We booked a cruise a couple of months ago with Holland America.

We have just found out that they have changed their gratuity policy and they will be adding $10 per day each plus 15% service charges.

Now I know the service will probably be great but this has come after our booking and we had a budget to work to.

I don't know whether this happens a lot in the US but from a UK perspective it is pretty disgusting to change the deal once we've made the booking.

Does anyone know whether we can get gratuities and service charges removed.

I realise it may be embarrassing asking, but at the moment we're angry enough to tolerate the embarrassment.

Not a great way to treat customers.

Any help appreciated.
I have emailed them both with the qustions and the complaint.

Being an old time HAL cruiser, I still like to personally give the gratuity to my cabin & dining room stewards and the Asst. dining steward on the last evening of the cruise. I am probably going to have it removed from my account because I leave that much if not more.

The 15% is not a service charge. It is a gratuity only on bar bills. This cannot be removed.

The gratuities are placed on your on board account to simplify the tipping process. No need for envelopes or scrounging up the cash; but, it is up to you whether or not the amount is to your liking or if you want to tip at all.

No need to be embarrassed; the fact is, a gratuity is NOT a requirement on ANY cruise line. It's totally up to you and how you feel about the service. Perhaps the service will far exceed your expecations causing you to want to tip more.....then again, if it's not up to snuff, you might want to tip less or not at all. While I've never stiffed anyone, I have reduced the amount of suggested gratuity....the service just wasn't up to par; and there's no better way to get that message across.

The choice is still yours. No one can force you to pay a gratuity......

Also, and with great respect to Sympatico, the 15% charge for bar purchases is indeed a service charge,....it is not voluntary. Since it cannot be removed, it's the price you pay for having someone wait on you. If it was a gratuity, you would have the option of leaving a tip or not and how much.

Russ

[ 03-25-2004: Message edited by: linerguy ]

[ 03-25-2004: Message edited by: linerguy ]

quote:

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Originally posted by lisyloo:
Hi,

We booked a cruise a couple of months ago with Holland America.

We have just found out that they have changed their gratuity policy and they will be adding $10 per day each plus 15% service charges.

Now I know the service will probably be great but this has come after our booking and we had a budget to work to.

I don't know whether this happens a lot in the US but from a UK perspective it is pretty disgusting to change the deal once we've made the booking.

Does anyone know whether we can get gratuities and service charges removed.

I realise it may be embarrassing asking, but at the moment we're angry enough to tolerate the embarrassment.

Not a great way to treat customers.

Any help appreciated.
I have emailed them both with the qustions and the complaint.

Thanks
Lisa

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Hello, can understand your feelings (almost), however, chances are many other lines would not have spelled it out for you and you would have paid gratuities anyway.

As has been said, you can have the charge removed. Hopefully you won't becaue you'll not be disappoited by HAL service.

Which ship are you on and where are you going?

Thanks for the replies.

Can I just clarify that we are not mean - we do give out gratuities - and I belive we are quite generous.
We prefer to give them personally.

What we object to most is that the terms of our booking have been changed after we have paid for it.
We understood that gratuities were included (did I get that wrong).
I also am aware that even though some companies say "gratuities included" that additional tipping goes on.
I am fine with that.

I am still a bit unclear about the service charge.

In the UK you CAN ask for a service charge to be removed in a restaurant.
They may off course ask why you were dissatissfied with the service.
Nevertheless from a legal perspective you can do it.

Is this different in the US?

Am I right in thinking that prior to think policy change that gratuities were included in the holiday?

I would like to know what I originally signed up to.

Never thought your comments/questions (or you) were "mean".

Nigel is correct. Previously, HAL boasted a "No Tipping Required" policy. No gratuity envelopes, no show lounge talks on tipping,...it wasn't even mentioned on board. It wasn't that the tips were included, they just weren't required or advertised (which is quite funny since a tip is not mandatory on ANY line).

The explaination that HAL use to give for this policy was that the crew were paid well (at least in comparison to similar lines) and did not need gratuities to supplement their income......not sure what's happened in that regard. Still, folks would typically tip half the amount they normally would on another cruise line......

As far as the service charge is concerned, I guess if you didn't want to pay it, you COULD scratch the 15% off, correct the total and then sign it.....but you would run the risk of having something "nasty" in your drink!

I've always felt that gratuities are a very personal thing. If you tip the suggested amount, you've gotten exactly the type of service you expected....if you're overly generous, it's because you felt the service went beyond the call. And, of course, nothing shows dissatisfaction like a reduced gratuity.

If I go to a restaurant and receive extremely poor service, I'll leave a quarter. It sends more of a message than leaving nothing at all.

I understand it better now.

The people I feel most sorry for are those who may be travelling to a budget in the cheapest cabins and may genuinely have thought that tipping was not required.

Now with the amount being put on the bill, it certainly sets an expectation of what you "ought" to be paying.

I personally prefer to give gratuities personally.

I guess it's just bad timing but I'm dissapointed that they've changed this policy after my booking.

quote:

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Originally posted by lisyloo:
Also if anybody can point me to the previous policy then I would be very grateful (made an on-line booking and have no documentation).

I would like to know what I originally signed up to.

Many Thanks

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Lisyloo - the on-line booking........who did you make it with?
on HAL's web site or where?

You mention 'holiday' is this HAl cruise perhaps part of a package put together by Sunquest, Airtours???????? - sorry don't know names of your package holiday companies.

Frankly I'd be very concerned if I'd made a booking, online or otherwise, and had received absolutely no information - I'd be wondering if it 'went through'.

Actually I have booked on line with HAL and received details by e-mail - then handed the info over to my TA.

HAL has never included gratuities (tips) in its cruise fares and, as you realize, has never stated that they can't be given.

We have a confirmation number where I can see the on-line details whenever I like.
This number is also recognised on Holland Americas site (so I have no concerns).
I have email confirmation but it doesn't contains the previous gratuity policy.

The cruise ship is Westerdaam (new one this year).
The cruise is the Aegean Odyssey and it is 12 days long.

I know that tipping goes on when the cruise line state "No tipping required", but my expectation was that I would be free to give what I choose.

I now feel that they have firstly set an expectation of the amount that should be given, plus I am now unsure as to whether the crew are being paid well enough.

Previously I would have consider my tips to be a nice extra because strickly speaking it wasn't required.

This means they have effectively changed the deal I have signed up to.

I think we may have a slight cultural issue here.

Again, I am happy to give tips for good service (and in UK terms we are quite generous).

I just don't like the expectations of the deal being changed after I've booked.

[ 03-26-2004: Message edited by: joe at travelpage ]

Lisyloo - as I stated previously, you are free to give what you want or nothing as far as a gratuity goes to your cabin steward, dining room steward and assistant if there is one. Just go to the Front Office and have the $10.00 per day per person taken off your account. No big deal!

You obviously have never walked into a restaurant, added a tip to the bill only to find out later that they have already added 15-20% gratuity. It's happened more than once to me and many others I am sure.

[ 03-26-2004: Message edited by: sympatico ]

You booked a cruise on line with vacation****.com on a Holland America Line vessel – I’d guess other cruise Lines were also offered. Looks like a great itinerary, very port intensive. Will look forward to a full report when you get back. We hope to sail the new Westerdam one day.

Nautical Nigel: – you got it right, HAL's policy was 'no tipping required'. Tips were not included in the price paid for the cruise – taxes excluded.

lasuvidaboy: question is interesting – How do Brits tip when cruising in the UK region?

mec1: -You say The British are notoriously mean tippers. - have to ask ‘as compared to.....?' Generally speaking, I believe Americans are considered excessive tippers; Canadians are somewhere in the middle; don’t know about other nationalities.

Bottom line really is - Gratuities/tipping, how much and how you do it, is your decision.
’Service Charges/Taxes’, no way to avoid those!

Eric: Things may have changed now but time was when only UK Tour Operators sold HAL cruises – in other words they contracted for a certain number of cabins (at a special rate) added in air and perhaps hotel for a couple of nights and made a ‘package’……..thereby allowing them to include tips.

If UK travellers can now book directly with HAL, as we in Canada (and I think the States) can, the picture changes and agree that it's up to HAL to make its policy clear to Travel Agencies and Counsellors.

A question here - Canadians can request pricing•••in either US or Canadian funds and pay in either.

In which currency do you pay? – do you have a choice?

"Lisyloo, of course you are going to pay for tips when you cruise - if you were worried about it from a budget oint of view, why didn't you book a cheaper cruise to start with?"

I was not talking about myself.
We are able to afford whatever tips we want.
I was expressing sympathy for other travellers who may not have cruised before and may genuinely have believed the heavily marketed "no tipping required" policy.
Not everyone has cruised before - there is always a first time.

"Also, what do you mean that you are a generous tipper "By British standards"? The British are notoriously mean tippers."

By American standards we are probably mean.
By British standards we are generous usually tipping 10%-20% if service is good.
We will sometime not leave a tip at all if service is bad or slow.

However I think tips in the UK are regarded as an "extra" for good service.
Whereas I get the feeling that in the US it's very much expected.
We felt that "No tipping was required" and anything we gave would be extra.
We now feel it is expected.

• Celebrity Cruises = CC
• Holland America = HAL
• Norwegian Cruise Line = NCL
• NCL America = NCLA
• Royal Caribbean International = RCI.

The 'What to know before you go.......' section of the brochure is very detailed - 5 pages (small print) packed with information on itineraries, deck plans, sailing dates, insurance, etc, etc.

Prices are quoted per person, in CA$

In

quote:

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Terms and Conditiions 2003/2004 it says; The Terms and conditions information contained in thius brochure deal with our mutual rights and obligations. When you make a booking with ****** Cruises through your Travel Professional and we confirm it, a contract has been made.

The payment policies are based on information provided by the cruise lines at time of print and the Cruise Lines and ******Cruises reserve the right to change these without notice.

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There is a paragraph on 'Gratuities' which I had not read - our bookings have always been made through a registered Travel Agency directly with the Cruise Line .

Here's what it says -

• HAL - Gratuities are not required.
• NCL and NCLA - A US$10 per guest per day gratuity is automatically applied to your shipboard account (US$5.00 per day for children 3 to 12; no charge for children under 3. Gurest may adjust the dollar value of the gratuities applied. A 15% service charge is added directly to bar bills.
• RCI/CC - Suggested guidelines per guest per day: Dining room waiter US$3.50; Assistant waiter US$2.00; Stateroom attendant US$3.50.
• Headwaiters and other service personal - at your discretion.

The brochure was printed in October 2003, since then, as we all know, many changes have been made - a good Agency would be aware of them. HAL's gratuity change, not yet in effect, was only announced a short time ago - other Lines may well have made changes too.

On Discovery there was a bit of chaos in that some people (the Brits) had paid for the tips in the price of the cruise whereas other people were informed on board that a sum would be added each day to the bill to cover tips - very much like HAL is now doing.

As one of the Brits who had already paid for the tips I only tipped people who had done good work eg. the cabin steward. There was also a 15% tip for waiter/waitress service that I was happy to pay.