quote:

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MSC Cruises and Chantiers to ink new orders
04/11/2005
MSC Cruises and Chantiers de l'Atlantique are expected to sign a long-awaited newbuilding contract for one, plus option, post panamax ships next Wednesday November 9. The pair signed a letter of intent for the two ships at the beginning of the summer.
As previously reported by Seatrade Insider, the pair will be in the region of 135,000gt with around 1,700 cabins. Commenting recently on the pending new orders, MSC owner Gianluigi Aponte said 'it's just a matter of time, we'll ink it'.

Earier this week in Hamburg ceo Pierfrancesco Vago told Seatrade Insider, 'we are still finalising the details. They will be a new prototype for MSC Cruises. We want to come out with something revolutionary to show clients our product is different.'

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Your point is well taken, as regards Alstom's Chantiers getting more business.
But, I think the fallout cloud from the Celebrity Millie class propulsion system problems still clouds the horizon there.....perhaps unfairly, you will no doubt argue.

Si Alstom pouvait seulement avoir UNE belle reussite a epingler a son chapeau dans les mois a venir, ceci aiderait beaucoup....

Salutations !!

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Originally posted by sealeg claude:
Hello,Pascal.

Your point is well taken, as regards Alstom's Chantiers getting more business.
But, I think the fallout cloud from the Celebrity Millie class propulsion system problems still clouds the horizon there.....perhaps unfairly, you will no doubt argue.

Si Alstom pouvait seulement avoir UNE belle reussite a epingler a son chapeau dans les mois a venir, ceci aiderait beaucoup....

Salutations !!

Cheers
CG

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Not only the Celebrity pot troubles but also the fire a/b one of the RCCL ships whene fitting out, the switchboard fire a/b Nieuw Amsterdam and other troubles whene fitting out. Wich ended that also the Noordam was deliverd to late.

Even with QM2 there was problems with dock workers underpait and strikes. And the deadly dissaster with the gangway.

All play a role and mountained on top of eachother.

And whene the first fallout is over the next is appearing. No good publicity fore Chantiers.

Greetings Ben.

[ 11-05-2005: Message edited by: Maasdam ]

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...MSC Cruises and Chantiers de l'Atlantique are expected to sign a long-awaited newbuilding contract for one, plus option, post panamax ships next Wednesday November 9...

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They’ll call it option for now, but in the end it will be a contract for two.

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...They will be a new prototype for MSC Cruises. We want to come out with something revolutionary to show clients our product is different.

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This is good to hear. I wonder how revolutionary they can be?

******

The strike of an Alstom subcontractor employees (they weren't working for the Chantiers de l'Atlantique and weren't even french) and the gangway tragedy didn't cause any delay : the ship was delivered right on time.

I didn't remember that a fire occured on one of an RCI ship... But as the last RCI ship was built in 1996 and as many, many contracts were signed after that (I guess the busiest time for St Nazaire was between 1998 and 2003), I don't think that it was as well an issue.

The Millie class pods is the real problem, I think. RCI group has always been a good client for Alstom, and they were very upset by the trouble they had. More over, Alstom was not clever and didn't accept to compensate financially the losses for Celebrity. They prefered going to the court at the risk to lose definitively RCI future orders which went to Aker and to Meyer.

Carnival is happy with the job made on QM2 (I think) but is now completely associated with Fincantieri. They will order as much ships as this yard can build and will only order ships somewhere else if Fincantieri order book is full (just like the Aida ships to Meyer Werft).

P&O Princess used to be an occasional client for Alstom (Coral class, a success according to the review I have read) but as they belong now to Carnivore, everything go to Fincantieri.

Festival and Renaissance were big contractor for the Chantiers de l'Atlantique, but they bankrupted.

NCL focuses on its collaboration with Meyer Werft, obviously trying to have a similar arangement to the one Carnival has with Finncantieri.

I'm just wondering if the recent bankrupcy of the Marseilles yard, which impacted Celebrity big time ( Millie's scheduled drydock there had to be scrambled last minute to a yard in LaCoruna....) and the current unrest in France ( Chantiers employs a large number of '' non french''workers) have an influence on MSC's hesitation.....

Pascal, your toughts would no doubt be very relevent here.

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Seatrade Insider reported:
'It will be the biggest cruise order ever for both Chantiers and MSC,'

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I know that MSC's aim is to have 15 ships in its fleet by 2010. I cannot confirm this but maybe they will sign an order for 3 or 4 of the post-panamaxes.

******

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Originally posted by sealeg claude:

I'm just wondering if the recent bankrupcy of the Marseilles yard, which impacted Celebrity big time ( Millie's scheduled drydock there had to be scrambled last minute to a yard in LaCoruna....) and the current unrest in France ( Chantiers employs a large number of '' non french''workers) have an influence on MSC's hesitation.....

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All this is absolutely irrelevant. The yard in Marseille was a little company as diferent from Alstom as a shop around the corner is different from the Wal Mart group. More over, it bankrupted because of events completely specific to the town of Marseille (SNCM strike followed by dockers strike, all this completely blocked the entire port).

The foreign people who work for Chantiers de l'Atlantique are mosty Indian men who have a 6 months or a 1 year contract and they have absolutely no intention to stay in France. The riots every world TV are now talking about are caused by jobless and hopeless french born people (from foreign origin, that's true, but those kids are french) who suffer from being stocked in awfull suburbs since their birth without any future. So if you know a little the situation, you'll realise that Alstom foreign workers are really, really, really not an isuue.

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Pascal wrote:
...The delay for the signing may be only for normal price and technical reasons. There is no point in imagining something else.

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...and maybe because MSC wants more ships (as in a package deal).

******

******

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Originally posted by bulbousbow:
It's confirmed and signed. MSC will get two post-panamaxes from Chantiers de l'Atlantique.

******

Cheers

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Any pictures?

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MSC Cruises confirms ALSTOM order for two 1650 cabin cruise ships
November 14, 2005

MSC Cruises has just confirmed to ALSTOM a contract for the construction of two 1650 cabin cruise ships, following a letter of intent signed in June this year.

These new liners will be among the largest ever ordered by a cruise-ship owner, with a length of 333 metres and a width of 38 metres. They will each have a capacity of up to 3887 passengers and more than 1300 crew members.

The first ship will be delivered in spring 2008 and the second in spring 2009. They will be built in the shipyard of Chantiers de l’Atlantique (France), a subsidiary of ALSTOM.

“This largest ever firm order won by Chantiers de l’Atlantique is a true demonstration of MSC Cruises’ confidence in our capabilities”, said Patrick Boissier, President of ALSTOM’s Marine Sector; “we are proud to contribute to the impressive growth of MSC in the cruise market worldwide”.

ALSTOM Marine previously built two 800 cabin cruise ships for MSC Cruises, MSC Lirica and MSC Opera, delivered respectively in March 2003 and May 2004. Two other 1,275 cabin cruise ships, MSC Musica and MSC Orchestra, are currently under construction at the Chantiers de l’Atlantique’s shipyard of Saint-Nazaire (France) and will be delivered for the 2006 and 2007 seasons.

Alstom

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******

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ALSTOM WINS CONTRACT FOR TWO GIANT CRUISE SHIPS
November 14, 2005

PARIS - The French engineering group Alstom has won a contract to build two giant cruise liners for Italian line MSC, the Italian company said on Monday.

MSC said that it would sign the contract later on Monday with the Alstom Marine engineering division Les Chantiers de l'Atlantique.

MSC did not provide details on the value of the construction. However, press reports suggest the contract is worth a total of one billion euros (1.16 billion dollars).

The order is for two ships, each displacing 135,000 tonnes and offering 1,650 cabins, an MSC spokeswoman said, adding that it was the biggest contract ever signed between Alstom Marine and a European line.

The first of the two ships would be delivered in June 2008 and the second in March 2009, she said.

The price of shares in Alstom rose by 1.68 percent to 41.85 euros in initial trading. Paris's CAC 40 index of leading shares was showing a fall of 0.27 percent to 4,524.24 points.

[...]

AFP

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
Wow, two 135,000 ton ships is like two 'Voyager' class vessels. Who would of thought that MSC would enter the size race so quickly.

Will the new MSC vessels not be the fourth biggest class of cruise vessel, after QM2, FOS, and Voyager? Bigger than anything Carnival and princess have, at present.

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Going strictly by gross tonnage I think you are correct. If you look beyond gross tonnage and at actual dimensions these ships beat out some of the Voyager Class statistics.

1092 ft in length, and 125 feet wide. If they come in at 135,000 rt (I think it could be more), carrying 3300 passengers (lower occupancy), that gives them a space ratio of 40.9. Not bad for a mass market ship.

It will be interesting to see the design. I have a feeling it will be somewhat conventional and basically a larger version of what we have already seen with MSC.

I'm happy for MSC, as I like to see anything give Carnival and RCI a little competition. I'm disappointed for myself because I really like the atmosphere on on the MSC OPERA, which is a much smaller ship. In fact I found her size to be just about perfect.

I said initially, and still agree with those comments, that mixing and matching between the Med & Caribbean, trying to cater to two different types of cruiser, with varying proceedures and even differing onboard currency depending on the port of embarkation, does not work too well. European Pax sailing ex Miami expect things to be the same as in the Med, which they aren't and vice versa for Americans. It gets confusing, even down to whether room service is free or not, and the drinking age palava.

Having 2 vessels that only cater to the Caribbean market would be something else and a much better way forward, imho anyway. The Med market is getting as saturated as the Caribbean and I think smaller vessels are preferred. In the Med and Baltic the main reason for visiting are the ports of call [to the majority anyway], in the Caribbean the ship is more of a priority as the ports are not so interesting, and the general public seem to the think the bigger the better.

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Originally posted by eroller:
It will be interesting to see the design. I have a feeling it will be somewhat conventional and basically a larger version of what we have already seen with MSC.

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As we have seen with the 'Voyager' class, ships that big have plenty of room to include innovations, if desired. (As well as a hell of a lot of passengers!)

Of course 'Pinnacle' is set to blow MSC and RCI out of the Sea, in term of size.

I'm surprised than nCL have not entered into the size war?

[ 11-14-2005: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

[ 11-14-2005: Message edited by: joe at travelpage ]

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Originally posted by cruceromania:
A picture from Alstom's web:

[ 11-14-2005: Message edited by: cruceromania ]

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WOW, six full decks of balconies (one more than the Voyager Class), + two more 1/3 decks of balconies above the bridge. That is a LOT of balconies.

The way the balconies protrude in and out along the side looks very much like Carnival's Spirit Class. The lounge in front of the funnel reminds me of NCL's Star Class ships.

From the exterior ... nothing innovative. Just a LOT of balconies! Pretty much what I expected.

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Originally posted by PamM:
I can't help but wonder if these 2 vessels will be built aimed purely for the American Market and the Caribbean? without being Europeanised for the Med.

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Apparently both these ships will operate year round in the Med. So it guess that blows that theory.

Still we should not be too judgemental from an artists drawing. Thanks for sharing cruceromania.

I find it hard to imagine such big ships operating in the Med in the winter. There is at a present little demand for winter Med cruises.

The Med is certainly going to be a busier stretch of water in the future. I hope to see cruise fares come down as the competition increases.

[ 11-14-2005: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

What impresses me most is the cabin size. 215 sq feet. I assume this is for a standard size cabin. Consider that QM2's standard cabin size is 194 sq feet. FREEDOM OF THE SEAS and Celebrity's new Challenger Project are also supposed to support standard cabins in excess of 200 sq feet. I guess this is a new trend.

I have to agree with Pam ... it seems these ships would be more suited for year round Caribbean cruising. I guess MSC knows something we don't?

Ernie

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MSC Cruises' record-breaking duo
14/11/2005

On a bright sunny morning in Paris today MSC Cruises took a major step in its expansion plans when md Pierfrancesco Vago and Chantiers de l'Atlantique ceo Patrick Boissier officially signed a contract for two post-Panamax cruise ships at the office of Barry Rogliano Salles.
It signifies the most lucrative contract ever concluded between Alstom Marine and a European ship owner, amounting to over one billion Euros.

The two Panama-registered 133,500gt vessels - MSC Fantasia and MSC Serenata, due for delivery respectively in May 2008 and March 2009, will be 333mtr long, have a maximum capacity of 3,900 passengers accommodated in 1,650 cabins (1,260 with balconies), and 1,313 crew. The two ships will bring MSC's capacity to 20,440 lower beds.

'The majority of our ships - MSC Lirica, Opera, Armonia, Sinfonia, Musica and Orchestra - have been built in France,' said Vago. 'We have chosen to pursue our long time and excellent partnership with Chantiers de l'Atlantique which we started together five years ago. Our relationship is based on understanding and reliability which are essential,' he added.

'Apart from being competitive, Chantiers knows the way we think and what we want, which is most important with these two new vessels as they are real prototypes, very long, very big. In fact, the biggest on the European market today and intended to operate year-round in the Med,' stated Vago.

Referring to the six months delay between the letter of intent and firm order, Boissier commented: 'The time has been dedicated to a very detailed study of the contract in order to avoid any delay during construction. MSC Fantasia will be delivered within 30 months, which is a record when you think it took us 36 months to build QM2, which is in the same size range.'

Among other features MSC Fantasia and Serenata will boast 20 sq mtr cabins, a 2,000 sq mtr spa and what Vago referred to as a 'happy island' concept: two decks of the ship will be dedicated to 80 suites (31 to 45 sq mtr in size) with butler service and accessible only through a VIP card. 'These passengers will also enjoy the privacy of a VIP restaurant, a special pool and pool sundeck as well as direct access to the spa,' Vago told Seatrade Insider.

[ 11-14-2005: Message edited by: eroller ]