mary are the mistakes the Long Beach made with her durring her conversion. Today there are relatively few of her public rooms on dispay. I think if they had done something with her that would have highlighted her history and beauty then she would have been much more sucessful. Also I think that if the area aroung her had been bigger and had more that would have also helped her.
quote: why would it succeed when all others (inc. Queen Mary which is always bankrupt!) fail.
Mike sa
I'm not sure what your criteria for "success" is, but here in Japan HIKAWA MARU and STELLA POLARIS appeared to work reasonably well and were sustained for more than 45 years in HIKAWA MARU's case and more than 35 years for STELLA POLARIS. HIKAWA MARU is currently closed and has been transferred back to NYK who currently indicate that they will renovate the ship for continued preservation and exhibition into the future.
The definition of success has to be a somewhat limited one, I think, but these examples and QUEEN MARY seem to show that in the late 20th century at least, the right ship, put in the right location and with the right sponsorship, could achieve some degree of success. However I do concede that given the way in which ships deteriorate and need maintenance, and given all the competing entertainment options that people now have available to them, museum ships such as ROTTERDAM and KUNGSHOLM are not really going to be wildly successful.
quote:Originally posted by Indarra:Mike saI'm not sure what your criteria for "success" is, but here in Japan HIKAWA MARU and STELLA POLARIS appeared to work reasonably well and were sustained for more than 45 years in HIKAWA MARU's case and more than 35 years for STELLA POLARIS. HIKAWA MARU is currently closed and has been transferred back to NYK who currently indicate that they will renovate the ship for continued preservation and exhibition into the future. The definition of success has to be a somewhat limited one, I think, but these examples and QUEEN MARY seem to show that in the late 20th century at least, the right ship, put in the right location and with the right sponsorship, could achieve some degree of success. However I do concede that given the way in which ships deteriorate and need maintenance, and given all the competing entertainment options that people now have available to them, museum ships such as ROTTERDAM and KUNGSHOLM are not really going to be wildly successful.
I do agree that neither the SS Rotterdam or the MS Kungsholm would do very well financially as simply museum ships. This is why the 5-Star hotel option is so important for the ships' upkeep and maintainance. Not to mention the success of the resturants and theatre options, if done correctly and creatively.
If the Queen Mary was left intact(with the exception of combining cabins to form larger units), it would have paid for itself greatly than it is now.
The original Oriana could have done very well also in this regard if the previous Janpanese owners didn't gut the ships' cabin areas. If they had only restored the SS Oriana to its 1960s appearance, and enlarge the cabin space to form luxury units, the ship might still be around.
Dispite the setbacks that the Queen Many has gone through over the past 40 years, I am quite glad that she is still with us today, and it has become an example of the living history of the classic oceanliner of the 20th Century. So to is the SS Great Britain. However, had the RMS Olympic been around today, it would be the most famous of all of the oceanliner museum/hotel attactions.
Maybe someday, someone could construct a 4th Olympic Class oceanliner that would combine the best of the Titanic/Olympic to create a decour that would either meet or exceed them both. No it would not sail legally. But it would be the only 4-Funnel ship to uphold the living history of the White Star Line, aside from the SS Nomadic. But that's just a dream for the time being.
[ 04-19-2007: Message edited by: Redlinekid2 ]
I had forgotten about the 2 in Japan.
A 5 star hotel is well and fine but QM has never fared well, the location ofr a hotel room does not always mean the waterfront and most of the public simply would not accept small and old etc and still pay the price. If you then have to rip out the interior to provide a product that is acceptable to a 5 star market it defeats the purpose of saving the ship in the first place. Kungholm has by hotel standards very small suites and cabins, god forbid the rip them out.
I'd love to see her work but generally these thngs don't, I really look forward to see hwat happens with the Rotterdam - perhaps she can show a way forward that then more of these stunners will be saved.
quote: However I do concede that given the way in which ships deteriorate and need maintenance, and given all the competing entertainment options that people now have available to them, museum ships such as ROTTERDAM and KUNGSHOLM are not really going to be wildly successful.
Well, Rotterdam will not be just a museumship with a restaurant or so. There will be part of her used as a museum, but mosly she will be used as part of the Albeda College, a university. And for both ships, they are going back to the country where they are originated so people will be more interested in them (same as Hikawa Maru for example) as a museum. Queen Mary is totally different. In her working life she never visited Long Beach, the people who live their do not have this connection. It was just a stupid place to put her.
quote:Originally posted by Robertdam: Queen Mary is totally different. In her working life she never visited Long Beach, the people who live their do not have this connection. It was just a stupid place to put her.
I understand your thoughts on this, but I think that at least Southern California's warm, dry climate has actually helped to preserve QUEEN MARY for the 40 years she's been berthed there. If she had been sitting in a cold, damper climate such as the UK, would she have lasted as well?
Maybe someone with better knowledge of this can weigh in with their thoughts.
Rich
With the Chinese having been the last owners of the ss Oriana and the resulting storm damage which led to her being broken up it is interesting to see what they have done with the 1962 French built 14,000 grt passenger/cargo ship Ancerville.
This ship was named Ming Hau when they purchased her in 1973 and at one time cruised from Australia.
She is now berthed at Shenzhen, China, in an area named Seaworld Park, and has had a lot of alterations made to her original superstructure.
Although she was at a berth, the area around her has now been filled in and a golf course has been created.
She is completely land locked !
The ship offers 4 star hotel accommodation, bars and restaurants plus the Sea World park area around her also has a varied selection of restaurants and bars.
Shenzhen is now linked to Hong Kong by a bridge which opened on the 15th April 2007 so they will no doubt see an increase in the number of tourists in that area.
The new bridge is about 5.5kms long and the crossing will take about 15 minutes.
Neil ( Bob )
quote:Originally posted by Robertdam:Queen Mary is totally different. In her working life she never visited Long Beach, the people who live their do not have this connection. It was just a stupid place to put her.
Queen Mary is totally different. In her working life she never visited Long Beach, the people who live their do not have this connection. It was just a stupid place to put her.
Also the many local people that actually sailed on her and remember her history are dying off and trying to get the younger 'masses' interested in her or anything historical for that matter is very difficult.
The City of Long Beach is not going to pour any more money into her (the $70 plus million dollars has been enough for them-nearly 1 billion in today's dollars) even though she is a symbol of the city. Cities have different priorities today w/all the social programs to support that did not exist 30-40 years ago. A 70 plus year old former British ocean liner is sadly not at the top of the list.
It is interesting that her original owner/operator is now based about one hour north of her current location.
quote:Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:Also the many local people that actually sailed on her and remember her history are dying off and trying to get the younger 'masses' interested in her or anything historical for that matter is very difficult.The City of Long Beach is not going to pour any more money into her (the $70 plus million dollars has been enough for them-nearly 1 billion in today's dollars) even though she is a symbol of the city. Cities have different priorities today w/all the social programs to support that did not exist 30-40 years ago. A 70 plus year old former British ocean liner is sadly not at the top of the list. It is interesting that her original owner/operator is now based about one hour north of her current location.
I would love to see someone invest around $500 Million into the restoration of the Queen Mary, plus the reconstruction of her powerplant and navigational equipment. If they could restore the ship's public interior spaces to its 1936 configuation, as well as rebuilding the former 2nd Class Cabins into luxury suites. The former 3rd Class cabins, and Crew Quarters could be rebuilt as an extention of the public musuem space. Not to mention the ship's bridge restored to working order once again.
Oh how I would love to see this dream come true, and hopefully the same thing will happen to the SS United States.
Alang is a place that I don't want the SS United States to go to.
The SS Norway experience is more than enough for me. And to see the breakup of my favorite ship gives me nightmares.
quote:Originally posted by mike sa:IndarraA 5 star hotel is well and fine but QM has never fared well, the location ofr a hotel room does not always mean the waterfront and most of the public simply would not accept small and old etc and still pay the price. If you then have to rip out the interior to provide a product that is acceptable to a 5 star market it defeats the purpose of saving the ship in the first place. Kungholm has by hotel standards very small suites and cabins, god forbid the rip them out.I'd love to see her work but generally these thngs don't, I really look forward to see hwat happens with the Rotterdam - perhaps she can show a way forward that then more of these stunners will be saved.
I used to stay on The QM on a weekly basis, I enjoyed the smaller cabins etcThe problem I had was the room rates, when I first started staying there "my room" (I stayed in the same room each time, I think it was 423 or 432) cost me $120 a night inc breakfast, by the time I said enough it was over $240, being a ship nut I was willing to pay a little extra, but frankly I could get a room across the bay at the Marriot for way less than that.
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