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Author

Topic: Tipping on HAL

Sherry
First Class Passenger
Member # 421

posted 10-01-1999 06:07 PM

There was a big discussion on another bulletin board about Holland American's tipping policy. I thought they advertised 'no tipping', but the consensus on the other board is that tipping is very much expected.

In previous posts on this board, people have stated the 'no tipping' is one of the reasons they like Holland America.

So, should we expect to tip or not? I don't mind tipping, but I don't like this inconsistency.

Posts: 66 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!

sympatico
First Class Passenger
Member # 797

posted 10-01-1999 08:50 PM

There is no inconsistency. Do what you want not what other people tell you to do. I am copying this from the HAL Brochure: A Long-standing tradition of HAL is our "Tipping not required" policy. Because you are our guest, it is our goal to make sure you receive the finest service possible. Our "tipping not required" policy ensures that the professional and gracious service you receive on board is truly sincere, and that we are dedicated to providing you the most relaxed cruise vacation, not simply performing service in return for tips. You are free, however, to extend monetary recognition if you wish; it's entirely up to you. (Company policy prohibits us from suggestion how much.)"
Tip if you want. If you don't want to tip, don't. No one will give you and envelope and tell you how much to put into it. In 34 cruises only once did we cut down on a tip to a rude cabin steward - we only gave him a very small monetary amount. The crew is so gracious and accommodating that we never felt we HAD to tip, but we did as we appreciated the service we got.
HAL does not state "no tipping" they state "tipping not required".

Posts: 3305 | From: Toronto, Ont. Canada | Registered: Jul 99

Green
First Class Passenger
Member # 171

posted 10-01-1999 10:35 PM

I can only repeat ÔsympaticoÕ - "There is no inconsistency". It is inconceivable that so many people confirm cruise reservations, package holidays, all inclusives, etc. etc; and make deposits (frequently non-refundable) with no idea of what they expect to receive. Surely before booking anything, a cruise, a package vacation or what have you, a brochure is the first thing you look at. Tour Operators, Cruise Lines - ALL are obliged to spell out, in detail, Conditions, Rules and Regulations, Cancellation Penalties, etc. etc. - in other words "THE FINE PRINT" . As a traveller it is your responsibility to read 'the fine print' - how else can you know what you are paying for?. A good travel agent will draw your attention to ' the fine print' and suggest that you read it - THE READING IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY- if you donÕt understand something then you must ask questions - a good agent will answer them to your satisfaction Ð before you make a commitment. REMEMBER - your deposit indicates acceptance of Ôthe fine print!

Posts: 2913 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99

Mercy
First Class Passenger
Member # 322

posted 10-02-1999 12:04 AM

I can REALLY sympathize with you. We just took a tour of the Stadendam in British Columbia a few weeks ago. The travel agent that took us through the ship, and also sponsored the trip, was asked that very question about the tipping on Holland America ships. He said that the brochure said no tipping was required. But he also said that if the staff did a good job then a tip at the end of the cruise would be in order. ?????? We talked about it on the bus ride home. The people that went on H.A. before, said they all left tips! You don't want to feel like your mean or cheap. But if the tip is included, then you shouldn't have to feel pressured to tip. Good Luck!

[This message has been edited by Mercy (edited 10-02-99).]

Posts: 697 | From: Stanwood, Wa. USA | Registered: Sep 99

MagnmPI
First Class Passenger
Member # 299

posted 10-02-1999 02:54 AM

I don't have a problem with the "tipping not required" policy, but, what about the passengers on their very first cruise? They already expect alot after spending four, five or six thousand dollars for a seven day trip. Then while on the trip, they received excellent service from every department(cabin steward, waiter, assistant waiter). They want to reward the waiter for his special service, so at the end of the cruise they give him $20.(U.S.) thinking they were being very generous. They don't give the assistant waiter or cabin steward anything because they are not used to tipping for those services.

Also does HAL add 15% to all bar and wine checks, I'm guessing they don't. And if they don't, do you tip for every drink you order with cash?

Posts: 545 | From: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: Aug 99

mitch
First Class Passenger
Member # 708

posted 10-02-1999 04:44 AM

Can anyone who has been on HAL line let us know whether the tip has been added to beverages or not? or are we paying extra by asumong it hasn't.

Posts: 87 | From: australia | Registered: Aug 99

sympatico
First Class Passenger
Member # 797

posted 10-02-1999 09:14 AM

NO,NO,NO. HAL DOES NOT INCLUDE A 15% TIP ON DRINKS, NOR ARE THE TIPS INCLUDED IN YOUR FARE.
I have seen people tip at the bar when they sign their chits. My husband ran a tab at the bar each day and at the end of the trip he went around and tipped each person that he wanted to. Sometimes he had a huge list and it amounted to quite a bit of American money (am Canadian) but he enjoyed the staff and they loved him. Unfortunately he passed away 4 weeks ago and everyone is going to miss him. As soon as we were on board he would get a big smile from someone and they all called him "Sir Peter" and he loved it so yes he did tip them all. Sure this adds up, but for heaven's sake if you enjoyed the service and hospitatlity, tip the person, you can't take it with you. In the dining room we only tipped our dining waiter and his assistant, if he had one (only ate dinner there) and did not tip the maitre'd or the captains. We tipped our cabin steward. A cabin steward whom we have know for many, many years once told us that a gentleman on a World Cruise gave him a $25.00 tip at the end of the cruise - big spender.
You cannot pay for drinks with cash on HAL ships. It is a cashless society on board. If you want to tip the bartender/waiter after you sign your chit, which they usually don't give you until you are finished drinking - you may be ordering a couple of rounds - this is your perogative, but you don't have to tip then or at all. It's up to you and nobody is going fault you for it. On our very first cruise 18 years ago, one young couple ran out of money and they apologized to the dining room waiter. He was fine with it. They just overspent on all the things they did on shore.
I think we should put this tipping business to rest - enough has been said about it.
Mercy: I think what your travel agent was saying was the same thing Green and I have been saying all along - tip if you want, don't tip if you don't want to.
You will NEVER find envelopes in your cabin for tips or be told what to tip and if this ever does happen the Alumni, of which there are thousands of us, will raise HELL.

Posts: 3305 | From: Toronto, Ont. Canada | Registered: Jul 99

Sherry
First Class Passenger
Member # 421

posted 10-02-1999 10:24 AM

I'd rather get the envelopes. I don't think tipping is "required" anywhere, but I always tip well if the service is good. I think HAL is sending a false message by advertising "no tipping required" when it seems clear that tipping is very much expected.

Posts: 66 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!

Green
First Class Passenger
Member # 171

posted 10-02-1999 12:35 PM

Hi Sherry - HAL will give you all the envelopes you want - just go to the Front Desk and ask for them - they are yours to do with as you please.

Posts: 2913 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99

jal33406
First Class Passenger
Member # 603

posted 10-02-1999 05:54 PM

A few observations on this subject:
I have met a lot of folks, especially first-timers, on cruises who have never even seen a cruise brochure. Shame on their travel agents.
On HAL we always have cocktails in the Ocean Bar and tip that staff on the last night of the cruise. Same with cabin steward, waiter, and even the wine steward.
It seems that some European tour operators, and some upscale cruise lines, in fact, do include gratuities in the fare.
If British or German folks are confused with HAL's policy, it is understandable.

Posts: 35 | From: West Palm Beach FL USA | Registered: Aug 99

CTrail
First Class Passenger
Member # 64

posted 10-02-1999 08:16 PM

I'm sorry, but the "Tipping not required" statement leads one to believe that this ship line is paying each and every staff member a comparable wage to those in similar stations on other lines after tips. This means that you have already paid the tip as a hidden part of your fare. Therefore if you would normally tip according to the industry/line standard then no tip should or would be required but if you normally exceed these standards for tipping then some form of remuneration would be in order.
Remember that most positions on cruise ships pay very little and depend on the generousity of the passengers to boost the wages to a reasonable level with tips.

Posts: 332 | From: Kitchener, ON Canada | Registered: Apr 99

Green
First Class Passenger
Member # 171

posted 10-04-1999 11:38 PM

The above post looks really garbled - can't explain why - it's very clear on my copy so I'm reposting in the hope that it comes out as I printed it.
JOE, PLEASE DELETE THE PREVIOUS POST.
New try -
I find it difficult to accept this statement – I know, on a personal level, several people working, by choice, on cruise ships – many are planning on a 2 to 3 year stint – in their words, "…..it’s an ideal way to save money and see places I could never otherwise hope to visit." An example – a fully qualified Registered Nurse (daughter of a doctor).
How many other jobs leave your pay cheque intact and provide accommodation, food, clothing and transportation to dreamed of ports and continents? I’m sure they are well aware of the long hours and minimal down time before making the final commitment - at worst, it’s for 12 months – in my next life I may just sign on with a cruise line!
On our last cruise, the Rotterdam V1, April Trans-Atlantic - met up with a waitress I’d met the previous year on the same crossing. Of course I asked how things were going – she told me she ‘d signed on for another year – just to give herself ‘a cushion’ for the business she would be starting.
Many of our cabin stewards have told us of their plans for the future – and for how many more years they will ‘sign on’. Then there are the truly ‘professional’ stewards, waiters etc. – they love life at sea and seem well satisfied with their lot – they are supporting families and doing fine – the ‘necessities and must have items’ are paid for from the pay cheque - tips pay for the ‘would love to have’ items (we all have them and, given the opportunity, may decide to ‘moonlight’ or take a part time job)
Enough already – we, like so many others, choose to tip for good service regardless of the cruise line’s policy. If we’re ever on a cruise line that hands out envelopes you can be sure that some, maybe all, will be tossed. TO TIP OR NOT TO TIP AND HOW MUCH IS A PESONAL MATTER AND NOBODY ELSE’S BUSINESS. A cruise is a vacation for relaxation and enjoyment – maybe even a ‘once in a lifetime experience’ so - be considerate of fellow travellers - JUST QUIETLY DO YOUR OWN THING! Will forever shudder at the memory of a ‘showman’ at our table one time who made a big production and fuss about the number of envelopes he was handing out and how much each contained. We were all embarrassed for him.
My apologies for the length of this post but I’m really sick and tired of this
Tipping nonsense. BON VOYAGE!

Posts: 2913 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Sherry
First Class Passenger
Member # 421

posted 10-05-1999 12:08 AM

Thanks CTrail. That's exactly what I meant.

I'm not a very experienced cruiser, and I also thought that HAL must pay their help more so the passengers would not need to tip. I have had people on this board recommend HAL for that very reason.

I don't mind tipping, but I don't like this kind of ambiguity. That's all I was trying to say.

Posts: 66 | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

sympatico
First Class Passenger
Member # 797

posted 10-05-1999 09:08 AM

I was going to write a post to CTrail and Sherry, but I am so fed up with all but Green's comments that I decided to forgo it. How can you people who have not ever sailed on HAL possibly make a comment on how they pay their staff. I completely agree with what Green says. Listen to her, she has obviously sailed for many, many years on HAL, just as I have.

Posts: 3305 | From: Toronto, Ont. Canada | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Rosemary
Just Boarded
Member # 400

posted 10-05-1999 01:42 PM

Has anyone ever heard of pre-paying your tips?? I'm going on a Renaissance Cruise in February and they asked if I wanted to pre-pay tips? I know the cruise lines give you guidelines on what amounts you should tip for each person/job responsbility, but aren't tips based on merit and the quality of service provided? I initially said no to this, but am re-thinking; maybe it's just best to "get it out of the way" and not have to worry about who to tip and how much. Any feedback?

Posts: 2 | From: Fairfield, NJ USA | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

Green
First Class Passenger
Member # 171

posted 10-05-1999 04:06 PM

Rosemary, on this page, on which you have posted, there is a wide range of
'feedback' on tipping - it's a hot topic on several pages of this site and several others. Check them all out, also Cruise Reviews. Believe you'll then have sufficient information to MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION.

P.S. What does the brochure say under'Helpful Hints/General Information'?

[This message has been edited by Green (edited 10-05-1999).]

Posts: 2913 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Kas
First Class Passenger
Member # 250

posted 10-05-1999 07:06 PM

Rosemary - the whole point of tipping is to reward someone for service above and beyond the norm. If you tip in advance you are not making a statement regarding the services you received - you are just paying more upfront for your cruise. If you pre-tip and get bad service are you going to ask for the tip back? Good Luck

Posts: 35 | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

lillian
First Class Passenger
Member # 669

posted 10-05-1999 07:56 PM

We sailed on the Statendam. We picked HAL that time because it was a bit more than other cruises, but it was no tipping required.

We tipped the waiter and busboy because they worked so hard and were very accomodating.

However we did not tip the cabin steward. We keep our cabin very tidy and neat. When he saw us, however, in the hallways he did greet us by name. We left the cabin early on disembarkation day so that they could get the cabin ready for the next passengers. We said good bye to him, and he did not answer. Thinking that he did not hear us we said good bye again louder, and still no answer. We felt that he was annoyed that we did not leave a tip.

Posts: 95 | From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Green
First Class Passenger
Member # 171

posted 10-05-1999 09:09 PM

Well said Kas - fat chance you'd have of getting a refund!

Posts: 2913 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Green
First Class Passenger
Member # 171

posted 10-05-1999 10:17 PM

For lillian - no one will ever know for sure if that steward heard you say 'goodbye’. Give him the benefit of the doubt and don’t feel guilty.
Regardless of the Cruise Line and how neat and tidy you are, stewards clean and look after your cabin, bathroom etc. throughout the cruise – make/change beds, - bedspreads on for daytime decorum – off and neatly stowed for turndown service at night. They deliver daily programmes, newsletters, announcements etc., beachtowels if you want them, ice, fruit, all those things. How many times did you return to used towels and facecloths, no Kleenex or toilet tissue? Very few we'll bet. These services are all performed to suit your schedule (as they should be).
It is said that each steward is responsible for between 12 and 15 cabins. Personally I'd hate to juggle my schedule to accommodate the convenience and preferences of so many people every day, to say nothing of finding time for a meal and a few hours sleep.
On disembarkation day those fellows are not only room stewards, they become baggage handlers too and everything has to be done in the space of a few hours so that the cabin is pristine for the new passengers.
The fact that you presumably didn't ask for any special services justifies your decision not to tip. However, having said all that we believe that those fellows do deserve some show of appreciation at the end of the cruise.
One more point – That the stewards acknowledge people by name always amazes me – particularly when the name is probably ‘foreign’ to them – and most do it with new names every 7 days or so!
We don't have unlimited funds but after a hotel night we usually leave a couple of dollars for the room maid - It’s OUR DECISION - AS SHOULD BE YOUR CRUISE TIPS.
Great cruising!!

Posts: 2913 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Crooza
First Class Passenger
Member # 92

posted 10-05-1999 11:44 PM

Green:

You've provided a thought provoking point in your last post.

It "only" took us three days to remember the names of those that tendered to us at dinner. Every couple of months, we test ourselves to see if we still remember them because we never want to forget those names. So in honor of three young gentlemen that MADE our trip on HAL, here goes: SAIF, HARIONO and KUSNANDI.

And yes, they knew our names almost immediately.

Sherri: My guess is that on completion of your trip, no matter what your pre-cruise posture is on tipping, you'll be running for those envelopes by the end of the cruise.

Follow your heart!

Posts: 32 | From: MA | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

sympatico
First Class Passenger
Member # 797

posted 10-06-1999 08:52 AM

I totally agree with Green & Crooza. Green you beat me to the punch - I was going to say exactly what you had said. And yes, Crooza, they always remember our names from cruise to cruise but do we remember theirs. My husband would say to me in front of one of the waiters "you remember so & so" and to tell you the truth unless it was someone I had had contact with throughout the cruise I wouldn't remember him, but they sure remembered us. They have a fantastic memory.

Posts: 3305 | From: Toronto, Ont. Canada | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Green
First Class Passenger
Member # 171

posted 10-06-1999 12:43 PM

We do try to remember 'our staff' names - have learned to carry a small notepad and pencil for the first couple of days and write them down - pronouncing them correctly is something else again! It's all part of the wonderful cruising experience - here's to many more.
Cheers!

Posts: 2913 | From: Markham, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Sherry
First Class Passenger
Member # 421

posted 10-07-1999 10:35 AM

Hi sympatico, Green,

Sympatico, I apologize if I gave the impression that I think I know anything about HAL's salary practices. I don't. I was explaining the impression I got from the "no tipping required" advertising, and from posts I'd seen about the convenience of their policies.

You are right, I don't know anything about HAL, other that what I've read. My whole point is this: the impressions that I formed from seeing the "no tipping" advertising apparently gave me the wrong ideas. I stand corrected, but I'll bet I'm not the only one that misunderstood.

In my own defense, I never said I don't want to tip. I have been generous in tipping because in my few cruises I have received excellent service. I want to make this clear, because some responses seem to indicate I begrudge the tips. I only question (what seems to me) the misleading advertising. IMHO. As far as I can tell, there was no tipping REQUIRED on any of the cruises I've been on, other than the bar tab.

Some of you veteran cruisers need to give us novices a break. Green is 'sick and tired of this' and sympatico is 'fed up'. Again, I apologize.

That said, I'd rather have it spelled out for me what is expected. Then I can make my own decisions. When there is an ambiguous 'no tipping required', it can be misunderstood. Not everyone disagrees with me.

Posts: 66 | Registered: A Long Time Ago! | IP: Logged

CTrail
First Class Passenger
Member # 64

posted 10-07-1999 12:35 PM

Very well put Sherry. I don't think that anybody that cruises begrudges tipping for the marvelous service we all receive. I do think that HAL needs to remove the "no tipping required" statement or define more clearly the paramaters, ie. "Tips are not included in your fare", otherwise it could be misleading.

Haveagreatcruise:-)

Posts: 332 | From: Kitchener, ON Canada | Registered: Apr 99 | IP: Logged

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