One troubling thing I noticed on both ships was the amount of soot they both spewed into the air, and in the case of the Badger, the water. I have photos of the Norway leaving Miami behind obscured in a dense layer of smog that emanates from the ship. Similar photos I took on the badger show a thick, sooty cloud stretching from the ship to the horizon of lake Michigan. I also noticed a steady stream of dark gray slurry being pumped out the side of the Badger… I assume this was a coal-ash disposal system.

[ 08-01-2002: Message edited by: joe at travelpage ]

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Originally posted by Baker:
Here's a picture of Cunards good old "Carinthia" now "Fair Princess" in 1997 leaving Melbourne on a cruise. Nothing like the smell of oil and smoke ...

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The dumping of oil, waste, etc. off the new ships of companies like RCCL is far worse for the environment than some smoke.

I for one find the former very appalling but I do not put RCCL beyond such things...

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Originally posted by empressport:
Better off worrying about American's appetites for driving millions of gas guzzling SUV's, rather than the few classic steamships still remaining

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I agree.

The dilemma I’m wrestling with is whether I can really allow myself to continue enjoying these classic ships in good conscience. I wish there was some way to make them cleaner! I found Moodus2’s description of the light brown smoke to be especially interesting. I think the Norway’s smoke was this color most of the time. SS Badger’s smoke was heavy and black throughout the voyages we took.

Then there’s the issue of fuel consumption. If the Norway really does use as much fuel in a week’s cruise as the rest of Norwegian’s fleet combined, that is probably as good an argument as any for retiring her.

I was aboard a relatively new powdered-coal fired steamship, the "Energy Independence" which was in service hauling, of all things, coal between Baltimore and New England. I visited this ship and talked to the engineers, in the context of the coal-slurry-fired locomotive project. The problems in maritime use of pulverized coal are real.

The plume from the stacks was as clean as baby's breath, but there was a fine coal powder all over the engine room.

Our concept for the locomotive was to use clean pulverized coal combined with oil in a coal-oil liquid in a manner similar to its use on oil-fired steam locomotives. Our testbed was to be a "QJ-type" locomotive, newly made in China.

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so why should americans pay the
price for countries like china
who raise their noses about global warming and burn what fuel they like?

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…because the earth is slowly dying. Many countries, notably some in western Europe, are way ahead of the USA in curbing their greenhouse gas emissions. We in the US could join them in leading the world out of its current self-destructive reliance on power sources that harm our environment… we are economically in a position to do so. We are also a country whose attitudes and popular culture are often emulated by China, India, and other heavily polluted (and polluting) countries. If there is to be any hope of these countries beginning to clean up their acts, the US and western Europe must lead the way.

The more I think about this, the more I realize that for someone like me to be an environmental advocate and to take a cruise on a ship like the Norway would be as hypocritical as if I were to begin driving a Ford Expedition (or other SUV behemoth). This makes me sad, because I love the classic ships.

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Originally posted by Namlit:

…because the earth is slowly dying. Many countries, notably some in western Europe, are way ahead of the USA in curbing their greenhouse gas emissions.

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The USA in fact comes pretty far down the list, but the UK is nearly twice as far down The Scandanavian countries & Canada are the top leaders in this, perhaps we should take some lessons.

If the Western World didn't rely on China so much for their cheap goods, and were prepared to pay more, or produce their own goods and build and maintain their own heavy plant then perhaps China wouldn't be as bad as it is. But they are not bottom!

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Originally posted by Namlit:
I’m curious about just how badly these otherwise wonderful vintage ships pollute our environment.

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I think empressport is right. 2000 people in cars on there way to work, or driving on vacation, create many times more the pollution level than one SS Norway does, carrying 2000 people!