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» Cruise Talk   » Cruise Lines   » Mirra v Holland American

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Author Topic: Mirra v Holland American
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 11-10-2000 03:08 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hi folks, I borrowed this from another web site because it may be of interest:

The court case of Mirra v Holland American Lines and Cruise Inc. a travel agency, can be a lesson and guidance for the future. While
Cruise inc. was listed as a defendant the decision discussed herein dose not concern this T.A.. since it made a separate settlement with Mirra. Ms. Mirra paid for a seven day cruise in Alaska aboard the Nieuw
Amsterdam. She alleges and filed suit contending the accommodations were not like those described in the HAL brochure nor by the T.A.. In the brochure the stateroom was 219 sq. ft, twin beds, a couch that opened up as a bed nor were other attractive features advertised.

When she complained to the front office she was told that she could not be moved since the ship was completely sold out.

Holland American offered her $1500 to settle her claim that she refused. At the trial, HA: requested the court to dismiss the case on
the grounds that Mirra had not notified HAL in accordance with the terms in the passenger ticket that she intended to sue and file suit. In large print the passenger ticket stipulated she had to notify the cruise
line within 30 days of her claim and file suit within 180 days.

The court agreed with HAL and dismissed the suit. PASSENGERS SHOULD READ AND ADHERE TO THE PASSENGER TCKET ESPECIALLY WHEN SUBMITTING A CLAIM. THE PASSENGER TICKT IS AN ENFORCEABLE CONTRACT.

Source: HermannP

Comments Please


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
sympatico
First Class Passenger
Member # 797

posted 11-10-2000 05:09 PM      Profile for sympatico     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What did she do - take a tape measure with her and measure the room?
Obviously, she did not read the fine print, but then how many of us do.
$1500 sounds like a good settlement - she should have taken it.

Posts: 3305 | From: Toronto, Ont. Canada | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
Green
First Class Passenger
Member # 171

posted 11-10-2000 05:33 PM      Profile for Green     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Think there's more to this than meets the eye. Would like to read the whole report.

In most cabins on that ship bed configuration is at pax choice - 2 singles or queen bed. In the brochure which I have, there is no mention of a pullout bed and none is shown in the picture.

Brochure picture states "Approx.219 Sq.Ft." It also states - "Some rooms in the same category may vary in size and/or have different furniture placement from that pictured."

$1500.00 seems quite generous - she should have taken it.


Posts: 2913 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
LizB
First Class Passenger
Member # 1243

posted 11-10-2000 06:45 PM      Profile for LizB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cabin 219 on the Noordam is NOT LISTED AS A TRIPLE. Therfore, there is no soft bed in that room. She should have known this beforehand when, and if, she booked three in that cabin. Reservations would not have put three in that cabin and her TA would have told her. If she wanted the pull out for two that was her problem...I am surprised they settled giving her $1500. I, too, think there is more to this story!!
Posts: 133 | From: S.Dennis,MA, USA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
sympatico
First Class Passenger
Member # 797

posted 11-10-2000 07:17 PM      Profile for sympatico     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
LizB - from the way I read it HAL offered her $1500. and the judge dismissed the case, so she got nothing.
Posts: 3305 | From: Toronto, Ont. Canada | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
Green
First Class Passenger
Member # 171

posted 11-10-2000 08:08 PM      Profile for Green     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
sympatico - I read it that way too.


Malcolm - where can we read the original report?


Posts: 2913 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
NAL
First Class Passenger
Member # 1102

posted 11-10-2000 08:17 PM      Profile for NAL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree with sympatico, Green and LizB.....
she had a very generous offer. I suggest
she didn't read her contract the same way
she read the company's name wrong: it's
Holland America Line, not Holland American
Lines.

Posts: 2243 | From: Watsontown, PA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
cncservo
First Class Passenger
Member # 532

posted 11-10-2000 10:36 PM      Profile for cncservo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Reading the fine print on RCCL brochure will inform one that they might have to pay RCCL for the Explorer of the Seas if responsible for its demise.
Posts: 170 | Registered: May 99  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 11-11-2000 07:50 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry, but I've only got the summary, as per my original posting. I have no idea where to find the original report.

Maybe some of you 'surfers' can find it?


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
JP
First Class Passenger
Member # 1373

posted 11-11-2000 02:05 PM      Profile for JP     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/courts/appellate/a4818-98.opn.html
Posts: 280 | From: Minnesota, USA | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
sympatico
First Class Passenger
Member # 797

posted 11-11-2000 04:24 PM      Profile for sympatico     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks JP - I didn't realize that this goes back to 1996. I thought it was more recent. Guess it pays to read the fine print.
Posts: 3305 | From: Toronto, Ont. Canada | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
cncservo
First Class Passenger
Member # 532

posted 11-11-2000 04:43 PM      Profile for cncservo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I see there are no comments concerning my reply, but its true! Passengers are responsible for any damage caused to the ship or contents during ones cruise.
Posts: 170 | Registered: May 99  |  IP: Logged
Green
First Class Passenger
Member # 171

posted 11-11-2000 05:23 PM      Profile for Green     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How can anyone wait nearly 18 months before filing a complaint? Makes no sense.

In my book 100 sq.ft. is a far cry from confirmed 219 sq.ft. On that score the complaint was well justified. Strange too that HAL offered $1500 after so long a delay.

Just remember - read and understand all contracts!



Posts: 2913 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
mrblanche
First Class Passenger
Member # 714

posted 11-12-2000 02:37 PM      Profile for mrblanche   Email mrblanche   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cncservo:
Reading the fine print on RCCL brochure will inform one that they might have to pay RCCL for the Explorer of the Seas if responsible for its demise.

People would be astonished if they knew what their liabilities can be. If you went down in the bilges and opened the scuttlebutts, yep, you could have to pay for the ship. Starting a negligent fire that led to the demise of the ship would be the same, by the way.


Posts: 308 | From: Cedar Hill, TX | Registered: Aug 99  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 11-12-2000 05:19 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mrblanche, Would not my travel insurance pay for a new Cruise Ship?
Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Mercy
First Class Passenger
Member # 322

posted 11-13-2000 08:55 AM      Profile for Mercy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This reminds me of the damage that was done to the RCL Ship by all the kids. I heard that thousands of dollars in damage was done to the artwork. Did their parents have to pay?
I think Mirra should have taken the money. Cruise lines have many lawyers on their side to fight lawsuits.

Posts: 697 | From: Stanwood, Wa. USA | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
sympatico
First Class Passenger
Member # 797

posted 11-13-2000 09:28 AM      Profile for sympatico     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mercy:
This reminds me of the damage that was done to the RCL Ship by all the kids. I heard that thousands of dollars in damage was done to the artwork. Did their parents have to pay?
I think Mirra should have taken the money. Cruise lines have many lawyers on their side to fight lawsuits.

Mercy - I think Mirra was looking for a free cruise. Can't understand why she waited so long. As I said before the whole thing sounds fishy to me.


Posts: 3305 | From: Toronto, Ont. Canada | Registered: Jul 99  |  IP: Logged
Jules
First Class Passenger
Member # 1529

posted 11-13-2000 11:06 AM      Profile for Jules        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Two thoughts on this -

1. If HAL expect you register that you intend to sue them within 30 days it does not leave much room to settle the matter in an amicable fashion. Under ABTA (UK) rules companies have 28 days to reply after a complaint is made, the reply can simply be an initial holding letter. It does not foster good will if at this point the passenger states that they will sue.

2. I dont know about elsewhere but here in Scotland there is a law about "unfair contracts". Basically this means that it does not matter what the small print says if a Sherrif feels that the clause is vexatious then it can be dismissed out of hand.

This law is sometimes used in cases where the individual faces the corporate might of company lawyers. It makes it less easy for companies to dismiss people out of hand and say that if they dont like it they can go to court which most people will not do due to the costs.

It depends whose law had durestiction when you book, some companies use their (local)law, others will intromit with the passenger's.

Personally in this case I would have taken the money!


Posts: 136 | From: Scotland | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
tomc
First Class Passenger
Member # 1624

posted 11-14-2000 04:02 PM      Profile for tomc   Email tomc   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
She might have a problem getting her "Mariners Society" upgrade. "Ma'am, we're taking away your red pin."
Posts: 78 | From: Wilkes-Barre PA USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
sunone
Just Boarded
Member # 1675

posted 11-14-2000 09:51 PM      Profile for sunone   Email sunone   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have been on 23 cruises with HAL and have never had one problem as a matter of fact leaving on 2 of them in the year 2001.

SunOne


Posts: 4 | From: ridgeway ontario canada | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged

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