On boards where readers are encouraged to rate the ship on a six-poinbt scale, almost no one is giving their experience a rating higher than two, and the majority of the ratings are a one. The reviews trash the service provided by the American crew members, the quality of the food, the cleanliness of the cabins and on and on. The only thing getting a decent review are the shore excursions. Almost all of the reviews end with "I'll never take a NCL-Hawaii cruise again" or words to that effect.

[ 08-19-2004: Message edited by: Mariposa ]

It is a disgrace for any line to offer poor service with the excuse that the staff is insufficiently trained. I do not note discounts being offered because of these inadequacies. I do not know how additudes can be adjusted.

As I have mentioned before, "American Cruise Lines" and "Clipper Cruise Lines," have port calls here in St. Michaels. When I observe passengers wandering through our streets and in our shops, I make it a point to ask them about their cruise experiences. All, repeat all, after three years of such, report on how much they enjoy the young, enthusiastic American cruise staff. I have had not one negative. Reviews reflect this as well.

So it can be done.

Where it all comes unglued is when have a huge ship with probably 1,000 crew members most of them being paid little moreAmerican minimum wage plus tips. Bluntly put, what you have is a crew largely composed of Mcdonald's hamburger flippers with the same level of commitment.

[ 08-18-2004: Message edited by: Globaliser ]

Sorry if you booked and I am raining on your parade, but I guarantee you will agree once you get on!

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Originally posted by melissa2004:
I just got off of the Pride of Aloha. We embarked on Aug 15, 2004. Unfortuately I would not have called this boat a cruise ship. I have cruised several other ships in past at lower prices, and this ship I would not recommend to my worst enemy. If you feel like paying money to be stressed all week, then by all means go ahead. The ship was disgustingly dirty (ie. my bed was full of hair and stains on the sheets when I first got there) the staff is rude (you need to find your own cups and silverware to actually eat with) the food was so bad i would not even feed it to my dog! crossings and palace dinner reservations was a complete joke, it was hundreds of angry guests pushing their ways to the door. There was a grease fire in the kitchen, and crew trying to put it out with water?? My group of 17 booked excursions ahead, and we were lucky if half of them were even booked. USA today even has a story posted about this ship today. That should explain how great the service is. I understad 250 people quit before we got on, and they were understaffed- why did we have to pay the full amount then? They are taking off half of the gratuity which equals $35.00 per person, and then 20% off our next cruise. I consider that a slap in the face. I sure as hell wont be cruisin with this company ever again. I will highly suggest celebrity, which was actually cheaper with no stress! Its sad to be excited to come home half way through the trip...

Sorry if you booked and I am raining on your parade, but I guarantee you will agree once you get on!

Thanks,
Melissa

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The company said it would refund half of passengers' service charge — about $35 per person for a seven-day cruise — and issue cruise credits worth 20% of the cruise portion of the Pride of America ticket, good for cruises booked and sailed through 2005. The average cost of cruises is between $800 and $1,000, travel agents said.

Big deal! This is a worthless piece of paper as I am sure you and many other's will never travel with them again. You should have been given the choice of a cash refund or a credit towards another cruise, like we received many years ago on our first HAL cruise. It was 25% cash or 40% towards another cruise, which we took. The problems we encountered on our cruise were nothing like yours - we just missed a couple of ports and no one really cared as we had such a good time.

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Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:
We cruised the Hawaiian Islands aboard SS Independence and SS Constitution a few times in the late 1980s and in the 1990s and their American crews were great.

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I agree. In fact I used to date one for about a year.... going back and forth between LA and Hawaii. Of course I was young and stupid then.

It may be that they could get things polished and fixed, but if a stigma attaches itself to the line and US crews, it isn't likely to go away. People might book another cruise, having lived through a less than ideal one. But they will not book a trip they have reason to expect to be bad in advance. Plus this could well put a stink in the air that prevents any other line from trying US crews for decades to come.

The reason that they are employed by the cruise lines in the first place is not because theses people are somehow genetically of a higher calibre; it is simply because they are cheap!

I do not think it is true to say that American staff can never provide good service. Millions of shops and restaurants throughout America employ American staff who provide great service.

The answer is simple; NCL obviously have recruitment, training and/or management problems. They are not impossible problems to solve, but the longer they take the more damage NCL will do to their image.

[ 08-27-2004: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

I do not think it is true to say that American staff can never provide good service. Millions of shops and restaurants throughout America employ American staff who provide great service.

The answer is simple; NCL obviously have recruitment, training and/or management problems. They are not impossible problems to solve, but the longer they take the more damage NCL will do to their image.

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Well said Malcolm. I think it's quite unfair to say American's can't provide first rate service. The fact is they can, and one only need look at the staff of the many Ritz Carlton's and Palm restaurants as an example. Of course there are millions of establishments in the US where one can receive top notch service by an American. I experience it every week as a flight attendant .... both from the crew I work with and the staff at the hotels we stay at and restaurants we dine at. Now I could name off some countries where poor service seems par for the course, but I'm not going to go that route. Lets just say the US isn't one of them.

As Malcolm stated, the issues are more likely to stem from NCL's lack of management, training, recruitment efforts, and the pay & benefits package. In the US, you get what you pay for, period. If you want to pay people McDonald's level wages per hour and few benefits, then that is exactly the caliber of employee you will attract. You may end up with a few good eggs looking for the "experience and adventure", but that will wear off quickly at the prospect of working for a company with better wages and benefits. It's not like your seeing the world as a crew member with NCL America. You are only seeing Hawaii and even Hawaii can get tired week after week, especially when your primary responsibility is catering to the whims of whiny and demanding passengers (some, not all).

I might also place blame on the expectation level of NCL America passengers. I think it's quite high, and rightfully so. These are not cheap cruises, and when you throw in the expensive air to Hawaii from many areas you talking about a package price range in the same ballpark as a trip to Europe or other foreign destination. These passengers have a right to expect a first rate experience, and apparently when it's not delivered they have been quite vocal about it.

I'm not sure what the long term solution will be, but recruitment of the right people from the get-go, training, and an excellent onboard management and development team would be a great start. It surprises me that NCL America couldn't figure this out from day one. I wish NCL America the best. They basically have a monopoly operation in Hawaii so they should be able to make a roaring success of it *if* they play their cards right. I guess that is a very big "if". The interesting thing is that none of their predecessors in the same position have been able to make a go of it.

Americans do not have the same incentive. Doing the same jobs, they are not looked upon as high earners, and certainly won't after a few years have enough money to 'settle'. It is not a matter of giving up home life for a few years, and then having everything, you still have nothing. I doubt it ever will be unless the wages are double a land based service job, and can't see that happening, without cruise fares doubling, which the cruising public won't take To an American the job is for a few months 'fun'.. they find it's not fun, not the easy life at sea they thought, so don't bother working and jack it in. They don't know what hard work is, as in comparison to those from the Far East or wherever, in general they have had a cushy childhood, still being treated as children until 21.

NCL can train crew endlessly, even to perfection, but it won't do any good, as the next intake will be just the same & leave after a few months.

Are these crew solely working in Hawaii? or rotating round other ships in the fleet? Doing the same itinerary week in/out for evermore does not hold the same appeal as getting the chance to see the rest of the world. But then NCLA would need more US staff... Can't win.

I asked my waiter on Armonia [Italian] why he worked on the ship rather than on land. The answer was because the money is good. He earns twice + more, than he can earn in a land restaurant in Italy. He works 14hrs a day on ship, but would still work 12 on land, so double the money for a couple more hours. He is not 'engaged', so has no problems that way, his words... if he did he said he would find it hard, but as it is, he's enjoying life & will stay at sea for a few years to earn the money.

It's all down to giving something up for a good return. Americans have it good already [I am talking generally], the same pull, incentive & job satisfaction is not there.

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Originally posted by PamM:

NCL can train crew endlessly, even to perfection, but it won't do any good, as the next intake will be just the same & leave after a few months.

Are these crew solely working in Hawaii?

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I don't necessarily agree. If NCL America can make the American crew feel valued ... by way of incentive programs, recognition, training, and development then I think they could find themselves with more long-term employees ... especially those who live in Hawaii. American's in general have a pretty good work ethic, but only if they feel valued and part of the solution. Take Ritz Carlton hotels for example. They have a motto of "ladies and gentlemen serving ladies and gentlemen". They probably have the highest retention rate in the service industry, and it's not because you are going to get rich working at the front desk of the Ritz... it's because you are treated as an equal, valued and respected. A lot is expected of you, but in return you can expect a lot from the Ritz.

Many companies try to model their training, development, and recruitment after the model Ritz Carlton uses. Unfortunately NCL is not one of them. It takes a good amount of $$$ to put such a program in place, and most companies are just not willing. Too bad as I think many end up spending as much in the long run. I'm certainly not trying to compare NCL to Ritz Carlton, because they are night and day, but they are both after the same end result ..... a high level of customer satisfaction that leads to new and repeat business.

It goes without saying that cruise ship crews from 3rd world countries work hard. Their home situation and work ethic can't be compared with the US or any Western Industrialized nation for that matter. Americans, British, Western Europeans, Australian's, etc. all have it pretty good in comparison. It's apples and oranges. They are certainly the main reason we Westerners have enjoyed inexpensive cruise vacations for so many years. I don't see that changing anytime soon, as once a pool of cheap labor is depleted from one nation, another is recruited to take it's place.

Regarding the rotation of US crews, I don't believe they work on any of the NCL foreign registered ships. They did for training, but that is it. Crews on NCL America are paid differently, and the service charge that all passengers pay go into a fund to pay them during their time off. I believe this is one incentive NCL America is using to retain crews. If you don't return for a second contract, you don't get paid during your time off .... or something to that effect. I also believe the US crews on NCL America receive a higher wage, and this certainly would not go over well were they rotated among the foreign crews on the other NCL ships. Just a guess here.

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Originally posted by mec1:
Ernie -

I would love to know which airline you fly for. IMHO all American airlines are lousy, with patronising staff, a take it or leave it attitude and awful (even by airline standards) food. And I think American may just edge out Alitalia and Varig as the worst airline in the world. Would love to know the courteous and charming carrier that employs you.

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How do you really feel? You are making rather broad and unfair statements. I never suggested the best service you will receive in the US will be on an airline, but I work with a wonderful group of people and I see them go above and beyond for the customer everyday... in ways you probably could never imagine. What difference does it make what airline I work for? You already have a pre-conceived notion that "all" US airlines are the worst in the sky. Probably from that one flight you took.

If you received poor service and "attitude", I would look at the source. We only treat the customer with the same respect we are treated with. Judging from your post, I could easily imagine you would receive poor service.

Frankly I resent your statement as would the thousands of airline workers employed in the US. I guess we could all learn from easyjet? Yea right.

Ernie

[ 08-27-2004: Message edited by: eroller ]

The "Nordstrom Solution" comes to mind. To those who do not know what I mean: Nordstrom's is a Department Store Chain, based, I believe, in Seattle, and are known throughout the industry for the competence and courtesy of their staffs. I have encountered this, so has my wife.

I cannot not speak of the current situation, but when the chain opened in the Washington/Annapolis area, in an environment of many competing stories, there were numerous articles as to why this particular group of stores provided such courteous and competent service as opposed to other stores in the region whose service ranged from arrogant to non-existent. Yes, Nordstrom's staffs were primarily American, although there were no regulations about hiring legally in-country foreigners. And their prices were not cheap.

There is (was?) something in their training, or salaries, or benefits, or something, which motivated their staffs to provide good service. NAL America should either study their m/o; hire them as staff consultants; or see what is in the coffee served in their cafeterias. Something works. It CAN be done.

[ 08-28-2004: Message edited by: Cambodge ]

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Originally posted by Cambodge:
Joe and some other Americans who may have experienced this, will know what I am talking about here...others will have to bear with me for a few minutes.

The "Nordstrom Solution" comes to mind. To those who do not know what I mean: Nordstrom's is a Department Store Chain, based, I believe, in Seattle, and are known throughout the industry for the competence and courtesy of their staffs. I have encountered this, so has my wife.

I cannot not speak of the current situation, but when the chain opened in the Washington/Annapolis area, in an environment of many competing stories, there were numerous articles as to why this particular group of stores provided such courteous and competent service as opposed to other stores in the region whose service ranged from arrogant to non-existent. Yes, Norstrom's staffs were primarily American, although there were no regulations about hiring legally in-country foreigners. And their prices were not cheap.

There is (was?) something in their training, or salaries, or benefits, or something, which motivated their staffs to provide good service. NAL America should either study their m/o; hire them as staff consultants; or see what is in the coffee served in their cafeterias. Something works. It CAN be done.

[ 08-27-2004: Message edited by: Cambodge ]

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