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Topic: Are we getting fair input

daley
First Class Passenger
Member # 878

posted 11-05-1999 12:51 PM

We have cruised since 1980. We didnt do so while our kids were growing up.
We returned to cruising about three years ago.
Problem:- On our last cruise in October was inundated with uncontrolled children.
Our dining table was for ten, ranging from young newlyweds to ourselves, mid fifties. Six of the ten had cruised before.
All agreed that they would not be inclined to cruise again because of the " child problem".
On returning home, the reaction of other persons who had cruised recently was the same without any exception.
Finding this forum, I read it for a few weeks.
On any topic where the child nuisance was raised there was overwhelming support in favor of children aboard ships.
Am I really reading a true cross section of opinion or is it possible that this forum is being rigged in some way.
If there is response, please lets treat each others opinion with respect.

Posts: 24 | From: Windsor, ont, can | Registered: Oct 1999 | IP: Logged

CTrail
First Class Passenger
Member # 64

posted 11-05-1999 02:52 PM

Daley. Does this mean that you won't be cruising again? Seems a drastic step to take, letting others actions determine what sort of, and how much pleasure you will derive from your vacation. We cruised with our daughters but they were 15 and 18 and I believe they were and still are well behaved and thoughtful of how their actions will impact others. I assume, and that sometimes makes an "ASS of U and ME", that the children you are talking about are between the ages of 1 and 5 as this cruise was in October when anyone older than five should have been in school. I would suspect that the kids didn't spoil your cruise but the self-indulgent and self-centered parents of these toddlers spoiled your cruise. If the kids were older than five then what sort of statement is that making about parents who will remove their children from school in the middle of the term in order to have a vacation.

'I want so I will do, to hell with everyone else and the consequences attitude'. Unfortunately, this attitude seems to appear more and more these days.

Sorry that your trip was spoiled, that should never have happened.

By the way, I cruised on Carnival Imagination and didn't notice any unseemly behaviour by either children or adults.

Keeponcruisinginspiteofothers:-)

Posts: 332 | From: Kitchener, ON Canada | Registered: Apr 99 | IP: Logged

Joe at PwC
First Class Passenger
Member # 225

posted 11-05-1999 03:25 PM

I have mixed feelings about the subject. My wife and I are not planning on having any children, so at least we are relieved the task of keeping them under control. While I don't find a completely legitimate reason to say that they are not allowed, certainly certain age minimums should be required, since the entire experience would be lost on children under the age of, say, 5 or so. For example, I saw women with infants on the Triumph recently! I fail to see the point of this. An infant cannot fathom what a cruise is, and resultantly cannot appreciate it. But, as they say, different strokes....

And CTrail, I definitely agree that unruly children are the result of self-important parents.

[This message has been edited by Joe at PwC (edited 11-05-1999).]

Posts: 385 | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

cruiseman
First Class Passenger
Member # 885

posted 11-05-1999 03:34 PM

Kids and cruising does seem to be a "Hot" topic these days. I've been crusing yearly since 90 and have to admit the number of kids on cruises continues to escalate. I've always tried to cruise when school is "In Session" but it seems no matter when you go anymore there's more and more kids aboard.
I have no problem with kids on a cruise as long as they remain the responsibility of the parents...RESPONSIBLE PARENTS THAT IS!
It seems many parents feel the kids can have free reign on the ship since after all the kids are in a "confined space". I overheard one couple talking about their 10 year old and how they hadn't seen her since 11 o'clock that morning and it was past 4 in the afternoon! She'd eventually find her way back to the cabin was their attitude. And no she wasn't in the childrens program either!
I have sat in the casino only to be joined by young (10-12 year olds) on each side of me at slot machines! Where are the parents? Where's the cruise lines responsibilty and enforcement? I've sailed on Carnival, NCL, RCL and Princess and RCL was the only line that I saw enforce this issue and escort the kids out of the casino!
Last year I sailed in early December on the Grand Princess and was appauled at the number of kids on board at that time of the year. I guess more and more people take family vacations no matter what time of year it is...just yank them kids outta school!
Kids unforturnately did get in the way of this cruise. The so-called "Lap Swimming Pool"...what a joke! I'd get up early to swim laps and I'd be swimming and suddenly would be overcome by kids that thought it was fun to have the wave machine toss them out and right into me! NO SUPERVISION again!
Cruise ship or no cruise ship I wouldn't let 8-12 year olds have free reign especially in pool areas with no lifeguards. I not only blame the parents in this instance but also Princess for not allowing the lap pool to be used for it's intended purpose.
The sauna's and steam rooms were also overrun by kids running free...in and out...in and out... One little boy mentioned he could hardly breath in the steam room yet stayed in there with 3 other little boys for 15 minutes. Again ... "responsible" parents outta sight...outta mind.
I guess you take your chances at any given time of the year now when you might be cruising with kids. I'm going on the Carnival Triumph in early December and I only hope that there are fewer and better behaved kids onboard than I experienced on the Grand Princess lastyear.

Posts: 59 | From: Leavenworth, KS, USA | Registered: Oct 1999 | IP: Logged

joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 11-05-1999 03:37 PM

Daley,

I can assure you that this forum is not "...being rigged in some way". It is visited by thousands of people each day and the active participants seem to represent a broad range of cruising experiences and opinions which are typically shared in a mature and respectful manner - as I am sure you are about to find out.

Joe at TravelPage.com

Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

daley
First Class Passenger
Member # 878

posted 11-05-1999 03:37 PM

Joe and C trail, I think you both miss part of my point. In direct conversation, the majority of persons in my findings abhor the disruptions created by children, and to be more precise the 10 plus category. This is not reflected in this forum. Is the forum possibbly rigged. What other conclusions can we draw.

Posts: 24 | From: Windsor, ont, can | Registered: Oct 1999 | IP: Logged

MagnmPI
First Class Passenger
Member # 299

posted 11-05-1999 03:50 PM

I would be annoyed too at the site of uncontrollable children running around unsupervised. And although Disney has two interesting ships out there, I don't have any plans to sail with them, adult only deck or not. But I guess we all have our own tolerance level and definition of bad behavior. My pet peeve would be children holding up elevator service because all the floor buttons were pressed, therefore, making the car stop at every floor. If I saw that I would be prety mad, but I haven't.

I was on Grand earlier this year, all kids that I encountered were courteous. I saw five or six kids, yelling and running around the pool, diving in "cannonball" style creating huge splashes, but it was 8pm and they were the only ones there. Most passengers were indoors enjoying a show or a meal.

My first cruise was in 1980, I was 10. The experience taught me not only how to dance and make new friends, but also dinner manners, "Which fork do I use first?".

Posts: 545 | From: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Charles Van Doren
Just Boarded
Member # 891

posted 11-05-1999 03:55 PM

...ok, all those in favor of disruptive children in the 10 plus category please raise your hand. This forum must be full of them.

Posts: 2 | Registered: Nov 1999 | IP: Logged

asoowal
First Class Passenger
Member # 485

posted 11-05-1999 04:08 PM

Daley,
One can only assume that it is your circle of contact that is not a broad cross section of the cruising public rather than our forum which is multi-national and very broad.

I am a 50 yr old parent of a 9 yr old, and a retailer. He will be cruising with us in early Feb. on the Grand. It will be his second cruise, the first was 3 yrs ago on the Ecstacy. We are travelling in a group of 22 persons from 9 to 88 yrs old. We will have young teens and octogenarians. There is much for him to onboard to keep him occupied, and not uncontrollable.
As far as school work is concerned, besides being a good student, his teacher is suppling us with his work for the week which he will do onboard. The unwritten rule at school, family time is most beneficial, and the school understands.

Posts: 68 | From: Plymouth Meeting, PA, USA | Registered: Feb 99 | IP: Logged

CTrail
First Class Passenger
Member # 64

posted 11-05-1999 04:19 PM

Daley and Charles.
Maybe I did miss your point, but let's put whole subject in perspective and place the blame where it really belongs. Just suppose that when you were ten years old your Mom and Dad let you eat 10 Sundaes. They didn't seem to mind so it must have been OK. Now you went to see a friend and both of you were driven to a movie by your friend's Mom. While on the way you got violently ill from eating the ten Sundaes and threwup all over the car. Your friend's Mom wasn't impressed with you because of what you did. You thought things were OK because your parents let you have the Sundaes. Shouldn't your frined's Mom have been mad at your parents, not you, for acting in an irresponsible manner.

Don't blame the kids for their actions on the cruise because they are only doing what their parents are allowing them to do.

Justathought:-)

Posts: 332 | From: Kitchener, ON Canada | Registered: Apr 99 | IP: Logged

daley
First Class Passenger
Member # 878

posted 11-05-1999 05:34 PM

Asoowal. Thanks for your input. I"m really pleased with the response and I hope for more, yourself included. I was disappointed with your first paragraph. I had hoped that you might at least respect my opinion even if you didnt agree with it as I indicated in the beginning

Posts: 24 | From: Windsor, ont, can | Registered: Oct 1999 | IP: Logged

Paddy
First Class Passenger
Member # 357

posted 11-05-1999 07:02 PM

I have been on two cruises with Airtours. Their market is mainly British people, so during the summer, there are several families on board. On my first cruise on Seawing in July 1997, there were not many families onboard as english schools don't get off until August. There were a few Northern Irish families on though as we get off in late june thru to september. I do have to say though that any families we did encounter were really nice. We sat at dinner with the chief engineer, and his wife and 15 year old son, and they were the nicest people you could hope to meet. the second cruise on the Carousel, was in August, so there were more kids on board, but they were nice enough. During quizez however, they all got together and joined a team against all the adults and the craic was great. Fun for all the family!

To try to avoid kids, there are a few things to try. I would advise not only trying to goo during term time, but to pick slightly smaller ships. It does not surprise me in the least that there are hundreds of kids on Grand Princess. Lots of swimming pools and activities, and as Princess attract the more well-to-do customer, many off the kids are going to be uppity pretentious "daddy buy me a lexus NOW!" brats.I would advise a max of 1500 passengers. I plan to go on the Sunbird (Song of America)next July, and that ship will probably be the biggest I would want to go on.

P.S. Kudos to you daley! A topic which attracts 11 replies in one day is not to be sneezed at.

Posts: 763 | From: Belfast, Ireland | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

daley
First Class Passenger
Member # 878

posted 11-05-1999 07:38 PM

Paddy, thanks for the kind words. Go for the old Song of America. I went to Bermuda on her a few times when she was RCCl. A really nice ship.

Posts: 24 | From: Windsor, ont, can | Registered: Oct 1999 | IP: Logged

Lisette
First Class Passenger
Member # 282

posted 11-05-1999 09:01 PM

My husband and I have cruised twice a year for the past 4 years we are in out late 30s and we have one son he is 11. We have taken him on all our cruises but one and we have never has a problem with him he is either with us or in the kids program, I always know where he is whether he be at home or on a cruise. We always travel during the school times and take him out, but we always have homework for him to do and he always spend at least 1 hour a day on homework. My son has straight As at school and I feel that a cruise can be as good an education. I feel that we are responsible parents and I am sorry that you have had bad experiences with children we have never had any. We will continue to take our son on cruises!!!!!!!

Posts: 32 | From: Mississauga | Registered: Nov 98 | IP: Logged

asoowal
First Class Passenger
Member # 485

posted 11-05-1999 09:19 PM

I was respecting your opinion, but twice you accused that the board was rigged. You asked what other conclusions could be reached, and I offered a very likely alternative.

Posts: 68 | From: Plymouth Meeting, PA, USA | Registered: Feb 99 | IP: Logged

Green
First Class Passenger
Member # 171

posted 11-05-1999 10:13 PM

Hi daley – it’s unfortunate that you had a bad cruise experience – what ship were you on? I don't think the posts are rigged - opinions are wide and varied and sometimes quite heated!
We make a point of cruising and taking vacations when schools are in session (Christmas and New Year the exception) so have not been overly exposed to badly behaved kids.
The fault lies with the parents (grandparents too with the little ones) of that there is no doubt.
Kids behave on cruises, in restaurants and other public places as they do at home – it’s been called ‘self expression’ – in a pigs eye – it reflects the parents complete lack of consideration for others – the ‘I’m all right Jack’ attitude.
7 day voyages attract more children than do 10 day or longer trips and the cruise line also makes a difference.
On Holland America Line (our favourite) no one under 18 is permitted in the Casino; cannonballing in the pools is very much a no no and kids in hot tubs and saunas are quickly evicted.
Mega ships, with a multitude of facilities, are bound to attract parents who just want their kids entertained/occupied and out of the way – we’ll avoid them.
Don’t give up on cruising yet – it’s such a wonderful way to vacation.

Posts: 2913 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

daley
First Class Passenger
Member # 878

posted 11-05-1999 10:20 PM

Asoowal:-I"m sorry that I missed your point. Mine is that from face to face discussion with persons of various age groups and marital and financial status with and without children, almost without exception, all consider that children shipboard are a nuisance to them. This is not reflected in this forum. Why?

Posts: 24 | From: Windsor, ont, can | Registered: Oct 1999 | IP: Logged

Joe at PwC
First Class Passenger
Member # 225

posted 11-05-1999 10:35 PM

daley, as an FYI, you may want to consider Renaissance. I have heard that they do not allow children on board (at least the R1 through R5 - I don't know about the rest of the fleet). They are a bit upscale, though, but from what I've heard, if you're willing to put up a little extra (and arrange for your own flights even though they cost a bit more), the cruise experience with them is very good.

Posts: 385 | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

CTrail
First Class Passenger
Member # 64

posted 11-06-1999 07:32 AM

Daley, it seems that a section of the people that you talked with are a part of the problem. The ones with the children that consider them nuisances on board and therefore if they take their kids on a cruise, they would let them go bother others because they don't want to be restrained by that parental responsibility thing.

As far as this forum being not fair, not a chance.

Example, you did not vote for Harris and neither did your friends and associates but he still got elected so from your viewpoint very few people voted for him. When talking to the public at large, a greater percentage voted for him, but does that make the public forum rigged, no, it is just the wider viewpoint, that's all.

(for the non-canadian and non-ontario residents M.Harris is the Premier of our province)

Nowgotakeontheday:-)

Posts: 332 | From: Kitchener, ON Canada | Registered: Apr 99 | IP: Logged

Mercy
First Class Passenger
Member # 322

posted 11-06-1999 11:55 AM

I really don't understand the parents (and I'm a parent) that get so upset when people say they have had bad experiences with kids on cruise ships. They take it as a personal attack on thier own kids. Obviously if THEIR kids are well behaved, then these are not the kids who create the problem! I too have seen kids playing slot machines and running in packs (twenty kids) up and down the staircases bumping into people and leaving melted ice cream cones on the deck by the pool where we try to walk. One couple we know had a baby in the cabin next to them that cried in the night, as babies do, and they couldn't change cabins because the ship was full. These people complaining are not BAD folks, so don't be so sensative. Haven't you ever been in the grocery store and some kid is screaming and having a tantrum because he/or she isn't getting what they want? Same thing on a ship. Ships are like little towns you know! I would say most families are on 7 day cruises. A ten or more cruise would help. When my kids were little and started acting up, I would LEAVE the store and tell them. "If you can not act in a civilized manner, then we can not be in public. It is not polite to upset and disturb others". I didn't have to do it more than a couple of times and they were fine after that. Children do what is expected of them. I have been on two cruises during Spring vacation and the majority were fine. But in such a small space the ones that don't behave can ruin it for some people.

Posts: 697 | From: Stanwood, Wa. USA | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

daley
First Class Passenger
Member # 878

posted 11-06-1999 12:21 PM

I think that this forum is drifting from my original question. Probably I didnt word it properly. Can I restate it as follows:-
"I believe that the majority do not enjoy the cruising experience when there are chidren on board creating a nuisance" Am I right or wrong?

Posts: 24 | From: Windsor, ont, can | Registered: Oct 1999 | IP: Logged

MagnmPI
First Class Passenger
Member # 299

posted 11-06-1999 01:43 PM

I don't know if there is a right or wrong to that question, since we all may define what constitutes a "nuisance" differently. My definition would be kid's running in public spaces, yelling and splahing in the saunas. And if there were incidents like that occurring several times a day for all seven days of a cruise, I may consider it a negative experience. But, I haven't been exposed to behavior like that as yet. There may have been one or two incidents that I may consider a nuisance during the entire trip, but not enough "ruin my cruising experience".

Posts: 545 | From: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

asoowal
First Class Passenger
Member # 485

posted 11-06-1999 02:13 PM

Now my peeve is when there is a large group on the cruise that will impair my cruise experience. An example, last year on the Elation there were 400 Bingo players in a private tournament. They occupied one of the lounge rooms for the entire week, and disrupted the scheduled entertainment, that damaged my cruise experience. The year before on RCI there was a business organization with about 250 persons...DRUNK..for the week. This was the last time I will sail RCI because they did nothing to control the crowd wherever on the ship they were. I think that when a large group books spaCE, it should become public knowledge. I may then make a decision if I want to cruise on that sailing or not. This includes holiday sailings that may have 30% college kids, or whatever other group may impact my experience.

Posts: 68 | From: Plymouth Meeting, PA, USA | Registered: Feb 99 | IP: Logged

Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 11-06-1999 04:37 PM

Hi Daley, Sorry to here that Kids spoilt your Cruise. Whether this forum is 'Pro' or 'Anti' kids, I think there will always be Kids on certain cruise lines because family trade represents a big 'segment' of the market. For example, Carnival's 'fun ships' cater for the lively family crowd. Try Celebrity or maybe HAL next time. These lines are often less attractive to families.

Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

daley
First Class Passenger
Member # 878

posted 11-06-1999 05:03 PM

Thankyou all for your input. I have retired from this subject to stir the pot elsewhere on this forum.

Posts: 24 | From: Windsor, ont, can | Registered: Oct 1999 | IP: Logged

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