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quote:Carnival, pilots disagree on cruise ships' volumesBy GREGORY RICHARDS, The Virginian-Pilot May 19, 2006 NORFOLK - Carnival Corp. filed suit against the Virginia Pilot Association this week, seeking to recoup about $350,000 in what it says are overcharges by the pilots, which steer ships between the Atlantic Ocean and docking points in the port of Hampton Roads. The giant cruise line's lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court, extends a three-year-old dispute over what are essentially valet parking charges for ships.At issue is how to properly calculate the volumes of the "Fun Ships" that Carnival has sailed from Hampton Roads several times a year for the past decade. The Pilot Association uses those volumes -- based on the ships' length, width and height - to assess the fees it charges for its services.When determining the heights of the cruise ships, the pilots have been measuring from the vessels' bottoms to one of the uppermost decks of the towering ships. Carnival has been insisting that, according to the Pilot Association's rules, the height of its ships should be measured only to one of the very lowest decks. In 2004, the matter tumbled before the State Corporation Commission, which said in a ruling issued last December that Carnival was being overcharged. However, the commission did not order the pilots to refund any money.Miami-based Carnival, the world's largest cruise ship operator, filed the lawsuit Monday. Besides the Pilot Association itself, the suit also named as plaintiffs each of the group's 43 pilots. That was done because of the group's structure as a partnership, Carnival spokesman Vance Gulliksen said in a statement Thursday.The legal action was taken because the Pilot Association refused to refund any money "despite ongoing talks to reach an equitable settlement," Gulliksen said.J. William Cofer, president of the Virginia Beach-based Pilot Association, declined to comment on the lawsuit.The roughly $350,000 amount is based on overcharges Carnival said it incurred dating back to 1996, when it brought its first ship to Hampton Roads, according to the lawsuit. Though that figure is dwarfed by Carnival's vast financial resources - it had $11.1 billion in revenue last year - Gulliksen said the money being sought "is not a trivial amount.""Would you leave a third of a million dollars on the table after you spent almost two years in litigation?" said Gulliksen, referring to the time spent before the State Corporation Commission.Carnival's lawsuit comes shortly after the association applied to the State Corporation Commission to change its rate structure and the amount of those rates so it can buy new equipment and pay for higher operating expenses. Because the system of setting the rates itself would be changed, it's not possible to identify an across-the-board rate increase , Cofer said last month, though the changes are expected to increase the group's annual revenue by 6.3 percent.However, cruise ships would face some of the largest increases in the proposed system, which would be based on the weight of the ships, rather than volume, to set charges.Carnival has said its Hampton Roads pilotage fees would increase 150 percent if those changes take place.The Pilot Association filed its application to change its rates on March 31 with the commission, which must approve them. Gulliksen said the timing of the lawsuit is "pure circumstance."A court date has not been set because the pilots are only now being served with the lawsuit and they haven't responded to it yet, Gulliksen said.Carnival said the lawsuit will not affect its plan to have four sailings from Norfolk this year.The first, with the 2,758-passenger Carnival Victory, is scheduled to depart June 4 on a six-day cruise to the Bahamas.The company previously has filed legal actions against pilot associations in New York and Maryland that it thought were overcharging, according to Gulliksen.In both of those instances, the state regulatory agencies hearing the cases sided with Carnival.The Virginian Pilot
NORFOLK - Carnival Corp. filed suit against the Virginia Pilot Association this week, seeking to recoup about $350,000 in what it says are overcharges by the pilots, which steer ships between the Atlantic Ocean and docking points in the port of Hampton Roads.
The giant cruise line's lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court, extends a three-year-old dispute over what are essentially valet parking charges for ships.
At issue is how to properly calculate the volumes of the "Fun Ships" that Carnival has sailed from Hampton Roads several times a year for the past decade. The Pilot Association uses those volumes -- based on the ships' length, width and height - to assess the fees it charges for its services.
When determining the heights of the cruise ships, the pilots have been measuring from the vessels' bottoms to one of the uppermost decks of the towering ships. Carnival has been insisting that, according to the Pilot Association's rules, the height of its ships should be measured only to one of the very lowest decks. In 2004, the matter tumbled before the State Corporation Commission, which said in a ruling issued last December that Carnival was being overcharged. However, the commission did not order the pilots to refund any money.
Miami-based Carnival, the world's largest cruise ship operator, filed the lawsuit Monday. Besides the Pilot Association itself, the suit also named as plaintiffs each of the group's 43 pilots. That was done because of the group's structure as a partnership, Carnival spokesman Vance Gulliksen said in a statement Thursday.
The legal action was taken because the Pilot Association refused to refund any money "despite ongoing talks to reach an equitable settlement," Gulliksen said.
J. William Cofer, president of the Virginia Beach-based Pilot Association, declined to comment on the lawsuit.
The roughly $350,000 amount is based on overcharges Carnival said it incurred dating back to 1996, when it brought its first ship to Hampton Roads, according to the lawsuit. Though that figure is dwarfed by Carnival's vast financial resources - it had $11.1 billion in revenue last year - Gulliksen said the money being sought "is not a trivial amount."
"Would you leave a third of a million dollars on the table after you spent almost two years in litigation?" said Gulliksen, referring to the time spent before the State Corporation Commission.
Carnival's lawsuit comes shortly after the association applied to the State Corporation Commission to change its rate structure and the amount of those rates so it can buy new equipment and pay for higher operating expenses. Because the system of setting the rates itself would be changed, it's not possible to identify an across-the-board rate increase , Cofer said last month, though the changes are expected to increase the group's annual revenue by 6.3 percent.
However, cruise ships would face some of the largest increases in the proposed system, which would be based on the weight of the ships, rather than volume, to set charges.
Carnival has said its Hampton Roads pilotage fees would increase 150 percent if those changes take place.
The Pilot Association filed its application to change its rates on March 31 with the commission, which must approve them. Gulliksen said the timing of the lawsuit is "pure circumstance."
A court date has not been set because the pilots are only now being served with the lawsuit and they haven't responded to it yet, Gulliksen said.
Carnival said the lawsuit will not affect its plan to have four sailings from Norfolk this year.
The first, with the 2,758-passenger Carnival Victory, is scheduled to depart June 4 on a six-day cruise to the Bahamas.
The company previously has filed legal actions against pilot associations in New York and Maryland that it thought were overcharging, according to Gulliksen.
In both of those instances, the state regulatory agencies hearing the cases sided with Carnival.
The Virginian Pilot
******
Cheers
If not, maybe the pilots ought to be phased out where not needed. I'm not trying to take away jobs, but I would not want to pay someone for doing nothing either.
Charles
quote:Originally posted by Charles 3:I do not mean to be naive, but are pilots really necessary on today's modern cruise ships?
quote:Originally posted by Charles 3:I do not mean to be naive, but are pilots really necessary on today's modern cruise ships?Charles
Ship pilots direct ships, large and small, through bodies of water that they know well. They make decisions about the navigation and speed of ships based on their weight, the tidal current, the weather, and the ebb and flow of the tide in that particular waterway. They are familiar with recent changes in harbor depths, sand bars, and any other changes that effect navigation or may be a hazard to navigation.
Since cruise ships visit so many different ports all year long, cruise ship captains could never know all those specifics for that specific day and time, and how they will effect their arrival and departure.
Therefore, we have Ship Pilots.
[ 05-21-2006: Message edited by: dmwnc1 ]
I have no idea how licensing of pilots work in the US, or even if this is possible with the unions/work rules etc.. maybe not; but in the UK and at least some parts of Europe, some of the Ferry Captains are licensed pilots for their regular ports, thereby omitting the pilotage requirement. Some UK port pilots are also licensed for some Continetnal ports and will stay aboard from.. as an eg.. Tilbury to Amsterdam, as they are licensed for both ports and it saves time picking up/dropping off a pilot each end.
Pam
quote:PamM wrote:I have no idea how licensing of pilots work in the US, or even if this is possible with the unions/work rules etc.. maybe not; but in the UK and at least some parts of Europe, some of the Ferry Captains are licensed pilots for their regular ports, thereby omitting the pilotage requirement.
I know here at our port we have a couple of ships that are regular visitors (one daily) that don't use pilots. One of these ships carries clinker and she's just under 200 metres in length. I think the captains of both vessels have had to clock so many hours and also be certified to allow this.
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