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Author Topic: Princess heading for Antarctica
greybeard
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Member # 5284

posted 09-05-2006 04:52 AM      Profile for greybeard     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
According to the (London) Daily Telegraph today . . .

Liner takes tourist hordes to Antarctica
By Nick Squires in Sydney
(Filed: 05/09/2006)

A giant cruise ship is set to sail into Antarctic waters, changing the face of tourism in the world's great wildernesses.

The Golden Princess, which can carry 3,800 passengers and crew and weighs 109,000 tons, is 10 times bigger than most of the cruise ships which ply Antarctica's seas. Its first voyage in January will herald a new era in the commercial exploitation of the Great White South.

A small boat in the Antarctic
Until now only small ships carrying a few tourists have been landing in Antarctica

"It will alter the whole complexion of Antarctic tourism," said Alan Hemmings, a polar policy specialist at the University of Canterbury, New Zealand, and an official observer at Antarctic Treaty meetings.

"This will undermine the ethos of small ships and small visitor numbers, which has prevailed until now."

Once the domain of doughty explorers such as Scott, Shackleton and Amundsen, Antarctica is becoming increasingly crowded. An explosion in tourism, an American-built "ice highway" to the South Pole, an air link from Australia and plans to establish more scientific bases are all part of a dramatic rise in human activity.

The number of tourists visiting Antarctica has leapt in the past 15 years from about 5,000 to 30,000.

The arrival of super-liners has prompted fears that in the event of an accident a rescue operation would be all but impossible in such an inhospitable environment.

The Golden Princess
The Golden Princess’s 3,800 passengers will not be exposed to any risk

"A vessel like the Golden Princess is not ice-strengthened and will be operating in a part of the world where there is poor hydrographical information," said Mr Hemmings. "You'd have to try to rescue nearly 4,000 people."

British delegates at an international Antarctic meeting in Edinburgh in June lobbied to prohibit giant liners from the continent.

Mike Richardson, the head of the British delegation, said that if one sank or ran aground it would create an "unthinkable disaster" on the scale of the Titanic or the Exxon Valdez.

Other Antarctic cruise ships are typically former research vessels carrying up to 250 passengers.

Julie Benson, a spokesman for California-based Princess Cruises, said passengers aboard the 210-metre Golden Princess would "absolutely not" be exposed to any risk. The ship was fully equipped for the journey, she said.

"Princess maintains the highest safety standards for all our ships, wherever they may be deployed around the world."

She also denied that the liner would pose any danger to the environment.

The Antarctic and Southern Ocean Coalition, an environmental lobby group, warns that "there is essentially no constraint on where you can go, what you can do, and how many of you can do it … mass commercial tourism has now arrived in the Antarctic".


Posts: 587 | From: London | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
annnthony
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posted 09-05-2006 08:25 AM      Profile for annnthony   Email annnthony   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Golden Princess pax. capacity is 2600, not 3800!
Posts: 315 | From: westwood,n.j.,USA | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
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posted 09-05-2006 08:37 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'd love to go to Antarctic, but I do not think evberybody else should be able to go too.

I think the Marco Polo (with her ice strengthened Hull) would be my choice. I assume that GP will not be going far into the region but just skimming it?


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Sutho
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posted 09-05-2006 08:45 AM      Profile for Sutho   Email Sutho   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Its an excellent idea and will probably replace Alaska if those taxes come into force and push the cruise lines away.

If the ships can handle the icy waters of Alaska then there is no reason they cant handle the icy waters of Antarctica.


Posts: 1055 | From: Newcastle, Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Cambodge
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posted 09-05-2006 09:50 AM      Profile for Cambodge   Email Cambodge   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sutho: A naive observation.

In Alaskan waters, in the bays mostly, there are big blocks of ice, chunks of glaciers and such. They would provide no threat to a ship of any size.

But in Antarctica there are icebergs of gigantic size. A friend while on an honest-to-God exploration expedition many years back observed one berg, a floating block which had broken off the Ross Ice Shelf, as "as big as the District of Columbia" (10 miles on a side). There are many such true icebergs in the Antarctic.

Many such blocks are also shown in Al Gore's film, "An Inconvenient Truth," as they are breaking off more frequently at this time.

Contact with such a ice mass could spoil the whole day for those aboard a thin-skinned cruise ship. Much different from Glacier Bay.


Posts: 2149 | From: St. Michaels MD USA , the town that fooled the British! | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
greybeard
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posted 09-05-2006 09:51 AM      Profile for greybeard     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by annnthony:
The Golden Princess pax. capacity is 2600, not 3800!

3,800 is total capacity, pax plus crew, as the original article stated.

[ 09-05-2006: Message edited by: greybeard ]


Posts: 587 | From: London | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
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posted 09-05-2006 10:06 AM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Alaska is VERY different to the Antarctica. It is just a bad idea to go there with such a big ship. Not so much for the ice (but also! - this is indeed different to Alaska) but more other reasons.

Also, the Marco Polo is actually already quite large if not too large for a reasonalbe operation in this region.

[ 09-05-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frosty 4
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posted 09-05-2006 10:57 AM      Profile for Frosty 4   Email Frosty 4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not sure which is closer to Antartica -Australia or Chile(Horn) . We did see some ships in Ushuhia(spelling)from National Geographic and others that were going there. These were small ships. I think it was about 700 miles from SA.
Enviormental issues seem to be the big thing as polution from tourism would happen.
Our world is shrinking and we cruisers have fewer places to see. Hence my post on new places (itineraries)that you would like the cruise lines to consider.
Frosty 4

Posts: 2531 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
greybeard
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posted 09-05-2006 11:26 AM      Profile for greybeard     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cambodge:
Sutho: A naive observation.

. . . in Antarctica there are icebergs of gigantic size. A friend while on an honest-to-God exploration expedition many years back observed one berg, a floating block which had broken off the Ross Ice Shelf, as "as big as the District of Columbia" (10 miles on a side). There are many such true icebergs in the Antarctic.

.



Should show up on the radar, then


Posts: 587 | From: London | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
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posted 09-05-2006 11:29 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cambodge:
...many years back observed one berg, a floating block which had broken off the Ross Ice Shelf, as "as big as the District of Columbia" .

Maybe the captain was lost and it was Columbia?


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
annnthony
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Member # 3733

posted 09-05-2006 11:35 AM      Profile for annnthony   Email annnthony   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry GB, but, I only noticed paragraph nine which states 3800 passengers, not 3800 passengers and crew.
Posts: 315 | From: westwood,n.j.,USA | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
PamM
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posted 09-05-2006 01:36 PM      Profile for PamM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The article is misleading in that the 3rd para leads one to believe pax will be landing; not the case. It is a one off trip, which is not available on Princess' website, but the info is elsewhere. I cannot see how anyone wants to visit such an area on this type of vessel anyway, quite ridiculous. Princess say all are safe.. yup just like all pax on any vessel that has ever sunk or caught fire were 'safe'.

Say she caught fire of Antarctica.. sprung a leak? anything.. who is there to assist? No-one; unlike in Alaska waters. Are Princess going to equip her with sufficient cold water life jackets? Presumably they are 'testing' the waters. The pax booked on this trip can afford a proper trip to the area, on a more suitable vessel... so why on earth a Grand Class ship?

Pam


Posts: 12176 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pascal
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posted 09-05-2006 01:37 PM      Profile for Pascal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Frosty 4:
I'm not sure which is closer to Antartica -Australia or Chile(Horn) .
Frosty 4


You can be sure Chile is much closer : only 580 nautical miles from South America mainland to Antartica mainland, compared to 1400 nm from Tasmania or NZ.

Posts: 1371 | From: Aix en Provence | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Globaliser
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posted 09-05-2006 02:31 PM      Profile for Globaliser     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Pascal:
You can be sure Chile is much closer : only 580 nautical miles from South America mainland to Antartica mainland, compared to 1400 nm from Tasmania or NZ.
Cape Horn is more or less opposite the Antarctic Peninsula which juts out towards South America. The Peninsula is therefore where most of these smaller ships head for when they set out from Ushuaia etc.

Posts: 1869 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Globaliser
First Class Passenger
Member # 4153

posted 09-05-2006 02:32 PM      Profile for Globaliser     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PamM:
Say she caught fire of Antarctica.. sprung a leak? anything.. who is there to assist? No-one; unlike in Alaska waters. Are Princess going to equip her with sufficient cold water life jackets?
Anyway, one doesn't have to be a catastrophist to see what a bad idea it is.

The anti-fouling paint on ships is already killing the marine wildlife.


Posts: 1869 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
dmwnc1
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posted 09-05-2006 09:06 PM      Profile for dmwnc1   Email dmwnc1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
On my 5 cruises to Alaska I remember people just never going out on deck, viewing the scenery from their protected balconies, and seemingly just bored with the scenery and touristy towns. I just cant see 2800 passengers chasing around protected wildlife in this fragile eco-system with their digital cameras and drinking hot chocolate and split-pea soup.

This itinerary does not appear to actually hit the mainland, but outter islands?

http://www.princess.com/pb/itineraryDetails.do?voyageCode=5703&date=&noOfPax=2& definition_name=

The furthest it goes is Deception Island...

http://www.monolith.com.au/Deception_Island/map.gif


This...

http://www.antarcticaonline.com/antarctica/photos/photoant.htm

...SHOULD be protected.

Antarctica is not a scientific curiosity but a key part of planet Earth. Processes taking place there affect the world's climate and its oceans, and link the continent to all corners of the globe. In understanding climate change, the Antarctic plays a crucial role. The ice sheet preserves a climate and pollution record spanning the last half million years. Important too is current evidence of ozone depletion in the stratosphere, warming in the Antarctic Peninsula, and how the ice sheet may contribute to changes in sea level.

SOURCE: http://www.antarctica.ac.uk/About_Antarctica/index.html

Antarctica does not have gift shops! and it should stay that way...

[ 09-05-2006: Message edited by: dmwnc1 ]


Posts: 5650 | From: Clarksburg WV | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Brian_O
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posted 09-05-2006 11:30 PM      Profile for Brian_O     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Post deleted as point has already been covered.

[ 09-05-2006: Message edited by: Brian_O ]


Posts: 2698 | From: Pointe-Claire, QC Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Globaliser
First Class Passenger
Member # 4153

posted 09-06-2006 09:45 AM      Profile for Globaliser     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dmwnc1:
I just cant see 2800 passengers chasing around protected wildlife in this fragile eco-system with their digital cameras and drinking hot chocolate and split-pea soup.
Fortunately, there is a rule in Antarctica that no more than 100 passengers may be ashore at any one time. So the megaships are at least obliged to just cruise on by.

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Malcolm @ cruisepage
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posted 09-06-2006 10:23 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PamM:
... so why on earth a Grand Class ship?

Absolutely! It's not as if Princess are even passing the 'economies of scale' of a big ship (Thousands of cabins) onto the passengers. This is an expensive cruise!

[ 09-06-2006: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
6263866
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posted 09-07-2006 08:39 PM      Profile for 6263866   Email 6263866   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I really don't think that sending a ship of that size, unsuitable for Artic waters, is not a good idea. How ever cruises to Antartica, thats a great idea, but not on that scale.

Well, I guess 2600 people going at a time wouldn't be that bad, makes it easier to go before it all melts


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RobHolland
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posted 09-08-2006 02:15 AM      Profile for RobHolland   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It really should be no safety-related problem to visit Antarctica with this kind of ship on this specific itinerary, as they don't really go far down south. The area they hang around has plenty of ice but is a very wide area. At night they head out to open sea, with rather slow speed.

Apart from this and as said before, this kind of ship is way too big,-too mass market for the most delicate part of the world I have ever seen.


Posts: 762 | From: ms Rotterdam | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
greybeard
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posted 09-08-2006 04:58 AM      Profile for greybeard     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by RobHolland:
It really should be no safety-related problem to visit Antarctica with this kind of ship on this specific itinerary, as they don't really go far down south.

No danger of a rogue wave in the southern oceans, then?


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timb
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posted 09-08-2006 11:41 AM      Profile for timb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rouge Waves can happen nearly everywhere. Remember the NCL ship that encountered one in the gulf stream on the return leg to NY?
Posts: 437 | From: S FL | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
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posted 09-08-2006 03:58 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by timb:
Rouge Waves can happen nearly everywhere.

So cruising in Antarctica is no more risky in terms of rouge waves anyway.


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Ernst
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posted 09-08-2006 04:13 PM      Profile for Ernst   Author's Homepage   Email Ernst   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

So cruising in Antarctica is no more risky in terms of rouge waves anyway.


To get to Antarctica one has to go trough a very stormy region - so the probability is maybe a bit higher - but as said above - rogue waves are not limited to this region.

I can only guess that the Golden Princess will stay away from the more risky regions - e.g. uncharted shallow waters (mind you that the small expeditions ships run aground form time to time) - also she will probably avoid the ice (the big icebergs should not be an issue - also a ship with an ice strengthened hull has to avoid them - such a big ship might be limited in manouvrability (shallow water etc.) - so I guess they will stay away from such critical areas) - and one can only hope that they will not bring thousands of passengers ashore - which leads to the question why they are going there with such a ship firstplace.

(...and a catastrophic problem like a fire aboard etc. IS more critical with such a big ship in such a remote area)


Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged

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