I think it sends the wrong message to passengers. They see "tipping not required" as "no need for me to tip" and stiff the crew. Certainly it doesn't make for a happy crew when they work their butts off then get stiffed at the end. Of course there is no one to blame expect the company and their policies.

It's possible that MSC is paying their crew more to make up the difference, but it seems unlikely based on the per diems they are currently charging. I do hope that is the case though, or you will find some very grumpy crew members on MSC.

Ernie

From Seatrade Insider:
==========================

New ‘tipping not required’ policy at MSC
9/11/2004

Unless they change things for ex US cruises, there is no 15% service charge auto added to drinks either. But I wouldn't be surprised if that was introduced over there. It wouldn't be accepted in the Med though.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PamM:
MSC is no Wal*Mart. It's the difference between US & European Cruising. I hope MSC do not go down the US road, but it seems Sasso is turning their 'US Arm' into yet another one of many lines. Why not keep them different?

Pam

---

Pam,
I agree. MSC is no Wal-Mart and I also don't want them to become too Americanized. It's their uniqueness and Italian hospitality that will separate them from the NCL's, Princess's, and Royal Caribbean's of the world. I think the mid-market is ready for something different.

I'm just not sure about "tipping not required" though. It's ok *if* they are paying their staff enough, but most cruise lines rely on tips to pay 99% of the crew salary. MSC is advertising some very low introductory rates in the US ... under $500 for a 7-night cruise on OPERA. At those rates you will attract some low-end clientele that might not tip at the end of the cruise. I think it could be a problem ... but again it all depends on MSC's salary arrangements with the crew. If the crew is used to not getting tipped when sailing in the Med., then I guess it's ok.

quote:

---

Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:
The reason I mentioned Wal-Mart is that company is famous for paying it's employees very little and providing little to no benefits.

---

Thanks for the explanation. I never put two and two together. When you spoke of Wal-Mart and MSC, I thought you were talking about the caliber of passengers.

After all, the waiter is employed by the restaurateur and not the customer. If there are problems you complain to the boss.

At least this is the way I see this problem.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Globaliser:
I think ambiguity only arises if the cruise line says one thing but means another. The problem at HAL seems to be that the line said "tipping not required" but really meant "tipping is expected". That is the situation in which crew will get shafted.

If MSC says "tipping not required" and means it - ie the crew are paid properly without tips so there is no need to tip - then tipping can revert to what it should be, namely a thank you for exceptional service or the "above and beyond", and not just a slightly random and scattergun approach to having the passengers pay the crew's wages without the money passing through the hands of the cruise line.

---

Exactly! This remains to be seen, and the big question is ... does MSC actually pay their cabin and waiter staff, or are tips considered the majority of their wage?

quote:

---

Originally posted by mec1:
Johan -

Tipping is certainly not uncommon here - you tip waiters and cab drivers but not bartenders or chambermaids.

---

I must have been too wide, sorry. Tipping is not expected in Belgium, but graciously accepted of course.

I mean to remember that in taxis there is a plaque, stating that service is included.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mec1:
you tip ... cab drivers

---

But I know that, historically, waiters in the great restaurants in Paris (and presumably other major european cities) were not 'employees'; they were casual labour, and the maitre d' would 'recruit' as many as he wanted each day. Generally they were not paid, and furthermore had to provide their own uniforms and, sometimes, their own trays! So the tip was the major, possibly sole, source of income.

Tipping plays a more important role in some cultures, more than others. For example us Brits are rarely big tippers, I think we generally believe that staff should be paid a decent wage. Productivity and quality service should be maintained by good training and good management, not by primitive 'carrot and stick' methods.

The reason most cruise lines have a tipping policy, is because they virtually DO NOT pay their staff. They leave that to the customers. Carnival used to pay $1 or something similar, so do most other lines That way the brochure cruise-rates look very cheap, particularly in America, because they do not include the staff’s wages

Tipping is a hidden cost to the passengers, because you tend to forget about it when booking. The details are normally hidden away in the brochure small print anyway - in that respect it is a bit of a con-trick, like the old system of adding port taxes ontop of your fare.

The tipping system falls down when American ships come to Europe. The fares can be double that of cruises in US waters, but we the passengers are still expected to pay the staff with our tips. I would not mind tipping if my fare was $299!

MSC probably pay their staff a decent wage from the ouset?

(I can never understand why it is customary to tip some workers and not others? Do people tip Teachers and Airline flight attendants in America, for example?)

[ 12-11-2004: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
[b]
For example us Brits are rarely big tippers, I think we generally believe that staff should be paid a decent wage. Productivity and quality service should be maintained by good training and good management, not by primitive 'carrot and stick' methods.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
We have discussed tipping here many times before. Anyway, for those new to the topic:

Tipping plays a more important role in some cultures, more than others. For example us Brits are rarely big tippers, I think we generally believe that staff should be paid a decent wage.

Unfortunately with competition, employers are forced (or are to cheap) to pay a low non-living wage.

The tipping system falls down when American ships come to Europe. The fares can be double that of cruises in US waters, but we the passengers are still expected to pay the staff with our tips. I would not mind tipping if my fare was $299!

I cruise on RCI a few years ago in the Med, an the brochure rate was approx. the same as for a RCI Caribbean trip. This was for a verandah cabin. Do Europeans get charged a higher rate? I think we paid around $1.100.00 total U.S. (minus tips) per person for a 7-day cruise.

(I can never understand why it is customary to tip some workers and not others? Do people tip Teachers and Airline flight attendants in America, for example?)

The way the major airlines here in the States are heading, I think tipping will be expected for flight attendants. The days of the decent paid airline staff seems to be coming to an end here and it is a shame. With JetBlue Airways flight attendants making $8.00 per hour when flight time is fiqured in-that is poverty wages for someone based in a large U.S. city. The quality of the staff will sink with the fares.

12-11-2004: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CGT:

Although the British upper class did have a tradition of tipping country house staff when guests at the weekend.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CGT:

Although the British upper class did have a tradition of tipping country house staff when guests at the weekend.

---

I think this is perhaps the reason, why it is not really the normal fashion : it smacks too much of servile, unequal, feudal working relations ?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Johan:

it smacks too much of servile, unequal, feudal working relations ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CGT:

I don't think so.

---

Here it does, I think. The workman with his cap in hand, murmuring," t'nk u m'lord" is a real spectre. People want "rights" no, "favours".

Labor relations, and history of, are different here than in the US.