Independence out of Southampton; Voyager and Brilliance out of Barcelona; Navigator out of Barcelona and Malaga; Vision out of Copenhagen, Athens and Istanbul; Jewel out of Harwich; Splendour out of Venice; and Legend out of Civitavecchia.

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Originally posted by dmwnc1:
With the price of jet fuel on the way up I wonder how much airfare will set you back just to get to your ship in Europe in 2009 ?

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"Europe". Cruising's new Caribbean. I hope they are prepared with all that comes with becoming a major mass-market cruise destination.

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Depends on what's meant; and I also think they should *not* make many changes. There are a number of natural limitations that cannot be addressed without destroying the destination. Here are a couple of examples of what I mean:

a) at Santorini there is a very clear limit to the number of people who can use the cablecar from the tender port up to Fira town (I estimate it at just over 600 people per hour in one direction). The only way that can be increased would be by building a new cablecar - and even if that was done, where would the people go? The principal attraction is to walk around Fira town, or to go to Oia village a few miles away. There two places are the size they are, and are already crowded. Enlarging them won't work.

b) at Naples there is a limit to the number of people who can go to Capri, and that's the number of places available in the hydrofoils/jet boats. Also at Naples there is a natural limit to the number of people who can do the Amalfi Coast drive, and that's the capacity of the road itself. You can't keep adding more coaches, it'll clog up; and you can't change the road, that would alter the nature of experience.

Then there are other issues. It's already established that there are clear health risks (mainly to local populations) arising from too-large ships arriving at ports. Having 40 coaches trundle along a road in 15 minutes raises sulphur dioxide levels (and levels of other pollutants) much more than having just 10 coaches trundle along the same road in the same period. I expect that some of the city authorities will take action over this sooner or later.

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Originally posted by Tom Burke:
...the coming recession. I think this is going to be much worse than everyone expects, coupled as it will be with dramatically rising fuel and food prices.

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The figures in this article are interesting:

Housing Crash

You can see how us Brits have less disposable income than American's, pay more for gas, pay more tax and have higher interest rates. This explains why much UK cruising is still not 'mass market', it's 'middle class'.

I'm sure that American cruise ships could cut their fares quite dramatically if required and still make a good profit. Even the mass-market lines such as NCL nad RCI are generally still showing fares of £100+ per day in Europe (inside cabin,no flights) which is not unlike the likes of Cunard and P&O.

Still, the great thing about ships, opposed to land based Hotels and resorts, is that they can quickly be deployed to where the people and money are.

[ 03-20-2008: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

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Still, the great thing about ships, opposed to land based Hotels and resorts, is that they can quickly be deployed to where the people and money are.

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This will increasingly be Asia. I can't help but think that the long-term future for Star Cruises is very bright.

RCI, thinks the key point is attracting passengers from the people who never cruised before. They might be right.

But I am seeing some disturbing points. Celebrity twelve days in the Med, in summer for 475 euros. That´s an example of whats going on the market. HAL 740 euros, Cunard 800 on the QV.

Local travel agents are getting quite nervous at least in Spain. And I assume it happens everywhere. Are they launching too many ships?. The other point is the saturation in ports.

As someone has mentioned it, it´s a nightmare getting at Santorini and having to wait for hours to get up if more than two ships are in the bay. Same with trains from Livorno, same with Naples, or even at Malta, where there are not enought traxi drivers to cope with it.

[ 04-06-2008: Message edited by: Iberian Cruiser ]

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Originally posted by Iberian Cruiser:
All I have to say, is that we are having some unbelievable offers right now for the summer.

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
Oh? Have they reached the UK anyone?

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Originally posted by Globaliser:
Do you mean the offers, or summer?

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Offers: I've not seen any great deals but maybe I've not looked hard enough?

I keep getting E-mails fron NCL boasting that I can have a 7 Night Med fly-cruise for £745 pp (inside cabin) but that's not cheap enough to really excite me!

[ 04-06-2008: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

I had told prices without checking them, but they are quite approximate to what I had told. Then lots of Pullmantur, Iberocruceros, Quail Cruises....and other local departures from Barcelona.

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Originally posted by Iberian Cruiser:
QV 25st Aug 990€.

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This is £ 1,799 here! but to compare like for like I expect without flights and TA discount/WClub etc it could go down to say £1300/£1400, but certainly not as low as £750, that is less than half the figure quoted here. I do not wish to check on the others seeing that For a mere outside for 12 nights they are asking £2,200 way OTT.

I would rather do the Spanish lines except they do the same 'ole itins

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Originally posted by PamM:
...but to compare like for like I expect without flights and TA discount/WClub etc it could go down to say £1300/£1400, but certainly not as low as £750, that is less than half the figure quoted here.

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Originally posted by Tom Burke:

a) at Santorini there is a very clear limit to the number of people who can use the cablecar from the tender port up to Fira town (I estimate it at just over 600 people per hour in one direction). The only way that can be increased would be by building a new cablecar - and even if that was done, where would the people go? The principal attraction is to walk around Fira town, or to go to Oia village a few miles away. There two places are the size they are, and are already crowded. Enlarging them won't work.

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You can tender into Athinios saving the queue up, which is what we did, but then you have to take the coach/taxi/bus back to Fira [via the Winery of course]. But still this does nothing for the crowds in Fira or Oia, the former is just a mere squash at times & need fight one's way along the streets [some of which are just narrow lanes only feet wide]. The number of passengers in this sort of port needs to be limited. However in the large cities, Barcelona etc it makes no odds.

Why does everyone rush off to Capri - I am not sure many at all did on the times we have called. Naples is nice to wander about itself [sit and traffic watch bet you can't spot a car without a dent], and then there is the train to Pompeii.

There are so many ports but all these ships seem to follow each other about. However, as long as they stay in the Med that's fine, just don't bung up the Fjords. Why don't some of the mega ships spread out and go to the Canaries.

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Originally posted by PamM:
This is £ 1,799 here! but to compare like for like I expect without flights and TA discount/WClub etc it could go down to say £1300/£1400, but certainly not as low as £750, that is less than half the figure quoted here.

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It is one thing for Cunard to stop you from booking in the US (though people do it anyway), but between EU countries I'm pretty sure it's illegal. Someone really ought to make a big stink about this sometime.

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Originally posted by PamM:
I would rather do the Spanish lines except they do the same 'ole itins

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There are lots of places in the Med I haven't been, but the Spanish lines don't really go to them. Mostly they are the preserve of expensive lines like Oceania.

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Originally posted by PamM:
Why does everyone rush off to Capri - I am not sure many at all did on the times we have called. Naples is nice to wander about itself [sit and traffic watch bet you can't spot a car without a dent], and then there is the train to Pompeii.

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Capri is beautiful but overrun with tourists, same with Sorrento. Of course, we are tourists too, but we want to be the only ones around!

[ 04-06-2008: Message edited by: dougnewman ]

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Originally posted by dougnewman:

Capri is beautiful but overrun with tourists, same with Sorrento. Of course, we are tourists too, but we want to be the only ones around!

[ 04-06-2008: Message edited by: dougnewman ]

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The Med cruise we did 5-years ago in early May was enough-we'll try another month next time.
As an example Florence was a absolute zoo w/thousands of tourists everywhere. I don't know how the locals can stand it but I guess it brings in money.

I also wonder why Cunard doesn´t allow website bookings if you click the website from Spain, or Fred Olsen. There should be a single market, and single prices.

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
Offers: I've not seen any great deals but maybe I've not looked hard enough?

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Originally posted by Iberian Cruiser:
I wonder why lines have different pricing policies in the different countries.

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Good question. They regard different countries as different markets, so have different fare structure. For example levels of taxation and average incomes may vary etc. not to mention supply and demand.

NCL once did a '2 passengers for the price of one' for all there cruises but only applicable to American guests.