It is possible to contain them if all Navies in the area were serious about the threat, theretically they could create a Naval blocade of the entire coast preventing pirate ships from leaving and using force to prevent them. Unfortunaltely the only solution with pirates is to use force. They are certainly not using the ransome money for innocent transactions like the purchasing of food or medical supplies.

It is possible to take control of the area with AWAC aircraft to intercept signals, and helo capable ships to respond with force to send them fleeing back to their coast.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sutho:
The American ship taken with the Captain held hostage and Navy rescue was en route to Mombassa and obviously had to transit close to the pirate waters.

It is possible to contain them if all Navies in the area were serious about the threat, theretically they could create a Naval blocade of the entire coast preventing pirate ships from leaving and using force to prevent them. Unfortunaltely the only solution with pirates is to use force. They are certainly not using the ransome money for innocent transactions like the purchasing of food or medical supplies.

It is possible to take control of the area with AWAC aircraft to intercept signals, and helo capable ships to respond with force to send them fleeing back to their coast.

Just think how successfull Britain came in WWII to combating U-Boats in the Atlantic. They used methods to interept triangulate the U-Boats reporting signlans and within hours had aircraft on the scene to prosecute the target, not only that every radar target was investigated and control of the seas was maintained through a professional and highly functioning network of surveillance measures. If it could be done in WWII, with the technology we have today pirates can most definately be contained, it is only a question of why are countries not bothered.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ernst:
If it only were that simple.
The concerned area is quite large and it's of course not about whether one can detect small boats on radar or not - one has to find out whether it's a pirate vessel or not.

---

Which would have been exactly the quandary with the fishing dhow the Dutch released fishermen from today.

This article also shows up other problems with the comments :- "The spokesman said the pirates were set free because Nato does not have a maritime detainment policy, meaning Dutch national law would apply in this case. "They can only arrest them if the pirates are from the Netherlands, the victims are from the Netherlands, or if they are in Netherlands waters," he said."

The pirate captured in the Maersk Alabama case is supposedly going to the US to be tried, but there is some confusion as to whether he is even old enough to stand trial as an adult; so there would be no point.
The French are sending a number of pirates for trial in Kenya - but why should the Kenyans have to thereafter pay for the pirates 'well being' in jail?

quote:

---

Originally posted by PamM:

Which would have been exactly the quandary with the fishing dhow the Dutch released fishermen from today.

This article also shows up other problems with the comments :- "The spokesman said the pirates were set free because Nato does not have a maritime detainment policy, meaning Dutch national law would apply in this case. "They can only arrest them if the pirates are from the Netherlands, the victims are from the Netherlands, or if they are in Netherlands waters," he said."

The pirate captured in the Maersk Alabama case is supposedly going to the US to be tried, but there is some confusion as to whether he is even old enough to stand trial as an adult; so there would be no point.
The French are sending a number of pirates for trial in Kenya - but why should the Kenyans have to thereafter pay for the pirates 'well being' in jail?

Pam

---

Very interesting. As far as I know every nation can in principle prosecute piracy exercising universal jurisdiction but I guess there is (much) more to that.

If a Navy can maintain a real time communication and surveillance network along the coast then it is very easy to control the area and possible to obtain an ID within hours of detection.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sutho:
[...]

If a Navy can maintain a real time communication and surveillance network along the coast then it is very easy to control the area and possible to obtain an ID within hours of detection.
[...]

---

No, it's not that simple at all. It's not always the case that the pirates are 'caught in the act' so that on can just fire. It would be necessary not only to board but also to search many vessels - and there are legal and practical limitations to do that.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sutho:
[...]
Even warships opening fire with main guns to send them fleeing back to the coast is enough to help. The pirates will get sick of it and lose interest if every time they go out they quickly find they are hunted down.[...]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ernst:

As said, you can not just fire on any small boat.

---

The rules of engagement would have to be set to automatically determine all vessels off the Somali coast as hostile. By doing this a Navy can set up an exclusion zone off the coast prohibiting vessels from entering international waters. Pirates have demonstrated hostile intent to innocent civillians who use international waters, therefore prohibiting any Somali vessel or ship to leave an exclusion zone from their coast would work.

The alternate to that would be to let them go and let their lawlessness to spread like a cancer to the rest of the Seas and Oceans surrounding Somalia and expose hundreds of merchent seaman to attack.

These pirates pose a direct and real threat to all shipping in the area. They dont use their ransoms for ligitimate purchases and medical supplies or food. When world peace and trade has progressed so much since the days of old and the old pirates, why let Somalia drag us back to that day and age.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frosty 4:
If we have to go back to the days of old when pirates were hung for piracy on the high seas so be it. All this political correctness has to stop somewhere.

---

So far the international naval fleet have killed some 6 pirates including the 3 killed in the rescue of the US hostage Captain (and good on him, very brave and huge pat on the back), they also managed to kill over 45 totally innocent seamen / fishermen who just happened to be in their own waters plying their own trade in their usual way. So much for any type of justice by any definition. Of course the general public does not want to hear that their navies have killed innocents by accident so no doubt these deaths are not reported in the west. How many innocent crew have been killed by pirates ? To my knowledge about 3. Not that numbers makes it an excuse at all.

Yes piracy in any form is wrong, totally wrong and to be abhorred and condemned, however our response to it needs to carefully thought out and killing innocents is a price not worth paying. Or at least should not be if we consider ourselves just, humane and fair.

We also need to consider why piracy is taking place, who was it who led to the total lack of government in Somalia ? Which western governments were involved, we all know who they were - I am not excusing acts of piracy at all, I outright condemn them, but where you have a situation created by the "west" where people have no food, no income and no hope it is to some degree understandable that people come under the influence of basically bad people and turn to this as a way to support their families, not that it is right, but when you have no hope of anything else what so ever it is understandable that you turn to desperate measures. And again I condemn outright any form of piracy. And if you are looking for someone to blame - well look to your own governments in the west, they are the ones who allowed these circumstances to develop and this is the result of those policies.

How to fix, well it is quite obvious that no number of warships will fix the problem unless you are prepared to be totally barbaric which is at best a war crime especially considering the reasons why the country went to pot in the first place. The only reason they are even getting involved is for totally selfish reasons, nothing to do with the welfare or well-being of the people suffering as a result of past issues.

The problem has to fixed at source which means engaging with the government to remove the underlining cause of the problem, you can slaughter 50 pirates tomorrow but another 150 will take their place unless you do. So what do you do - A bomb the whole country ?

In the meantime either travel in convoy or avoid the area altogether as Maersk and MSC and others are doing for instance.

You reap what you sow, just look at the totally inadequate policy of the West in the DRC, Zimbabwe, Burundi etc and of course in Somalia and even Africa in general. Who armed Idi Amin ? Who interfered in Kenya ? Who was it who supported dictators in Liberia ? (now of course they are in the Hague - hippocrites ?). Who buys the blood diamonds ? Who supports slave labour in the sub saharan region to get raw minerals cheap ? Oh yes now because it suits the west to shoot them out of the water.......

Murdering innocents is not the answer - many of whom are in their teens, young kids with no options and no hope, but dealt with properly perhaps some hope for the future at least if not theirs then maybe their kids. So go ahead, use your naval power to kill and slaughter - so brave and so wise but it will not provide a cure.

Either help fix the problem properly and permanently or just get out and stay out permanently. Killing is not the answer.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frosty 4:
There are probably subs in the area. If they monitor suspected "Mother Ships" and see them launch the attack crafts the pirates use,then a few well placed torpedoes should do the trick. With no Mother Ship the pirates can't venture too far from their bases. Enough of this stuff!!
F4

---

For pirates to be operating as far out as the Seychelles, they are getting help and somoene is turning a blind eye to it.

I think you misunderstood, I absolutely was not taking a jab at the US at all, quite the opposite. "The Western Powers" very much include Europe not just the US and lets face it other than 1 misguided intervention in Somalia the US has not been that active in the area until very recently. So there was no US bashing at all, especially as I see it as my second home having lived there for 9 years. Several countires have been active in Somalia and surrounding areas both historically and more recently - then of course there are the ones who do nothing but just talk. We also have to accept that it seems no one is really trying to resolve the issues themselves on the ground, a rattling missles at anyone is not a solution to hungry bellies and abject poverty.

And just to confirm the Gulf of Aden is totally within Somali and Yemen's territorial waters so it is not nessersarily the case of free access to international waters. And I again condemn in absolute terms all acts of piracy but to cure it you have to remove the causes of it, unless of course you are prepared to patrol the area for ever or militarily obliterate the coastal populations - I fully suspect that those who are pirates at the moment (other than the king pins) - if you like the pirate crews - would be much happier being doctors, teachers, farmers etc than risking their lives for little reward (as they no doubt get very little of the ransoms) undertaking these horrid acts.

As for our electricity (it was nice of you to ask) we are doing very well thankyou and investment in that area continues - other than a period of a few weeks in January last year there has been no repeat - at least not in Durban.

According to Interpol you are more likely to be stabbed in London than in SA (and we have a crime problem but it tends to be to a large extent within the old townships and it very rare a tourist is effected), Africa is a huge place, and the vast majority of it is stable, safe and pleasent to visit especially for Americans, we get thousands of them here and they keep coming back. Granted would not want to visit Somalia, Sudan etc at the moment but even crazy Libya is becoming the trendt place to go with increasing numbers of cruise ships visiting (albeit there have been some visa issues but then they are crazy!).