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It took about 18 months for them to investigate the Norwegian Dream's collision - and that was a more clear cut matter.
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"January 4, 2001: It was reported that an investigation in to the cause of the sinking of SEABREEZE seems unlikely.
The former Premier Cruise Lines ship sank off the coast of Virginia last month with 34 crew rescued and no casualties. Under International law, Panama, as the vessel's county of registry, is responsible for investigating the incident.
Lacking the resources to fully investigate the reason as to why SeaBreeze sank in astorm last month after the engine room flooded may never be fully known. A reporternoted that a deep-sea dive would be necessary to learn why the flood occurred, and iswarranted because SeaBreeze sank under questionable circumstances"
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So it looks like we will ever know!
I'm sure the captain had calculated that the two Coast Guard choppers would be willing to fly to the extreme end of their range in perilous conditions and carry twice their rated capacity in order to help carry out the fiendish plan. Maybe we should check the pilot's bank accounts as well?
It's amazing how far people will go in the day and age to make a buck...
By the way Barry, what was the "shifty looking" engineer doing in the video that would help support this theory?
Perhaps I overstepped a bit by assuming the Engineer was a bit shifty. I guess the reason why I said that is because I worked on Greek ships with Greek officers and engineers, and I have seen first-hand some pretty shifty activities. I usually have a pretty good discernment of people when I meet them and talk with them. I am the first to say...I could be wrong, but in talking with this guy on the SeaBreeze, and from past experience with Greek sailors, it was my impression that this guy could potentially have the character to scuttle the ship given the order to, and a hefty payoff. For example, when I worked on the mvEmpress (Royal Pacific), the Captain was Greek, and having worked with him, I saw firt-hand that he was shifty, and made deals under the table. He would lie to port authorities and passengers. I saw this happen. Also this same Captain was in command when his ship was hit by a fishing trawler, and he was the first one off the ship in a lifeboat when he knew the ship would sink. He shrugged his shoulders when asked "what about the passengers?" He didn't care about the passengers...he just wanted off the ship. He made no announcements or effort to help in getting passengers safely off the ship.
If I were to scuttle the ship....before I pulled the plug, I would have sent out a distress call to see what the response would be...hearing that the Coast Guard was on it's way...THEN I would pull the plug.
Sure it was risky, but that makes it all the more believeable. It's just curious that something like this would happen while the ship is being deadheaded to South Carolina, and not at a time when there were cruise passengers aboard. It also curiously happened when the ship was in really rough weather and in deep ocean...too deep to cost-effectively investigate the sunken vessel. Why weren't the water-tight doors shut?? Why did the ship sink so fast? Exactly why was the ship being deadheaded to South Carolina, and not to where the other ships are tied up? Why was the ship sold to some unknown made up company called Cruise Ship Ventures 3 Corp? There are a lot of questions surrounding the SeaBreeze sinking.
The Engineer was not doing anything shifty in the video I have...I just thought that if CNN or ABC were to do a follow-up report on this incident, that this footage would be worth something to them.
Joe....I am only speculating...I don't know the absolute truth. Only the one or two crew members who may have pulled the plug would know the truth. I just hope that a serious investigation takes place before the insurance company does a payout.
quote:Originally posted by Barryboat:It's just curious that something like this would happen while the ship is being deadheaded to South Carolina, and not at a time when there were cruise passengers aboard.
I also found this fact somewhat miraculous! Mind you it could still have been caused by fate (carelessness?) rather than intention. I really don't know?
Thank god that she was not carrying a full crew and passengers - there would surely have been a great loss of life?
[This message has been edited by Malcolm (edited 01-14-2001).]
Several people mentioned watertight doors, but there were probably only two in the engineroom, one into each shaft tunnel, and that would'nt make much difference.
So there you have it...flooding into the engineroom which you cannot stop and which is too much for the pumps to control, causing an increasing list. Bad weather which as the ship loses power allows the seas to breach port holes (a hundred to one no deadlights were down) and the flooding into other compartments increases. Possibly the boiler(s) exploded as well causing damage. Finally, as her stability was probably not that great to start with - low on fuel and water and consumables - she would reach an angle of list and just keep on going.
Quite a number of ships over the years have been lost due to this reason including a couple of large tankers.
Hope that gives everyone something else to consider.....peter
Can the depths to the hulk of The Andrea Doria, and the serious risks to scuba divers be compared to the location of the Seabreeze?
Is it feasible for a skilled scuba diver to make it do the Ship. It appears to me that Insurance underwriters might be quite interested. Or will it call for Ballard and the underseas photo subs?
quote:Originally posted by Barryboat:Hey, I agree with you Joe...the length people will go to make a buck.Perhaps I overstepped a bit by assuming the Engineer was a bit shifty. I guess the reason why I said that is because I worked on Greek ships with Greek officers and engineers, and I have seen first-hand some pretty shifty activities. I usually have a pretty good discernment of people when I meet them and talk with them. I am the first to say...I could be wrong, but in talking with this guy on the SeaBreeze, and from past experience with Greek sailors, it was my impression that this guy could potentially have the character to scuttle the ship given the order to, and a hefty payoff. For example, when I worked on the mvEmpress (Royal Pacific), the Captain was Greek, and having worked with him, I saw firt-hand that he was shifty, and made deals under the table. He would lie to port authorities and passengers. I saw this happen. Also this same Captain was in command when his ship was hit by a fishing trawler, and he was the first one off the ship in a lifeboat when he knew the ship would sink. He shrugged his shoulders when asked "what about the passengers?" He didn't care about the passengers...he just wanted off the ship. He made no announcements or effort to help in getting passengers safely off the ship. If I were to scuttle the ship....before I pulled the plug, I would have sent out a distress call to see what the response would be...hearing that the Coast Guard was on it's way...THEN I would pull the plug.Sure it was risky, but that makes it all the more believeable. It's just curious that something like this would happen while the ship is being deadheaded to South Carolina, and not at a time when there were cruise passengers aboard. It also curiously happened when the ship was in really rough weather and in deep ocean...too deep to cost-effectively investigate the sunken vessel. Why weren't the water-tight doors shut?? Why did the ship sink so fast? Exactly why was the ship being deadheaded to South Carolina, and not to where the other ships are tied up? Why was the ship sold to some unknown made up company called Cruise Ship Ventures 3 Corp? There are a lot of questions surrounding the SeaBreeze sinking. The Engineer was not doing anything shifty in the video I have...I just thought that if CNN or ABC were to do a follow-up report on this incident, that this footage would be worth something to them. Joe....I am only speculating...I don't know the absolute truth. Only the one or two crew members who may have pulled the plug would know the truth. I just hope that a serious investigation takes place before the insurance company does a payout.
It sadens me with the closing of another cruise line, such as Premier and possibly Commordore Cruises. All in the name of the buck all the old classic ships are being scrapped, sold to small cruise lines and then the cruise line itself sinks. I speak highly of both Premier, (Dolphne) and Commordore Cruise lines. I wish Premier didn't sink and take passengers money such as from myself. Commordore at least made public notice of there legal and finacial situation and canceled future cruises and not have the passengers kick off the ships in strange cities or countries. In defense of both cruise lines and have travel on over 30 cruises from the biggest and the largest cruise lines, cleanliness and custumer service were excellant. The personal touches and the ratio of passengers to crew can bbe compared to the new ships and large cruise lines. I think Premier honestly tried to stay afloat but fell on hard times in a very fast past changing industry, with big new ships and corporate mergers. I think Premier had poor advertising, which is expensive, second ships that had remodeling and repair costs.Their advertising changed to rapidly, First they were the ship for the old time cruise ship lover, second the ship with new itineries that no one else offered, then they were the ship for children and the family. The last thing they tried was to change the names twice of the Company, then each of there ships. The last attempt was to repaint the ships again and do the Big Red Boat thing numbers I,II,III,VI and market the (7Star Service Plan) with a new image of excellant and more pampered services. I feel all these changes from brochures to paint , name and color changes and market appraoches all done over the period of two years is very costly when you are short of funds. I sailed on 5 of Premier Cruises and never found a complaint. I once had a soiled bedspread and a cabin with a/c problems both problems corrected during the cruise. I received a personal letter regarding my comments on my comment card mailed to me with a apology with a hand sign letter. When I would book my cruise via there 1-800- number, I always spoke to a person not a fax or computerized voice system. I like Carnival and RCCL is my favorite cruise line, but I don't feel bigger is always better. The older and smaller cruise lines have such a challenge to the big giants in the industry, yet could never handle such things as sex scandels, bodies being thrown off ledges, sewage spills and oil dumping in the Alaska and Panama Coast.The big cruises pay a fine, promise to do better and do more TV adds to promote business or just raise cruise ticket prices.It saddens me that most cruise lines sell tickets on volume, only a hand few would ever have a Premier or Commodore brochure or poster in the store window. The travel agency owned by AAA and many others would kindly say we do not sell tickets for either of these lines. I live in Miami the home of many of the operating offices for the cruises lines and I guess they get there foot in the door.I feel you should never forget where you came from, Admiral joined Chandris which later became Fantacy Cruises and it last old timer ship called the Britanis sailed on for years making money. The dumping of all their old ships and buying new and bigger ones formed the giant famed cruise line of today RCCL.I miss the old ladies of the sea, but I will still sail on the new cookie cut out ships that are all molded afte a giant bar of Safeguard soap. One last note about the Seabreeze and its sinking, it was heavily insured by Lloyd's of London. The company that owns it is a bank which was selling it to another company, here is the joke, a parent company of itself.
quote:Originally posted by Barryboat:I met the Engineer and I thought he was a bit shifty looking. From past experience with Greek sailors, it was my impression that this guy could potentially have the character to scuttle the ship given the order to, and a hefty payoff.
Barryboat, you cannot generalize,'shifty looking' is an opinion. Someone as well travelled as you should know that body language and facial expressions vary from culture to culture does as spoken/written language and cuisine.
I am not Greek, but it is racist and bigoted to assume all Greek sailors are dishonest.
[This message has been edited by desirod6 (edited 01-13-2001).]
quote:Originally posted by Barryboat:I guess the reason why I said that is because I worked on Greek ships with Greek officers and engineers, and I have seen first-hand some pretty shifty activities. I usually have a pretty good discernment of people when I meet them and talk with them. I am the first to say...I could be wrong, but in talking with this guy on the SeaBreeze, and from past experience with Greek sailors, it was my impression that this guy could potentially have the character to scuttle the ship given the order to, and a hefty payoff.
I guess the reason why I said that is because I worked on Greek ships with Greek officers and engineers, and I have seen first-hand some pretty shifty activities. I usually have a pretty good discernment of people when I meet them and talk with them. I am the first to say...I could be wrong, but in talking with this guy on the SeaBreeze, and from past experience with Greek sailors, it was my impression that this guy could potentially have the character to scuttle the ship given the order to, and a hefty payoff.
I hope this clears things up a little for you. I am by all means NOT bigoted, and yes I am well travelled all over the world...which is why I am not bigoted, because I respect the diversities in different cultures. But through my experience I can make overall judgements based on averages. Like I said, I could be wrong, and we may never know the absolute truth.
[This message has been edited by Barryboat (edited 01-14-2001).]
Possibly the salt water cooling line was damaged in Halifax so it would break mid-sea. A storm was unexpected.
She had passed USCG inspection not too long before Premier went under.
Ship brokers valued her as scrap. The SeawindCrown also in awful shape was valued at $12million.
Why was there smoke coming from the funnel when listing?
Why were the watertight compartments not closed? she could have remained partially afloat.
As far as deadlights over portholes, did the Sea Breeze have horizontal bulkheads?
Why else would they sail a broken down ship like that 200 miles from a coast in deep water?
If not for the storm, all the crew [34] could have abaondoned ship in one lifeboat with room to spare.
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