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»	Cruise Talk » Technically Speaking » diesel-electric drive (Page 1)

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Author

Topic: diesel-electric drive

igecot
Just Boarded
Member # 6449

posted 04-27-2006 09:14 AM

Hello,

although I searched some hours in the Internet, I have not found a clear information about the propulsion system of following cruise liners, i. e. are they furnished with conventional diesel engines or modern diesel-electric systems?:

Built by AKER:
Star Pisces (ex. Kalypso)
Norwegian Majesty (ex. Royal Majesty)
Radisson Diamond
Silja Opera (ex. Leeward, SuperStar Taurus, Sally Albatross)

Built by ALSTOM:
Monarch of the Seas
Majesty of the Seas
Norwegian Dream (ex. Dreamward)
Norwegian Wind (ex. Windward)

Thanks in advance for any info on this subject

igecot

Posts: 7 | From: Germany | Registered: Apr 2006 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 04-27-2006 09:22 AM

None of the mentioned ships has a diesel electric propulsion system - which I would not consider as "more modern".

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

igecot
Just Boarded
Member # 6449

posted 04-28-2006 03:12 AM

Wow, this was a quick answer!, Thank you.

Why I said modern?
Because if you hava a look to the main 4 shipyards constructing cruise liners, most of the ships delivered in the last 10 years hava a diesel-electric propulsion. So the market trend is clear, i. e. the diesel-electric propulsion pushed the pure diesel propulsion aside.

Posts: 7 | From: Germany | Registered: Apr 2006 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 04-28-2006 07:37 AM

This is true - a diesel electric power plant has many advantages concerning cruise ship operation.
But I would not call it more modern.

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

moodus2
First Class Passenger
Member # 2414

posted 04-28-2006 09:06 AM

the 1933 built queen of bermuda had a steam-electric
powerplant providing power to
4 electric motors.

Posts: 473 | From: moodus,ct. | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged

Jepp
First Class Passenger
Member # 5576

posted 04-28-2006 12:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by moodus2:
the 1933 built queen of bermuda had a steam-electric
powerplant providing power to
4 electric motors.

...and the 1914 built TES Mjölner likewise.
http://www.faktaomfartyg.com/mjolner_1914.htm

/Jepp

Posts: 158 | From: Stockholm, Sweden | Registered: Apr 2005 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 04-28-2006 12:13 PM

Modern diesel electric plant are a bit more advanced - and it is true that some more recent techologies (beside other aspects) made it ineresting again some years ago. But the concept is not 'new' and of course one can not generally say that one kind of power plant is superior to another one.

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

RobHolland
First Class Passenger
Member # 3779

posted 04-29-2006 08:47 AM

Posted by Ernst:

quote:
which I would not consider as "more modern".

IMO diesel electric propulsion with its current possibilities is very modern, as it offers all kinds of propulsioning solutions when bearing in mind the azipod lay out. Propulsioning systems not only consist of engines and generators but it should be seen as a whole.

Posts: 762 | From: ms Rotterdam | Registered: Apr 2003 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 04-29-2006 09:30 AM

Diesel electric propulsion is indeed very attractive for cruise ships. I guess the slight disadvantage of lower efficiency is overcompensated by the advantage of being able to supply the "hotel department" as well as the propulsion system form one "plant".

Also modern diesel electric plants using modern power electronics are certainly much more advanced than "old" setups - e.g. the possibility to contiuously change the rotational speed of the propeller can be very attractive in combination with an adjustable pitch propeller allowing to adopt the advance ratio to optimum efficiency for arbitrary speeds - something wich can not be that easily achieved with 'old' diesel electric plants. (..and also not with pods...)

Nevertheless, as you know there is no general solution for the propulsion of a ship - each technology has advantages and disadvantages - and diesel electric plants are not always the best solution (certainly in most cases for cruise ships) - which is why I do not like the see it dubbed as "modern" vs. old.

[ 04-29-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 04-29-2006 11:08 AM

Diesel Electric does not need a transmission. By reversing engine polarity the porpellors rotate in the opposite direction.

Old fashion steam plants with reduction gears to the propellor shafts had reverse turbines. One never got as much full astern power as forward.

Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 04-29-2006 11:15 AM

It is certainly is easy o to that with a diesel electric setup. Nevertheless, also other solutions offer more power stern.(adjustable pitch propeller - reverse gear)

Let me clarify something:

I HAVE NOTHING AGIAINST DIESEL ELECTRIC PROPULSION - I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT THERE IS NO GENERALLY SUPERIOR SETUP (IMPLIED BY DUBBING IT MORE MODERN) - DIESEL ELECTRIC IS FOR THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF CRUISE SHIPS THE BEST CHOICE

[ 04-29-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

sslewis
First Class Passenger
Member # 3649

posted 05-02-2006 01:40 PM

FYI Patria(1939) was built with de propulsion.
She had a long life with the russians after WW2 and became a troopship before being scrapped in the 80's.
The first large major cruiseliners with DE propulsion were Crown/Regal Princess.

Posts: 2513 | From: Shipspotting Solent shores when weather allows.... | Registered: Feb 2003 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 05-02-2006 02:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sslewis:
[...]
The first large major cruiseliners with DE propulsion were Crown/Regal Princess.

Weren't there some other shipr earlier - e.g. the Crystal Harmony?

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 05-02-2006 03:54 PM

And even earlier the CROWN/REGAL duo in 90 & 91 and the CRYSTAL HARMONY in 1990, there was the FAIRMAJESTY/STAR PRINCESS/ARCADIA in 1989.

(All but the Crystal ship were originaly intented to be for Sitmar, Vlasov was a bit ahead of his time, again).

[ 05-02-2006: Message edited by: Vaccaro ]

Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99 | IP: Logged

igecot
Just Boarded
Member # 6449

posted 05-03-2006 03:42 AM

Anybody knows the type of propulsion of these smaller ships?

Shipyard Delivery Ship Name
Mariotti / Visentini 1994 Silver Cloud
Mariotti / Visentini 1995 Silver Wind
Mariotti 1996 Alexander von Humboldt (ex. Explorer II, Society Explorer, Lindblad Explorer, World Explorer)
Mariotti 1996 Minerva
Mariotti / Visentini 2000 Silver Shadow

Posts: 7 | From: Germany | Registered: Apr 2006 | IP: Logged

Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 05-03-2006 04:18 AM

Anybody knows the type of propulsion of these smaller ships?

Shipyard Delivery Ship Name
Mariotti / Visentini 1994 Silver Cloud
2 semi-rapid Diesels Wärtsilä 6R46, 6 cylinders each driving one kaMeWa pitch adjustable propeller at 124t/min. 15.815HP

Mariotti / Visentini 1995 Silver Wind
2 semi-rapid Diesels Wärtsilä 6R46, 6 cylinders each driving one kaMeWa pitch adjustable propeller at 124t/min. 15.815HP

Mariotti 1996 Alexander von Humboldt (ex. Explorer II, Society Explorer, Lindblad Explorer, World Explorer)
I suppose you mean built in 1969 and refurbished in 1996?
If so, 2 8-cylinder Diesels M.A.K., driving one (only one) pitch adjustable propeller. 3.800HP

Mariotti 1996 Minerva
2 semi-rapid Diesels SEMT-Pielstick type 8PC2.6/2E each driving one kaMeWa pitch adjustable propeller at 150t/min. 9.402HP

Mariotti / Visentini 2000 Silver Shadow
4 6-cylinder Diesel Wärtsilä, twin screw.

Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99 | IP: Logged

igecot
Just Boarded
Member # 6449

posted 05-03-2006 06:46 AM

Thanks for your quick and comprehensive reply.

Regarding the Alexander von Humboldt I'm talking about this ship:

http://www.cruise-community.com/Search/FL_Detail.asp?Itemnav=ship_ship_0442

I think you are right, that it has been built earlier and only refurbished by Mariotti in 1996, but then, the information given by the above mentioned web-site is not really correct (or at least misleading).

Posts: 7 | From: Germany | Registered: Apr 2006 | IP: Logged

Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 05-03-2006 08:51 AM

quote:
Originally posted by igecot:
Thanks for your quick and comprehensive reply.
Regarding the Alexander von Humboldt I'm talking about this ship:
http://www.cruise-community.com/Search/FL_Detail.asp?Itemnav=ship_ship_0442
I think you are right, that it has been built earlier and only refurbished by Mariotti in 1996, but then, the information given by the above mentioned web-site is not really correct (or at least misleading).

Ah ok, I see the confusion, ALEXANDER VON HUMBOLDT is in fact the "old" MINERVA (so see propulsion datas in my above post).

Now regarding the MINERVA you're requesting, perhaps you mean MINERVA II of Swan Hellenic, the ex-R EIGHT? If so, here are propulsion datas:
Diesel-electric, 4 Diesel-alternator groups Wärtsilä 12V32E/ GEC-Alstom (so 12 cylinders), 2 electric motors Cegelec (adjustable rotating speeed by synchro-convertissor), each driving one fix-blades propeller. 12.342HP.

Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99 | IP: Logged

Pascal
First Class Passenger
Member # 5510

posted 05-03-2006 08:58 AM

I may be mistaking, but, wasn't SS Normandie diesel eletric powered ? Anyway, I know for sure she wasn't a steamer.

Posts: 1371 | From: Aix en Provence | Registered: Mar 2005 | IP: Logged

Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 05-03-2006 09:06 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Pascal:
I may be mistaking, but, wasn't SS Normandie diesel eletric powered ? Anyway, I know for sure she wasn't a steamer.

She was Turbo-Electric powered (as VICEROY of INDIA of P&O before her), not Diesel-Electric and yes, she was a "steamer" too (boilers > so steam production > turbines > generators > electric motors > propellers)

[ 05-03-2006: Message edited by: Vaccaro ]

Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99 | IP: Logged

J.S.S.Normandie
First Class Passenger
Member # 6253

posted 05-03-2006 09:33 AM

Normandie had a system of four turbo-electric drive engines. Normandie's turbines were connected to electrical generators. The power from these generators was then sent to the electric motors which drive the propeller shafts.

Twenty-nine boilers, in addition to four auxilary ones, produced the needed steam.

Posts: 1197 | From: Massachusetts where the Brittania was trapped! | Registered: Feb 2006 | IP: Logged

Pascal
First Class Passenger
Member # 5510

posted 05-03-2006 09:41 AM

So she was a steamer...

Posts: 1371 | From: Aix en Provence | Registered: Mar 2005 | IP: Logged

Jepp
First Class Passenger
Member # 5576

posted 05-03-2006 04:00 PM

SS = Steam Ship

Best regards
Jepp

Posts: 158 | From: Stockholm, Sweden | Registered: Apr 2005 | IP: Logged

igecot
Just Boarded
Member # 6449

posted 05-04-2006 02:53 AM

Hi Vaccaro,

I’ve to admit, that I’m confused:

There is the Minerva II, ex. R Eight, sailing for Swan Hellenic, built by ALSTOM in 2001. This ship we can exclude from our discussion, since I have all information, I’m looking for.

But regarding the Alexander von Humboldt, I found

http://www.cruiseserver.net/travelpage/other/former_ship_names.asp

where it is mentioned, that this ship was previously named as Explorer II, Society Explorer, Lindblad Explorer, World Explorer. But you are right, there it is mentioned, that the ship has been built in 1969.

On the other hand, in the cruise community web site (ref. my last message) you get the info, that the ship has been built in 1996 by Mariotti.

Does that mean, that there are actually two cruise liners named Alexander von Humboldt?

Furthermore, you mentioned, that the Alexander von Humboldt was the “old” Minerva. Which of these two ships, if they are two? (This name is not mentioned in the register of former ship names)

Please help me out of this mess.

Posts: 7 | From: Germany | Registered: Apr 2006 | IP: Logged

Vaccaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 465

posted 05-04-2006 03:21 AM

According to this site (Cruiseserver.net), ALEXANDER VON HUMBOLDT is the ex-WORLD EXPLORER and according to the datas found on Cruise Community (the link you provided in your previous post), it is the ex-MINERVA.
To be frank, I really didn't search in deth to sort that out and I did loose track of renamings of ships quit a lot during the past few years (other priorities), so I afraid to say the mess still does remain. If someone can shed light on this...

The positive note is, that in both cases, you have obtained datas regarding propulsion of these two ships... ...

Posts: 1193 | From: France ...where the greatest liners ever are born, ...by far! | Registered: Feb 99 | IP: Logged

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