Compared with only a few short years ago, many cruise lines appear to have changed,their offering, service. and passenger mix dramatically.

Royal Caribbean for an example has morfed from a class operation to a mob scene.Better value can be had by checking into a Marriot Hotel. In the latter case, you have a better chance of seeing the ocean if its on the coastline.

Holland America seems to be trying all ways to get higher market share by launching bigger tonnage vessels, sadly losing its reputation for elegant affordable cruising in the process.

Airtours Sunbird is listed as a 'budget cruise'. Hogwash, the only difference that I note is the absence of comlimentary room service and the lack of pads on the deckchairs. Also, gratuities are included in the reasonably priced fares.

By comparison, P&Os Aurora seems to be at the other end of the spectrum catering to a higher class passenger. I doubt however that apart from the more monied and upper class client on Aurora, the service and the friendly guests on Sunbird set a standard to be beaten.

If there is any point to these opinions, never rest assured that cruise lines you have experienced a few yeas ago will have the same standards. Times are changing, maybe too fast.

[ 11-18-2003: Message edited by: topgun ]

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Originally posted by topgun:
In the latter case, you have a better chance of seeing the ocean if its on the coastline.

I doubt however that apart from the more monied and upper class client on Aurora, the service and the friendly guests on Sunbird set a standard to be beaten.

[ 11-18-2003: Message edited by: topgun ]

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Yes, cruising in general is becoming more mass-market, but if it wasn’t many of us probably would not get to cruise in the first place! I know that I would not.

You could easily argue that new cars are not as good as vintage cars. New cars are simply charm less mass produced plastic and metal, completely lacking in any craftsmanship. However, in terms of safety, comfort and performance new cars are better. Likewise many modern ships do of course lack that old world charm too, but they do offer more choices, better creature comforts and enhanced safety features.

Passengers expect facilities to be at least as good as their homes, if not better, so cabin TV’s, for an example, are of course a must. You do not need a balcony cabin to enjoy a cruise, but once you have had one, you would not pick a non-balcony cabin, unless you were on a budget.

There is little evidence that 'real ships' actually attract the great cruising public. The only thing that kept the SS Norway afloat in recent years was knock down prices, not her heritage!

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
Yes, cruising in general is becoming more mass-market, but if it wasn’t many of us probably would not get to cruise in the first place!

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You could easily argue that new cars are not as good as vintage cars. New cars are simply charm less mass produced plastic and metal, completely lacking in any craftsmanship.

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I suppose the same thing could be said of the cruise industry. After all, there ARE still top-end luxury lines out there, with smaller, more elegant ships, haute cuisine, and individual service - with astronomical price tags to match. They're the Bentleys of the cruise industry, like floating boutique hotels.

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once you have had one, you would not pick a non-balcony cabin, unless you were on a budget.

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Some people say they like to have a balcony to hear the sea outside, but older ships delivered that routinely with opening portholes .

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There is little evidence that 'real ships' actually attract the great cruising public.

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Cruise lines and ships are simply changing to reflect the requirements of society, as it changes. It is Inevitable.

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I'm sure the late Mr. Deilmann said it more elegantly than that, but that was the gist of why DEUTSCHLAND has only two balconies, in the two owners' suites. I agree completely with his theory!

Now, what about watching scenery from that balcony, you say? Well on SKY PRINCESS (which incidentally had 10 cabins with balconies and 590 without - we were in the latter group) in Alaska we were running from one part of the ship to another all the time to view the scenery. Unless your private balcony is in essence a private wrap-around promenade deck, I really don't see how great it could be for scenery-watching. With my luck the scenery would always be on the other side of the ship .

As for in-cabin safes, I see no reason not to have them, though I imagine keeping ones valuables under lock and key and the constant supervision of a member of the Purser's Staff would be more secure. Televisions? I could do easily do without one in-cabin but do like to check up on CNN or BBC World to find out what's going on in the outside world, or at least to have an idea whether New York will still be here by the time we get home...

Even atriums are not really so much of a modern distraction IMHO - indeed the fact is that classic liners really HAD them - they just didnt't call them atriums. Instead, they were called grand staircases, and many modern ships' atriums revolve around those. COSTA CLASSICA has an architecturally fascinating, very unconventional atrium that is reminiscent of the dining room of ILE DE FRANCE (she herself had what today might be considered a small atrium). DEUTSCHLAND and the R ships among others have small "atriums" that in reality are nothing more than wonderful, sweeping staircases soaring through several decks. The atriums on many of Celebrity's ships, too, would not be out of place on a classic liner if it weren't for the decidedly un-classic decor of some of them.

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No longer just for super-rich blue bloods, the "luxury" experience has become thoroughly middle-class, even prole (two words: "Gucci T-shirt"). But is this good news or bad news?

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For more see this brand new article from one of my very favorite magazines, The Atlantic Monthly. It does not specifically mention cruises, but I think it is rather relevant to this thread, in that it deals with the mass popularization of "luxury" items, one of which cruising once was.

[ 11-23-2003: Message edited by: cruiseny ]

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Originally posted by cruiseny:
...balconies keep people holed up in their cabins all the time instead of out socializing .

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I agree, but it's all part of the 'choice' now offered to passengers, as is room service etc.

Anyway, balconies do reduce the crowding of deck spaces, public longes and lunch buffets etc.

[ 11-23-2003: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

[ 11-23-2003: Message edited by: petede ]

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Originally posted by PamM:
Surely the lines want the pax on deck & in the lounges spending money?

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After the guests have paid their fare for the balconly cabin (which are often very expensive on ships cruising in Europe) there is still plenty of opportunity for them to blow thier money, onboard!

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Originally posted by petede:
Having sailed on both "classic" liners and modern cruise ships I have to say... it is not right to degrade one in favor of the other....

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Well said Petede!

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Originally posted by ScottQE2:
I would put the QE2 and the Norway up against any new vessel built in the last 25 years - because they are real ships, and don't have to behave like a shoreside attraction to get fare-paying passengers.

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As a young child cruising in the early 1970's there were still obnoxious passengers just like today. Read the passengers from hell thread. Just because someone has money does not =class.

Friends sailing on Galaxy our of Baltimore last year, spoke of the constant smell of cigar smoke wafting to their balcony!

See? it takes all kinds!

[ 11-26-2003: Message edited by: Cambodge ]

The layout is such that there is only about 16" clearance between the bottom of the bed and the wall - the vanity, with drawers, the 3 seater couch etc. are at the balcony end - bathroom and closets are at the other end.....just seemed to me that unless you took everything for evening dress changes into the bathroom with you, you were constantly walking back and forth. Being an older ship, there was no adequate storage space for makeup etc. - to say nothing of the less than 'good' lighting in the bathroom. (ok, I know, a female point of view!).

We had bathrobes - not the 'fluffy terry' kind but very comfy waffle cotton ones. Soap, shampoo, lotions and potions - only one of each (definitely a cutback there).

The fridge was handy - minibar prices were the same as in the lounges - soft drinks could be stored - not a big deal for us and, I guess you can arrange for a fridge in a Cat. C cabin.

We had friends in Suites - now that's a whole different story! - once you've experienced one, I can understand the reluctance to ever again downgrade ......maybe we'll aspire to such luxury one of these days ...... there are definite 'perks' there!

The Mariner Parties - interesting to note that on the first week there were 14 of us with 300++ day medals - the second week we were 8. HAL's Mariner profiles are definitely changing!

The Captain's Table Farewell Dinner invitation included first timers, Blue and Red pinholders and Silver medallion and pin holders......as to how you are 'chosen' remains a mystery!

We didn't try the newly installed Pinnacle Grill - menus were varied, our Stewards attentive, there was no need. Reports from those who did, all said 'excellent'.

The 'dress code' - well!!!!!.........there were those who attended the Royal Dutch High Tea barefooted, and can you believe? in bathing suits with see through sarongs. 90% observed Formal night attire.

There was no 'live music' in the Crows Nest - all DJ. The
'City Lights' group in the Ocean Bar had a big following.

It was a great cruise - to our knowledge there were no 'bugs' on board and apart from a couple of hours one day, the seas were calm - it was sunshine all the way.......what more can one ask!

Explorer's Lounge - we enjoyed after dinner drinks there - Chamgagne Strings as great as ever!

Next cruise - I'm working on it!

[ 11-26-2003: Message edited by: Green ]