Part of me says that only marine staff - deck and engines - should wear Merchant Navy style uniforms. I know a couple of Hotel Directors who have been mistaken for the Staff Captain because they have the same number of gold bars on their shoulderboards. Non-marine staff should be in suits or something.

But another part of me says that because the ships are, well, ships and need to have a clear and obvious command structure, the uniforms are the simplest way to achieve this across all departments.

The only exception I could think would be the characters aboard the Disney ships - if Mickey Mouse wears a uniform this should not be a problem (also, remeber her first film!) - with Donald Duck it's finally unavoidable.

[ 06-21-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]

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Originally posted by sread:
...but that's what I wear!

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OMG!!! When are you sailing next? I need to get the camera ready! Make for a real "Exclusive" in the "Cruising Sun", Britain's No 101 least read daily newspaper

Pam

[ 06-21-2006: Message edited by: PamM ]

A typical officer uniform has stripes. The hotel department has a white background between the yellow (gold) stripes, Marine engineers I am pretty sure is maroon on cruise ships, and doctors have red.

A memorandum was issued by the Royal Navy in 1863 and read:

With a view to distinguishing the several branches of the Naval Service from each other, Her Majesty Queen Victoria has been pleased to sanction the introduction of distinctive colours between the gold lace stripes at present worn on the sleeves of Uniform as follows:

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mike sa wrote:
...I would rather see a return to a more "sea" experience than a hotel one...

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Agree 100 per cent.

******

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[Steve you would LOVE the uniform worn by the stewardesses who show you to your cabin on embarkation on MSC... white blouse, short black skirts with a white lace pinnie & black tights ]

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Originally posted by sread:
History of the colours (which explains why hotel staff have white stripes between the gold) is in this, from the Greenwich Maritime Museum website...

A memorandum was issued by the Royal Navy in 1863 and read:

With a view to distinguishing the several branches of the Naval Service from each other, Her Majesty Queen Victoria has been pleased to sanction the introduction of distinctive colours between the gold lace stripes at present worn on the sleeves of Uniform as follows:

Medical Department to wear alternate stripes of scarlet
Paymaster's Department to wear alternate stripes of white
Engineer's Department to wear alternate stripes of purple.

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Thanks for posting the source and date of this info--there's an urban legend that the purple field of the engineers' stripes is in honor of those who went down (to a man) with the TITANIC. Obviously the colors pre-date that event by 50 years!

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Originally posted by mike sa:
I regret that hotel staff now wear shoreside style uniforms along with the titles hotel director instead of purser, food and beverage manager instead of chief steward etc.

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I think the titles of the job should remain nautical... but not the clothing.

Colours of stripes are all very well, but 99% of cruisers would not have a clue regarding the meaning of any of it, and would not know if they were talking to the Captain, Purser or Chief Engineer about their blocked toilet...

There is always a board somewhere on each ship showing the staff and the various stripes etc.. but ask any passenger and they would not know the meaning. Therefore a smart suit for the Hotel Dept is more distinguishable. Cruise ships are floating hotels these days whether we like it or not; and we as a 'crowd' here are not going to be able to change that unforunately.

As much as I would love everything to remain nautical... in today's clime I don't think it is really appropriate.

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Originally posted by Tom Burke:
I'm sure I would have remembered that.... but no, unfortunately I'm drawing a blank!

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Oh Tom! I don't have a photo myself, but there is one in one of the brochures or marketing gumpf I have.. I'll have to dig it out for you.

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Originally posted by sread:
Anyone care to help me form an opinion?

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I like women in uniform! (I can't think of anything more intelligent to say than that).

PamM said: Steve you would LOVE the uniform worn by the stewardesses who show you to your cabin on embarkation on MSC... white blouse, short black skirts with a white lace pinnie & black tights

What's MSC's direct booking number, PamM.

Tom Burke said: I'm sure I would have remembered that.... but no, unfortunately I'm drawing a blank!

Reduced Libido (inhibited sexual desire): A decrease in desire for or interest in sexual activity.

[ 06-22-2006: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

The uniforms on cruise ships are nothing like oficial military uniforms where there is a designated rank structure.

The executive purser even though they usually wear three stripes is never reffered to as a commander as the stripes suggest.

I'll take that one up.

Firstly, The first naval uniforms ever worn were by the British Merchant Navy. Not military. They were adopted by the British (Royal) Navy later.

Secondly, certificated deck officers such as deck and engine officers but especially deck officers earn the right to wear stripes designating rank. It takes a minimum of 12 years to gain a Master Mariners certificate. A lot longer than in the armed services.

Thirdly, merchant ships, including cruise ships are run as an autocracy, not a democracy. The Master is god and his line officers supervise and control a young crew as necessary.

During my time at sea I served as a reserve naval officer and did many combined training courses with the Royal Navy. A view such as yours indicates ignorance of the sister service. The fact remains that a Navy deck watch certificate is considered very junior to a merchant certificate of competence. A transfer from merchant to Navy is much easier than the other way.

What I meant was that the hotel department on cruise ships wear a uniform with stripes that bear no relevence to a naval rank.

Executive Pursers often wear three stripes, however when I discussed their uniform with them on my first cruise they told me it was more to show seniority in the hotel department and be identified as the crew. They said they do not carry a naval rank as Commander - for three stripes.

I do not know the whole procdure for being crew in the hotel department, but from what I have understood they are not official naval or merchent officers and that the uniform is just to identify them as crew and show seiority.

From my limited knowledge on cruise ship staff - I think if their uniforms are not the same as official merchent/naval uniforms then I dont have a problem with them wearing them.

Captain is called Captain
Staff Captain is called Staff Captain

both are called by merchent naval rank.

Hotel depatment are never called

Commander, Lieutenant (hope I remembered the spelling) etc.

Yes Sutho your spelling is correct (imagine what a mess Malcolm would have made of it!).

The question is, do you SAY it properly? LEFT-tenant, not the awful "LOO-tenant" as used by some of our other colonial cousins. Makes the rank sound like they rent a cubicle in the toilet (or "restroom").

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Originally posted by sread:
Sutho said "...Lieutenant (hope I remembered the spelling)..."

The question is, do you SAY it properly? LEFT-tenant, not the awful "LOO-tenant" as used by some of our other colonial cousins. Makes the rank sound like they rent a cubicle in the toilet (or "restroom").

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The pronunciation "LEFT-tenant" is just another example of the British mangling the language from which the word is derived: i.e. French. While the US pronunciation "LOO-tenant" is also not correct, it is a hell of a lot closer to the proper pronunciation.

Brian
-Ducking-

P.S. How the hell do the British get "Bew-Lee" (location of the National Motor Museum) from Beaulieu?

[ 06-23-2006: Message edited by: Brian_O ]

Getting back to the uniforms we have a youth organisation in Australia known as the Australian Naval Cadets, it is like sea scouts but sponsered by the RAN. These cadets wear a military style uniform with vague differences. Although their uniform is symbolic of Navy and represents something to the members, to the service people the cadet uniform does not have any authority.