Cruise Talk: Renaissance Has Closed It's Doors

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»	Cruise Talk » Cruise Lines » Renaissance Has Closed It's Doors (Page 1)

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Topic: Renaissance Has Closed It's Doors

Jekyll
First Class Passenger
Member # 1878

posted 09-25-2001 03:46 PM

Hi Guys:

Well the worst is starting to happen. We just had a call from our Renaissance Cruises RSM telling us that Renaissanca has closed its doors and is bankrupt.

Anyone else heard anything more?

Posts: 1524 | From: Nowhere | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged

NbBrasil
First Class Passenger
Member # 2042

posted 09-25-2001 04:05 PM

I have seen news confirming that Renaissance ceases operations today and an official announcement is expected soon.
I have just returned from a cruise in the
R-5 and I can say Renaissance is (was) an excellent company.
Too bad, this is the first cruise company casualty of this infamous war.

Posts: 47 | From: S. Paulo - Brasil | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged

titanicsteve
First Class Passenger
Member # 2142

posted 09-25-2001 05:20 PM

OOH noooooo such bad news to hear!!!! Why have they closed down? I thought the cruise industry was doing well! Oh I hope it stops here!!

Posts: 510 | From: Ireland (near Titanic birthplace!!) | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

titanicsteve
First Class Passenger
Member # 2142

posted 09-25-2001 05:29 PM

I have just thought! What will happen their ships?? And they only launched R5 this year? Iwent to the website and got this message :
"Thank you for contacting Renaissance Cruises. As of today, Renaissance Cruises has ceased all cruise operations. Passengers currently onboard our vessels are being disembarked and travel arrangements are being made to get them safely home.
To inquire about your upcoming cruise booking and refund arrangements, please contact your travel agent or call (800) 525-5350. This site will have info as it becomes available"

What are the reasons for this? Very sudden I thought!! Geeeee I am so shocked!

Posts: 510 | From: Ireland (near Titanic birthplace!!) | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 09-25-2001 05:34 PM

And so the first recession of the 21st century is in full swing...very scary indeed. Methinks this is not the last we will hear of large firms closing down over the next few months and years...Remember Pan Am after Lockerbie? WE do have to wonder where the ships will go...

Paddy.

Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Fairsky
First Class Passenger
Member # 781

posted 09-25-2001 05:59 PM

I have not sailed with Ren. but I heard wonderful things about the line, and was hoping to sail with them.

I also wonder what will happen to them. I guess there are 3 options

1. Someone else will buy the cruise line and give it the money and structure it needs to resume business (with little change to the cruise product). It would have to be a large and profitable company (Carnival, P&O Princess...)?

2. Someone will purchase the ships and create a totally new cruise product with them (marking the death of the name Renaissance Cruises).

3. Someone will purchase the ships and absorb them into some existing cruise fleet. Seabourn? Raddison Seven Seas?

What would you like to see happen to the R-Ships?

Posts: 1685 | From: Chicago, Illinois | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Fairsky
First Class Passenger
Member # 781

posted 09-25-2001 06:20 PM

The more I think about the more I could see Renaissance becoming part of the P&O Princess company. They could keep Renaissance as a separate line and market it as a luxury product drawing high-end passengers from both North America (Princess) and Europe (P&O Cruises). The ships could easily move into the Luxury niche, and they fit nicely with the P&O Princess ship design of smaller, intimate, spaces with understated elegant decorating.

I might change the product name, only because 'Renaissance' may have a bad public image after this shutdown. Maybe "Dutchess Cruises" or "Empress Cruises". That would work nice in connection to Princess Cruises.

If anyone at Princess is listening I'd be happy to join the opperation and get it launched.

Posts: 1685 | From: Chicago, Illinois | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

DianaD
First Class Passenger
Member # 1010

posted 09-25-2001 07:12 PM

I dont think this was anything to do with September 11th. Dont forget for a very long time they did not want Travel Agents to sell their product and only recently have they asked Agents to sell for them. As you can imagine Agents were not that pleased with Renaissance as they had openly said they booked direct and even when the agents started booking them commissions were very poor. Remember too that they have been cancelling a lot of cruises and there booking and cancellation policy has not been the greatest. I must agree however that it is very sad, especially for those travelling at this time especially. I would hope there ships would soon be taken over by another cruise line, my first thought was Cunard. We will have to wait and see.

Posts: 308 | From: Whitby, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 09-25-2001 07:29 PM

The growth of the American cruise market has been slowing down for some time now. That's why a lot of Ameican ships will be visiting Europe in summer 2002: the European market is still growing.

Without naming names, several of the up-market (up-scale) cruise lines seem to be sailing into trouble! Maybe 'R' simply priced themselves out of the market?

Ren will have some nice ships for sale, but if Ren can't generate a profit from them, who else could?

It would seem that selling cruises to the masses, as Carnival do so well, is still the way to go?

I think we will see more cruise-line casualties, possibly even somone bigger?

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

DianaD
First Class Passenger
Member # 1010

posted 09-25-2001 07:49 PM

Malcolm, I hate to tell you but a lot of the cruise ships that were going to be in Europe in 2002 and changing their plans and will be elsewhere.

Posts: 308 | From: Whitby, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged

Jekyll
First Class Passenger
Member # 1878

posted 09-25-2001 08:46 PM

Diana's right, a lot of ships are redeploying not only from Europe but within North America.

I hope that the R ships get bought by Carnival and moved into the Cunard brand - they would be a great fit!

Posts: 1524 | From: Nowhere | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged

desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 09-25-2001 09:42 PM

Mickey Arison said, as posted on this board.

Many of the smaller cruise operators are highly leveraged which translates into English: In debt up to their ears with the ships as collateral.

Premier, and Commodore misused the same business model.

Carnival is cash rich $1 billion+ and can purchase a newbuild w/o finanacing.

Not sure about P&O and RCCL, but I would believe their debt loads are small; especially since they are public companies.

The 10K form tells important financial info and they are required to submit it to any potential stockholder by law to be a publicly traded company in the USA.

Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

Marina
First Class Passenger
Member # 1664

posted 09-26-2001 03:01 AM

Hi ya all
Diana is right! the demis of Renaissance has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WTC attack!!
RCI has changed ownerships five times in the last 10 years, The new owners Malvern, UK outfit just several weeks ago. Already beg. of the year Micky Arison stated that they would not buy RCI, as the news ships are too big for really upscale (e.i. Seaboure7SilverSeas) and too small/capacity for mas market. Insiders in the industry knew that RCI was doomed, just a question of time. And this long before the 11.September.
Since RCI was not obliged to post an FMC Bond, those that paid in advance will not see any refunds coming their way. Buyers for the ships, which most likely will be laid up in Greece, are at the present situation not oikely to come forward. Indeed very sad, as the ships are nice. Espcially sad for over 4-thousand employees shoreside and onbaord, with little prospect of finding employment elsewhere.
By the way, the auction of OCEAN GLORY I went as scheduled on the 18th and a buyer came forward, but sofar no news who.
the ms ARCADIA meanwhile still in the great lakes is also up for sale and the fate of ms AEGEAN I is up in the air!!
The future of SILVERSEAS - SEABOURNE - RSSC - will depend on how much money the investors/owners are willing to continue to lose, before pulling the plug and how severe the recession is going to be, although many Politicians are still trying to tell us we are not in a recession!!
Sad days indeed

Posts: 217 | From: Miami Beach, FL.USA | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

titanicsteve
First Class Passenger
Member # 2142

posted 09-26-2001 05:03 AM

Does this mean that by the time I get around to applying for a job on a a cruise ship that the market will be down a bit? I hope the cruise industry will be at least better in three years ??? Please tell me good news!

Posts: 510 | From: Ireland (near Titanic birthplace!!) | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

Jekyll
First Class Passenger
Member # 1878

posted 09-26-2001 10:04 AM

I agree that tough times are ahead. Although 11 Sept did not cause Renaissance to go under, I do believe it has been the catalyst for many travel industry situations we see today.

I believe that Seabourn (w/ Carnivals $$$) and Radisson (w/ Carlson's $$$) will survive. I would not be surprised if Silverseas is next - they have just had a large number of shoreside layoffs (about 9 weeks or so ago) and are a privately owned compnay. I also expect Royal Olympic will disappear along w/ a few of the other smaller players.

It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds!

Posts: 1524 | From: Nowhere | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged

mark m
First Class Passenger
Member # 1851

posted 09-26-2001 01:45 PM

Terrible news for us French Line fans as well...remember, just recently, the French Line (CGM) announced that they were partnering with Renaissance as a first step to getting back into the passenger cruise business.

Posts: 15 | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged

mark m
First Class Passenger
Member # 1851

posted 09-26-2001 01:50 PM

malcolm,
can you explain my "just boarded" status after being registered for quite some time? Just wondering how it all works? Thanks.
Mark M (a 4 time SS Norway cruiser)

Posts: 15 | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 09-26-2001 02:15 PM

Mark, it's not based on time its based on whether we like you or not!

NO I'm only joking!

It is in fact based on the number of posts you have made. Keep posting and you will soon reach the point where you become a "First Class Passenger".

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

David McIntosh
First Class Passenger
Member # 1737

posted 09-26-2001 03:42 PM

Today's edition of The Wall Street Journal has an article about the Renaissance Cruises bankruptcy. The company has filed for chapter 11, which if I remember right, means they will not try to re-organize and instead will simply try to satisfy the creditors. According to the article their management had feared the terrorists attacks would affect their business since many of their cruises are in Europe and Asia and it seems Americans might be less likely to take trips too far afield. The article may be found on page 6 of the B section of today's journal. Same article also says that Royal Caribbean expects to announce layoffs after completing a review of operations.

Posts: 124 | From: Columbia, SC, USA | Registered: Jan 2001 | IP: Logged

M3MAN2K1
First Class Passenger
Member # 2102

posted 09-26-2001 03:43 PM

Dunno if this is a stupid though, but, the Ren. ships would not lok to shabby if Carnival put on their funnel and colors. It would be interesting. -Dan

Posts: 106 | From: FLORIDA! | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

M3MAN2K1
First Class Passenger
Member # 2102

posted 09-26-2001 03:50 PM

quote:
Well the worst is starting to happen.

Huh? How is this soooo bad, I dont mean to be pickey, but how can we feel so sad about a cruise line closeing down? Just because people are going to not be able to go on their vacation, but will get a refund. There are thousands of people just died innocently!
O well, I understand both parts, in a way. -Dan

P.S. You are hearing this from a 13year old boy.

Posts: 106 | From: FLORIDA! | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

David McIntosh
First Class Passenger
Member # 1737

posted 09-26-2001 04:07 PM

Allow me to correct myself but on checking chapter 11 may be where the company will seek to be placed in administration or receivership and try to reorganize. Maybe there's an attorney out there who can take us through the complexities of the US Bankruptcy Code. And Dan, I think you are quite right, we shouldn't forget the greater tragedy.
Best to all
Dave

Posts: 124 | From: Columbia, SC, USA | Registered: Jan 2001 | IP: Logged

topgun
First Class Passenger
Member # 928

posted 09-26-2001 05:29 PM

I am reasonably sure that chapter 11 allows an organiztion to attempt to financially restructure and survive.

It essentially allows the company to attempt recovery without the fear of being closed down by its creditors.

It has been used by major airlines, and also Chrysler in the 70's

Posts: 759 | From: Burlington ont,canada Cruise center of North America | Registered: Nov 1999 | IP: Logged

joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 09-26-2001 05:52 PM

For more about this subject, check out this thread.

Joe at TravelPage.com

Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

Beezo
First Class Passenger
Member # 1505

posted 09-26-2001 07:03 PM

Do you think that it could be possible that a lot of families didn't want to go on the because they only allowed 13+? I remember they recently changed it to that from 18+ because they werent getting enough business.

Brian

Posts: 865 | From: Massachusetts, USA | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP: Logged

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