Cruise Talk: What if shooting starts in Liberia?

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Topic: What if shooting starts in Liberia?

Steve Read (sread)
First Class Passenger
Member # 788

posted 07-04-2003 07:21 AM

What is the situation re ships registered in Monrovia, Liberia, if the USA intervenes there?

For instance, an American-run ship catering almost exclusively for the American market, but flying the Liberian flag? If the shooting starts, whose side are they obliged to be on?

Posts: 926 | From: Locksbottom, Kent, England | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Johan C
First Class Passenger
Member # 1201

posted 07-04-2003 11:33 AM

Most cruiselines have already reflagged their ships: Cost flies the Italian flag and most American cruisecompanys such as RCCL and Celebrity have Nassau, Bahamas on the stern.

Posts: 256 | From: Ghent, historic city in Belgium | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 07-04-2003 11:52 AM

Just illustrates what a farce F.O.C's are doesn't it? They are only good for tax dodging corporations. Liberia, Marshall Islands, even the Bahamas.....F.O.C's should be made illegal. Liberia has always been the most ridiculous and worst, though.

Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

Cambodge
First Class Passenger
Member # 906

posted 07-04-2003 12:45 PM

STARTS?????????

It's been going on for years!

Posts: 2149 | From: St. Michaels MD USA , the town that fooled the British! | Registered: Nov 1999 | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 07-04-2003 01:22 PM

CGT...sorry to disagree but for many years Liberia was one of the best FOCs. and attracted a lot of very good owners.
In about the last 10 years there has been a priliferation of Registries, some supposedly on little islands I've never heard of...did you know for instance that the French have a tame one called Wallace & Fortuna? or Kerguelen?
....peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 07-04-2003 05:48 PM

There is no such thing as a "best" FOC. Disney should be registered under the US registry and fly the US Flag. Cunard, P&O and Princess all fly the flag of the British registry, as they should, and HAL the Netherlands (except that one ship, I forget the name). MSC should fly the Italian flag (not Panama). Crystal should fly the Japanese flag (not the Bahamas or whatever country they are copping out with).

Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

Commodore
First Class Passenger
Member # 1575

posted 07-04-2003 06:53 PM

CGT this time I do agree with you. Maybe contempary cruise lines like Carnival,RCI, and NCL shouldn't fly the flag of the U.S. (NCL is the only major line that has any ships that can avoid the Jones Act.) but they shouldn't register them in third world countries. The U.S., Canada, and EU countries are good examples of the flags they should fly.

Posts: 1106 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2000 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 07-04-2003 07:09 PM

I don't like FOCs but for some companies it really is the only option.

Take Carnival, or Disney. They have no "heritage" outside the US so no reason to register in any European country (and would likely not even be ALLOWED to). The US register is simply NOT practical. They really have no choice but to use Panama or the Bahamas.

Note that Carnival's Italians ships (Costa) are registered in Italy, their British ships (Cunard, P&O, Princess, etc.) are registeredin Britain (or Bermuda or Gibraltar), their Dutch ships (HAL) are (mostly) registered in the Netherlands, but their American ships (Carnival) are registered elsewhere. Why? Because unlike many other countries, it simply isn't practical to flag here in the US! Unless you need the US flag for coastwise trade, there is no sensible reason to use it. Doing so would be a TERRIBLE business decision.

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 07-04-2003 07:54 PM

In these days the country of registry is actually pretty meaningless except for polital reasons. Very few enforce their laws or regulations themselves and this is done by the Classification Societies on their behalf. These societies, such as Lloyds, Bureau Veritas, Norske Veritas, ABS, Germanischer Lloyd, which are the old line and better known ones, have been joined by a bunch of newer ones with it appears, not the same standards.

Regardless, ALL of them are subject to the same economic pressures which means that if a shipowner doesn't like the way you survey his ship, he can change Class anytime until he finds one he does like. Any Class surveyor who started holding up ships would be looking for another posting pretty quick.
And that is where the importance of a tough Port State Control comes in. They can hold unsafe ships until they are in compliance, and it's this holding that forces owners to get things done before costs skyrocket.

....peter

Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

cncservo
First Class Passenger
Member # 532

posted 07-05-2003 12:10 PM

You will soon be able to rent a bullet proof vest on board.

[ 07-05-2003: Message edited by: cncservo ]

Posts: 170 | Registered: May 99 | IP: Logged

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