I could care less where RCI goes.

[ 12-19-2003: Message edited by: CGT ]

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Originally posted by CGT:
I don't think the QM2 going to Brooklyn has been finalized.

[ 12-19-2003: Message edited by: CGT ]

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I do believe it has. They just need to build the terminal shed.

Pier 40 is now scheduled to become a part of the Hudson River waterfront park.

But really, I think it is only natural that as New York grows as a cruise port cruise lines are not going to want to put up with a dingy third-rate facility. It's very sad that QM2 is going to be sailing to Brooklyn, not Manhattan, but the NYPST is a dismal facility and any halfway decent ship deserves better.

Personally I'd much prefer a new facility in Manhattan than one in Brooklyn or (gasp) New Jersey but I think the reality may be that there's just not any room for the thing.

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Originally posted by SoBe Tim:
the Bayonne and Brooklyn terminals have much better....mass transit access.

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Originally posted by cruiseny:

I personally don't buy the airport access business because I think a lot of people cruising in and out of New York will want to stay here for a while and I doubt many of them have Brooklyn in mind, and certainly not Bayonne. And forget someone flying into Newark to a cruise ship in Brooklyn or to JFK or LGA for a cruise starting in Bayonne!

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EXACTLY. Not to mention the fact probably a large percentage of passengers sailing out of NYC are local tri state area residents.

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Originally posted by SoBe Tim:

I do believe it has. They just need to build the terminal shed.

Tim

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Originally posted by CGT:
Not to mention the fact probably a large percentage of passengers sailing out of NYC are local tri state area residents.

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The NYPST needs to be remodeled, that's it.

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Doug--coming from any one of the three airports to the NYPST, navigating through Manhattan traffic can easily add 30-45 minutes, if not more time, to your trip.

And the whole argument that "people may want to stay over in NYC" doesn't hold water. People travel from the ports in LA, Miami, Ft Lauderdale, Rome, London, etc; all the time.

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Originally posted by CGT:

Reveal your credible source.

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As of today, a Carnival spokesperson stated that their plans for moving to Brooklyn were "status quo". They are awaiting word from the NYCEDC in regards to any participation from that side.

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Originally posted by CGT:

Reveal your credible source.

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This is rich considering you hide behind a screen name.

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Originally posted by SoBe Tim:
From my point of view, the Brooklyn and Bayonne terminals are more accesible.

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And I say you're on crack frankly. How you can claim that BAYONNE NJ is more accessible to public transportation is beyond me. Do you work for the Bush administration or what? To say that is dishonest, ignorant and LAUGHABLE. Have you looked at a map lately? Not to mention that Bayonne is a DUMP. Now as far as Brooklyn is concerned, the closest subway line is Borough Hall in Brooklyn Heights on the 4, 5 or 6, or the 2 and 3 lines or the Bergen Street F station, and neither one is even remotely close to where the pier would be, at the foot of Atlantic Avenue.

Howver, since you are someone who claims the "City" is only from downtown up to near the top of Central Park (conveniently leaving Harlem out of "the City" as well as Columbia University, and cutting of the top of Manhattan, as well as the other four boroughs) I'm not surprised you would make such ignorant statements. More accesible in your opinion? IN YOUR DREAMS maybe.

[ 12-20-2003: Message edited by: CGT ]

Addendum:

And another thing, most people like to arrive a day early at least, and stay in a hotel in Manhattan before embarking on the cruise, so why on earth would they want to travel to freaking BROOKLYN or BAYONNE to get to the ship when they could go right over to the West Side Piers in Midtown (convenient to both Grand Central Terminal and Penn Station), which is exactly where the ships BELONG? Moving the piers makes absolutely NO SENSE AT ALL and it speaks VOLUMES about Carnival's stupidity on this matter. What Carnival SHOULD do is spend the money to renovate and rebuild the piers on the West Side.

[ 12-19-2003: Message edited by: CGT ]

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Originally posted by Dolphins:
Is it definite that Voyager of the Seas and Nordic Express cruises round-trip out of New York will be sailing out of Bayonne, NJ?

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I have to agree with you, living "out on the Island" the idea of a cruise from Bayonne is not especially attractive. And nothing will ever seem "right" to me except Manhattan. But the fact is the NYPST is an ancient, only barely adequate facility and I think it is only natural that every cruise line with a major presence in New York look for alternatives. Something has to be done, and it looks like Manhattan missed the boat. I suppose it's possible that the people running NYPST were under the impression that with no alternatives cruise lines would take anything. Unfortunately the facility has become so poor that cruise lines are willing to move to Brooklyn or New Jersey to get a modern facility. That is a trend seen all around the world, just starting with cruise terminals but very widely seen with airports. Some, like Montreal's Mirabel, have failed, but for the most part it's considered a necessary evil. The world is trading its dingy, old, overcrowded and easy-to-get-to airports for shiny, new, spacious ones in the middle of nowhere. It is not especially surprising that the cruise industry is going in the same direction, and their eagerness to do it at least in New York makes a very bad statement about the present state of things.

[ 12-20-2003: Message edited by: cruiseny ]

Bayonne in talks to host cruise ship facility on Peninsula

May start seen for Royal Caribbean trips

Saturday, December 20, 2003

By Ronald Leir
Journal staff writer

By next summer, seagoing vacationers should be able to book cruises to the Caribbean or Canada - leaving from Bayonne.

Bayonne Local Redevelopment Authority commissioners on Thursday night voted to sign a letter of agreement with Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd., for the operation of a cruise port facility at the northeast corner of the Peninsula at Bayonne Harbor, formerly known as the Military Ocean Terminal.

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If terms can be worked out, Royal Caribbean says that, beginning next May, it will stagger sailings of two ships from that port through October.

The 3,114-passenger Voyager of the Seas will offer five-night Nova Scotia runs and nine-night Caribbean cruises, while the 1,500-passenger Nordic Empress would sail on alternating six- and eight-night Bermuda trips.

John Tercek, Royal Caribbean vice president for commercial development, said that for the past year the company has been scrambling to find adequate dock space for its vessels on Manhattan's West Side and, learning that the Peninsula could accommodate maritime business, approached the BLRA.

"It was a matter of us having a ship and looking for a place to park it," Tercek said.

Two other Royal Caribbean ships will continue sailings from Manhattan's West Side.

BLRA Executive Director Nancy Kist said the BLRA plans to launch a "temporary, five-year operation," by leasing the cruise line about 1,000 feet of bulkheading at Berth N-1, an existing 120,000-square-foot warehouse known as Building 14, for use as a temporary terminal where passengers would drop off their luggage, check in and be escorted onto the ship. A nearby parcel would be used for passenger parking.

Royal Caribbean has estimated that it would need room for perhaps 700 cars, Tercek said, and Kist said that "surface" parking should be sufficient when the port opens but that "deck" parking was a possibility in the future.

Under a long-term, 30-year scenario envisioned by the BLRA and Royal Caribbean, the cruise line would have the use of 2,400 feet of berthing space, but Kist said that before that happens there would likely have to be an estimated $20 million in bulkheading improvements.

Asked who would pay for the improvements, Kist said: "We'd (the BLRA) probably go out and get financing and Royal Caribbean would pay us back."

Financial terms concerning the cruise port operation will be negotiated between the BLRA and Royal Caribbean, and Tercek said he hopes that a contract can be struck by March.

Kist said the BLRA would look to structure a deal keyed to a "ground rent, participation in parking revenues and a passenger terminal charge based on the number of persons who pass through the terminal."

She declined to project how much money might be realized from the venture, but did predict the passenger terminal may employ as many as 200 people as ticket agents, baggage handlers and others.

Kist said that BLRA consultant, Fidelco, Inc., Assistant BLRA Director Dan Kurtz and the BLRA's marine engineers would be heavily relied on for the upcoming negotiations with Royal Caribbean, but that if additional expertise were needed, "we'd go out and get it."

The proposed cruise port would be located in an area that the BLRA master plan has designated as "Bayonne Point," which, according to BLRA marketing brochures, is targeted to accommodate primarily "high-rise housing and office use" and a "seaside entertaining district."

Although a cruise port wasn't specifically mentioned as a possible use for the area, Kist said the planning districts were designed to be adaptable to market demands.

"This (cruise port) plan is very exciting for us because it's an opportunity to showcase the Peninsula and the city and what we have to offer," Kist said.

"It will be a nice tax ratable, a job producer, and we also see it as an opportunity to accelerate the redevelopment of parcels near the (proposed temporary) terminal for things like restaurants, hotels and entertainment and/or recreational activities."

Ronald Leir can be reached at rleir@jjournal.com

[ 12-20-2003: Message edited by: Ocean Liners ]

I dare say very few people will arrive to the QM2 or any ship via subway or public buses. The vast majority of people deaprting from NYC on cruise ship arrive via motor coach service provided by the cruise lines; either air/sea programs or the motor coaches they provide from Pennsylvania, DC, Baltimore, Conneticut, Boston, NJ, etc. Others drive, but they are certainly not in the majority. Many others take private car service.

The NYCPST's terminal facilities are woefully inadequate for the mega-liners and the number of guests that need to be processed through embark/debark. They lack adequate parking for the motor coaches and holding facilities for limos and taxis. The traffic can also be unbearable when the facility is anywhere near full as it can take you upwards of an hour to navigate the last few blocks into the terminal.

The Bayonne facility has VERY GOOD access from Newark Liberty Int'l, the NJ Turpike and has light-rail access from both Newark Penn stattion and the airport. Both the Brooklyn and NJ facilities have easy access from major highways and lots of space that can be used to provide secure parking. Both can be easily served by conventional of fast-ferry service.

At the end of the day, I'm going to say that the cruise lines know their business and what best serves guests and are not 'knee jerk' reactions. They didnt become successful, multi-billion dollar companies by making stupid decisions.

You're miffed because you feel that the ships 'belong' on Manhattan's west side. The west side piers are shabby, faded remnants of an era that's long since passed. The ships belong where ever there are terminals that can serve them and the guests comfortably.

If the NYCPST can upgrade their facilities to the standards necessary, bully for them. But the cruise lines can't base their decisions on nostalgia or mis-guided emotion.

Like NYPST, Southampton is always viewed as Britain’s premier port. After all it is steeped in tradition. It was home to the Queens, the P&O s fleet and of course Titanic set sail from there, too.

Personally I prefer Dover, in terms of its facilities. It is two cruise terminals, and I certainly prefer No.1, to Southampton’s QE2 terminal, although it is smaller.

Dover is used by HAL, NCL, Celebrity, Saga and Fred Olsen to name a few. Harwich is also a pretty good port and is the chosen port for RCI.