"Hey folks...I'm writing live onboard the Holland America Line Zuiderdam. We are at sea today (having not been able to tender at Half Moon Cay).

This morning I wrote a nice note to the Cruise Director Pete (can't remember last name....) requesting a Friends of Dorothy party to be scheduled for tomorrow, which is also a sea day.

Pete was kind enough to leave me a voice mail letting me know that, per Holland America corporate policy in Seattle (my paraphrase) about 6-7 weeks ago they can no longer host and publicize such gatherings. He said he would be happy to put such a party together in a public room, but they could not put it in the daily bulletin!

At this moment....I am damn angry! Which I certainly don't need on my long awaited vacation. At great splurgy expense to myself I have booked as a solo in a Cat S suite....not exactly chump change! But this is absolutely my 2nd and last Holland America cruise unless this policy is changed asap! I can't believe in this day and age such a policy would exist. I think in today's program, for example, they've had meetings for people who like to play bridge, and for veterans. So what is the big deal -- we are but yet another group of people who have some common interests. Isn't the cruise line's job to bring people together for an enjoyable vacation experience?

I do want to be clear I do not harbor any ill will towards the CD...he was kind enough to respond to my note and was just relaying a corporate policy -- which he did not create -- to me.

In any case, Pete said I could call him at various times this evening, but really why bother? The whole point is to get a room and have it in the daily program....it's not like I have some magic ability to "spread this by word of mouth", using his words....to every gay and lesbian passenger on the ship. I don't want to go around making presumptions about people right?

Holland America -- wake up!!

There were none on my QE2 crossing, but there where on the April tandem QM2 crossing.

On the SSNorway some old ladies came to the FOD party looking for their friend Dottie and shocked to see mostly men.

Some cruise directors make up policy from corporate as they go along.

LGBT travel is a $55 billion market.

Pied Piper has a partial charter on the Seaborne Sun repo cruise.

another incident reported on another forum.
HAL has a few upcoming RSVP charters.

I am shocked and disappointed to have to write such a note, but I am totally incensed with HAL, specifically those in charge on the Amsterdam. we have always thought of this line as extra gay-friendly, but have come to realize other circumstances now exist. my partner and i just returned from a 17 day south america cruise on the amsterdam. as usual, we honed in on the gay staff who immediately accepted our request for a "friends of dorothy" meeting to be posted in the daily communicator. they took special interest in letting us know that the cruise before us had a great turn out at their meeting and were a fun bunch. another couple also requested such a posting. long story short, was the announcement was never printed due to HAL policy that does not permit gender specific announcements. can you believe this! we all know that this is not the norm as it has been done before on many other cruises. both the cruise director and hotel management were contaced and both cited HAL policy. when we asked for a copy of this policy, we were given the old shove off and told to contact HAL corporate upon return. we have decided that if this is in fact HAL policy, we will never give them our hard earmned green again. we will absolute pursue this further. has anyone else come up against this?

another reply
on this ship in July of this year and the CD, Dane Bucher, was very agreeable to FOD get togethers. I was surprised to see that Dane was NOT the CD for the trip from last week. The word was that he was on a vacation and was due to come back to the Zuiderdam after two weeks.

[ 12-12-2004: Message edited by: desirod7 ]

I am afraid this will be only the beginning.

A bit surprised though, as HAL has dutch roots, and (most of) its ships are registered in the Netherlands, which was the first country to legalise gay marriages.

I assume Dutch law applies to dutch flagged vessels, so HAL has quite a problem here. tolerance of gay people has become quite a touchstone of the modern society, so I think here is a big legal and moral issue here.

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Originally posted by Johan:
[QB]The way things are in the US (seen from very faraway of course) it isn't really surprising.

I am afraid this will be only the beginning.

Many countries in Europe as well will become more conservative as changes occur.

/QB]

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Originally posted by Johan:
....
A bit surprised though, as HAL has dutch roots, and (most of) its ships are registered in the Netherlands, which was the first country to legalise gay marriages....

J

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Holland American is about as "dutch" as New York, Harlem and other Dutch descendants...(officers notwithstanding).

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Originally posted by RobHolland:
As a Dutchman I am absolutely not conservative or whatsoever, and I certainly don't want to offend others, but in my opinion it is ridiculous to be frustated that such gay partys aren't standard in a cruise program. Such kind of activities would give the impression there are differences between gay and non-gay people. There also sure ain't 'hetero-partys' in your ships program?!?

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Your reasoning holds no water.

Gay people ARE different from Heteros. They are attracted to the same sex rather than the opposite sex. Having an FOD party on board is the same concept as to why there are gay clubs and gay lounges and gay bars on land.
As far as "hetero parties" there is no need to - the entire ship is basically a hetero party. This is why companies like RSVP will charter an entire ship for a gay and lesbian cruise.

[ 12-14-2004: Message edited by: CGT ]

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Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:
There are 'Hetero' get togethers-it is called a 'singles get-together' or what ever term that is used.

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With all respect to you;

Unless on a dedicated gay/lesbian cruise all of the parties unless specified are hetero.

Until same sex couples can hold hands in public, ballroom dance together or dance cheek to cheek without stares, gasps, and threats of violence from those unenlightened, there will be a need for specific gay and lesbian activities.

BTW: Pied Piper does get heteros in their groups who are usually friends and family of the participants.

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Originally posted by RobHolland:
. Such kind of activities would give the impression there are differences between gay and non-gay people. There also sure ain't 'hetero-partys' in your ships program?!?

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[ 12-22-2004: Message edited by: desirod7 ]

First Rob i agree and not agree with you. Its true that it is ridiculous that some one are angry ore frustrated that there are not Dorethy ore such partys are orgenized.

Buth in this world and i must say also here in the Netherlands Gays are still discriminated. Must say that i never feel attact ore nore feel discriminated.
So its not so starnge that someone look out to meet other gay passengers on his here cruise. But this must not be the reason fore making a cruise.

Fore such all gaycruises there are travel companys specialized in it. Also a/b HAL ships. Saw view months ago on MTV a docu over such cruise, yes a/b the m.s. Zuiderdam. So iff you want to travel all gay thene booked such a vacation.

Fore the Dutch flagged cruise ships off HAL and there historic ties with the Netherlands, They must applay to the Dutch law not more note less. Buth what i have read i saw nothing against the Dutch law in first. So i would say fallow the wice advice off mrBlance and call Holland America.

And to CGT you are right we are somehow diffrent we are attracted to the same sex. BUT fore everthing else we are not diffrent thene heterosexuals.

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Originally posted by Maasdam:
I would react to.

And to CGT you are right we are somehow diffrent we are attracted to the same sex. BUT fore everthing else we are not diffrent thene heterosexuals.

I think we are very different-in many good ways!

Ben.

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desirod7 wrote:
...from those unenlightened...

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Enligthened about what?

******

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Originally posted by steeplechase:
The whole gay lesbian thing is so wore out, tired of hearing about it. Let them marry like the rest of us

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Good, you remember you said that if and when an anti gay marriage proposition appears on a Maryland ballot.

[ 12-27-2004: Message edited by: joe at travelpage ]

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Originally posted by steeplechase:
The whole gay lesbian thing is so wore out, tired of hearing about it. Let them marry like the rest of us, stop the stupid "pride" parades. And boycott HAL, I am sure they will soon go bankrupt. And why are you on line while on your cruise? Thats as bad as the cell phones just less intrusive to others. And why do you need a FOD gathering not having any luck getting lucky? If this is not the reason for the gathering why not just go to the lounges all over the ship? Have a pleasant time.

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[ 12-27-2004: Message edited by: joe at travelpage ]

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Originally posted by usha:
I'm having a hard time understanding what the Friends of Dorothy have in common with Friends of Bill W???? Good Lord, the Friends of Bill W are getting together to support each others' struggle to maintain sobriety!!! Do you really think your efforts to "hook up" have any sort of correlation to the Friends of Bill W's need to meet?

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It is not about hooking up. It is a social network and if one or two people 'hook up' that is there choice. I have attended a few of these get- togethers and it was about getting to know people on a social level-nothing more.

[ 01-03-2005: Message edited by: joe at travelpage ]