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Topic: Cruise Lines going to bankrupt !

Nesklau
First Class Passenger
Member # 3310

posted 10-19-2002 01:03 PM

I can´t believe in these prices:
7 day cruises for $499
4 day cruises for $299
I have seen this picture before, big cruise lines are going to bankrupt!
Can somebody disagree with me?

Posts: 26 | From: Ilhabela, Brasil | Registered: Aug 2002 | IP: Logged

Dave Edwards
First Class Passenger
Member # 3415

posted 10-19-2002 01:30 PM

Did you read the fine print? Extra charge for pillows, sheets & towels. Cokes @4.85. Alternate dining available in main dining room at $25.00 per evening, standard dining on deck hot dogs.

The cruise lines are barely squeaking by, only adding 2 or 3 ships a year approaching a half a billion each.

Posts: 18 | From: Elk Grove, CA (Near Sacramento) | Registered: Oct 2002 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 10-19-2002 02:54 PM

Yes, I can allways disagee, with anyone!

On my first cruise I was shocked to find at the end of the cruise that many guests 'additionals' added up to twice the cruise fare, and that was a full priced cruise! Also remember your tips pay the hotel staff's wages, rather than the cruise line having to!

There is no point a ship sailing with empty cabins. It is well worth the Cruise lines giving them away if necessary!

Of course they don't give them away as such, they still slap on a small profit margin!

[ 10-19-2002: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

Nesklau
First Class Passenger
Member # 3310

posted 10-19-2002 03:40 PM

Hi dave
For a 7 day cruise:
7 hot-dogs 7 x US$2 = $14
3 times at specialty restaurant 3 x $25 = $75
Total $89
$89 + $499 = $588 for 7 days, that´s $84 for each day with cabin, transport, meals and shows.
It appears to be an extremely low price for profit.

Posts: 26 | From: Ilhabela, Brasil | Registered: Aug 2002 | IP: Logged

Patrick
First Class Passenger
Member # 364

posted 10-19-2002 03:59 PM

It is all a matter of calculation. You can already cruise with PALOMA for 199.-EUR per person for 7 days and there is not a sign of having red accounts or facing bankrupty ! The things is that it is better running a ship which is fully booked by pax who paid less than running a ship which is only have booked with pax paying regular rates.
Because, even if your onboard expenses (I talk about PALOMA !) are rather low, passengers will always drink something, always buy stuff from the shop, always buy photos or book shore-excursions. Onboard PALOMA, these fares are kept low and anyway the benefits are very good because the ship is fully or almost fully booked.
And D&P Cruises is only a very small company in the industry.
And another thing is very important: A good partnership with the operators, catering-company and crewing company. In case of PALOMA they all do a brilliant job: Hansa Kreuzfahrten (and their sale-partners Dertour, Neckermann, Kuoni, etc.), Tiberio Corte as a caterer and Vival Marine as the crewing-office.
Of course, I can't judge about the large cruiselines because you can't compare D&P Cruises and the PALOMA to the leading cruiselines. But it was just a little example to say that low rates will not necessary mean that a company faces bankrupty, no matter which position they have in the industry.

Posts: 1680 | From: OSC Luxembourg | Registered: Nov 98 | IP: Logged

Nesklau
First Class Passenger
Member # 3310

posted 10-19-2002 04:49 PM

I am talking about cruising with Princess, Holland America, NCL, Carnival and other of the same category.
You can see the low prices everyday in the internet.
I am sure the breaking even cost of Paloma is considerably lower than bigger and modern ships.
These offers are clearly signs of future problems.
I sincerely hope to be wrong.

Posts: 26 | From: Ilhabela, Brasil | Registered: Aug 2002 | IP: Logged

Eric
First Class Passenger
Member # 2724

posted 10-19-2002 04:50 PM

Best deal I have seen in past week is P&O's Arcadia---fly UK Acapulco 5 dec trans, 14 night cruise to Valparaiso, trans Santiago, flight back to UK all for 699 GB pounds ($1050) a great deal & I do not think P&O are on the danger list
Eric

Posts: 421 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2002 | IP: Logged

moodus2
First Class Passenger
Member # 2414

posted 10-19-2002 05:27 PM

bankruptcy? quite possible.
look at how many ships carnival
built at $400 million plus.
the mv queen mary 2 cost in excess of $800 million.
then you have ncl,princess,rcl
and carnivals other lines.
how many cabins to fill?
quite a few. and who is going to
fill these cabins when most of
the ships are in carribean waters? retired american?
how much disposible income do
they have with the economy hurting and the stock market
in rough shape!
then there is the price of fuel
oil for these thirsty diesel
propeled ships. maintaince?
sure, and thats not cheap.
carnival wants to purchase
princess for $5 billion !
there goes their equity.
whatch ccl and rcl stocks.
why have they not gone up in
value?

Posts: 473 | From: moodus,ct. | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged

Dolphins
First Class Passenger
Member # 2043

posted 10-19-2002 07:38 PM

I think Carnival would be the last cruise entity to go bankrupt. Their ships almost always sail full and they probably are the best managed company, wise enought to leave HAL as it was. I suspect some of the other smaller lines are in the most trouble.

Posts: 324 | From: Commack, New York | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged

DAMBROSI
First Class Passenger
Member # 100

posted 10-19-2002 08:22 PM

I still believe it is too much tonnage out there. The ships are too big anyway.
They are less personal as my
husband and I experienced on
our recent cruise on the SENSATION. I mean for those of us experienced in cruising, the trend is definitely here. Cruise lines are going to have to rethink their strategies.
It's that simple.

Posts: 2554 | From: Florida, USA, Where the Legend SS NORWAY sailed from. Moving back to FL next yr. | Registered: May 99 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 10-19-2002 09:08 PM

I don't think these companies are run by idiots... They know exactly what they're doing.

It's amazing when you actually look at the numbers of what a minute percentage of the international vacation market even considers a cruise... There is so much market out there that has not even begun to be exploited, especially in other markets like Asia and so on. Even here in the US the market is not saturated... The current market might be, but there is a constant influx of first-timers who weren't in the market at all a year or two or ten ago. This constant case of ships sailing full with people whose eyes are newly opened to the cruise industry shows that there is the demand to justify more supply... And remember that cruising is such a tiny fragment of the market, and how much of the overall travel market cruise lines have to go before they really become major on the internatonal vacation scene.

Aside from so-called "common sense" I'd like to see where you're getting all this information that tells you that "bankruptcy is quite possible" among major players of the cruise industry...

And if any cruise company were to go under it would NOT be Carnival... They are in a unique place at the ver top of the industry.

Sure Premier and Commodore and Renaissance went under but those were smaller, less financially stable companies. We've had all sorts of recessions and no major industry has actually been wiped out... There could be some general rough times ahead in the industry but I hardly think it will suddenly collapse!

If they couldn't afford to sell these cruises at those prices, they wouldn't be doing it. If they didn't calculate that more tonnage was needed, they wouldn't be ordering it. Anything suggesting out of the blue that the industry is going to collapse and so on is nothing more than pure idle speculation.

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

Nesklau
First Class Passenger
Member # 3310

posted 10-19-2002 09:14 PM

Good point Moodus2.
I also agree with other replies talking about tonnage in excess and decrease of cruisers.
I don´t think P&O is in danger, but why they are selling Princess?

Posts: 26 | From: Ilhabela, Brasil | Registered: Aug 2002 | IP: Logged

moodus2
First Class Passenger
Member # 2414

posted 10-19-2002 10:09 PM

if there is such a demand out
there then why are the prices
of the cruises so low?
the cruise lines operate just
like the airlines.
even though the airlines are
losing money they rather fill
the seats at a lower price then
to have a plane go half empty.
do you think the cruise lines
are managed by geniuses?
hardly,it is who you know and
how you play the game.
the economic tide has changed
along with the threat of toerrism. the fear of flying,
the long distances to ports to
drive to. plus how many new and
old cruisers alike do you hear
complaining about the cruise they just took! many, and those
you can count on not cruising
again. i have gone on many
cruises and have not found one
that would bend over backwards
to please me. not that i was
dissatisfied with any cruises
i have taken. finally just
watch the stocks.

Posts: 473 | From: moodus,ct. | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged

Lorry
First Class Passenger
Member # 2621

posted 10-19-2002 10:55 PM

I agree, at first glance it looks mighty appealing; however, the taxes and port charges, etc. are almost as much as the wonderfully attractive rates being promoted, certainly more than I have ever been quoted by my "legit" travel agent. I think it's the old "bait and switch" approach...example: I responded upon receipt to a recent Princess promotional mailing for Hawaii offering 7 different departure dates at incredible fares. I was informed that all of those sailings were booked...BUT, I was advised that there were many other dates available at higher rates,...I AM being facetious, of course

Posts: 18 | From: Oakville, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2001 | IP: Logged

Peter P
First Class Passenger
Member # 374

posted 10-20-2002 12:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by moodus2:
then there is the price of fuel
oil for these thirsty diesel
propeled ships. maintaince?
sure, and thats not cheap.
carnival wants to purchase
princess for $5 billion !
there goes their equity.
whatch ccl and rcl stocks.
why have they not gone up in
value?

Well...it is cheap...they dont pay taxes, they get ships that are build by support of various countries, staff is mainly from 3rd world working almost free and without many benefits...

I am sure these ships can compete well against resorts in USA.

Posts: 329 | From: Finland | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

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