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Hmm...first 'theatre boxes' at sea, a two story library, Queen Room based on Osbourne Hous, a museum etc.

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[ 02-24-2006: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

Hmm...first 'theatre boxes' at sea,

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Originally posted by Waynaro:

Hmm...is this where the do the split class system?

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An observation, and I don't know whether it will prove true or not; is that QV appears to be more of a class driven ship when compared to her sisters. It seems she will have more private space allocated to Grill guests only than either QM2 or QE2.

I also took note of the theater. Not only are there private "boxes", but note the forward section of the theater on the main floor is separated by an ornate railing. Can I assume the most forward seats (and the most desirable) will be reserved for Grill "guests" only?

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Originally posted by eroller:
An observation, and I don't know whether it will prove true or not; is that QV appears to be more of a class driven ship when compared to her sisters. It seems she will have more private space allocated to Grill guests only than either QM2 or QE2.

I also took note of the theater. Not only are there private "boxes", but note the forward section of the theater on the main floor is separated by an ornate railing. Can I assume the most forward seats (and the most desirable) will be reserved for Grill "guests" only?

Ernie

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The private boxes are fine. I don't see this as class driven, anyone can book a Grill passage and have the perks. Almost every line offers perks of some sort to those booking the most expensive cabins. Class driven is when one is not permitted to book such a cabin purely because of one's status in life.

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Originally posted by PamM:

The private boxes are fine. I don't see this as class driven, anyone can book a Grill passage and have the perks. Almost every line offers perks of some sort to those booking the most expensive cabins. Class driven is when one is not permitted to book such a cabin purely because of one's status in life.

Pam

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Pam,
We obviously have different ideas of what "class driven" means. "Grill Class" on QV is more than "perks" to me, it's a small step to regressing back to a class separated ship (Grill Class and non-Grill Class). On QV, Grill Class is not just a cabin category for dining purposes, but also stands for private deck space and even lounge seating. Can "anyone" book Grill Class? No, if they don't have the money. This is NO different then booking First or Tourist class back in the 30's. If you had the money, you could book First Class plain and simple. No one was going to turn you away. It had little to do with your statue in life and everything to do with how much money you had. The unsinkable Molly Brown is a great example of someone that apparently had little "class", but tons of money. She traveled in First Class. The same might be said of a college professor, who may exude tons of "class" and knowledge and is very well respected in the community, but doesnt have the money to travel First Class (Grill Class). The professor in this example would travel in Tourist back in the day, or "non Grill-Class" today.

I feel QV takes Grill Class to the next level, becoming closer and closer to the class separated ships of a bygone era. When you start having private sections of public lounges is when I begin to have a problem. Note that no other ship I know of sailing today has this type of "perk". Next might be special "hours" in the swimming pool for Grill Class guests only. Of course the pool will be drained and filled with fresh water before the Grill Class guests jump in.

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Originally posted by PamM:
The railing does not go all the way across as a 'barrier'; you can see there is an extra row of seats in the middle of the beginning of the tiers, and an 'entrance' to the flat area below on the left, which one can assume is the same to starboard.

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At this point there is no way for us to know the true purpose of the railing. It could be just for show, yet I know of no other ship to have such a feature in the main theater.

It could also be reserved seating for Grill Class guests as I suggested. I think there are approximately 300 Grill Class guests on QV, so this area up front would be just about the right size.

The fact the rails don't go all they way to the bulkhead means nothing. Chances are with fire safety regulations being what they are, this would not be permitted. It doesn't mean there couldn't be a velvet rope that would bridge the gap between the rail and the bulkheads. Chances are the theater would not be sectioned off for all performances, but none the less the ability to do so would exist if desired. Grill Class guests could even have their own entrance in the forward part of the theater. Most ship theaters usually conceal the forward entrance as it's used as a fire exit only. Odd on QV the forward entrance is quite pronounced and far from hidden.

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Originally posted by eroller:
I feel QV takes Grill Class to the next level, becoming closer and closer to the class separated ships of a bygone era.

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I take your point!

I'm actually against all Cunard style class divisions, on all of their vessels, but as I've already said it is their 'unique selling point'.

I do like 'history' and 'tradition' and class division is unfortunately a part of it. Boxes are a feature of most London Theatres.

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Originally posted by PamM:
no-one can make any judgement over this rendering..

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

Yes we can, we do it all of the time. Mind you we are sometimes very wrong!

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Exactly Malcolm. Besides, I don't think we are making "judgements", just speculating. None of us work for Cunard that I know of, so we can only speculate based on the limited information provided to us.

Speculating is really half the fun. The "what ifs" truly make up the majority of interesting dialog on CT. I for one am glad we don't have all the answers. It gives us something to talk about.

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

I take your point!

I'm actually against all Cunard style class divisions, on all of their vessels, but as I've already said it is their 'unique selling point'.

I do like 'history' and 'tradition' and class division is unfortunately a part of it. Boxes are a feature of most London Theatres.

Of course the more perks Grill has the more desirable it becomes.

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Interestingly enough, I don't feel any class divisions when I'm sailing on QE2 or QM2. The areas reserved for Grill Class on these vessels is rather small and discrete. Unless you went looking for them you might not even know they existed.

On QV I get the feeling the class divisions are going to be more pronounced. The Grill area is quite extensive on QV, and it's located in one of the most desirable locations on the ship. The common folk may not even have access to it (for picture taking or a look-see) if it is roped off and a special key card required for lift access those decks. This would really be reminiscent of past ocean liners. At least on QE2 and QM2 you can walk into the Grill areas and have a look around. Frankly they are not that impressive to begin with so one hardly feels they are missing out (Princess Grill on QE2 excepted). That might not be the case on QV.

Also, when you start sectioning off areas of otherwise public lounges, then you really create a class division that is glaringly apparent to the rest of the poor slobs. The "haves" and "have nots" become readily apparent, and who needs that on vacation? This is where I have an issue. I'm not going to pay big bucks to feel like a second class citizen everywhere I walk on a ship. I never felt this way on QE2 or QM2, but the verdict is still out on QV.

Also, I would rather sail on a ship where everyone is treated relatively equal. That be luxury, premium, contemporary, etc. I understand all categories of ships have suites that come with perks, but none seem so "in your face" as those that might find their way onboard QV. Again, just speculating based on what I have seen so far. In reality, something else may prove true all together.

If any of my speculation proves true, it could really backfire on Cunard. I think the Grills have been successful on QE2 and QM2 mainly because they are very discrete, and are not in the face of the other 1500-2000 passengers. If the division on QV is too visible to the majority of passengers, I think they will choose to sail on something else next time. No one wants to feel "second class" while on vacation. There are too many other choices which cost less money and where everyone is made to feel "first class".

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Originally posted by eroller:
No one wants to feel "second class" while on vacation. There are too many other choices which cost less money and where everyone is made to feel "first class".

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That's exactly why I will not sail QE2 again. I paid a relatively high fare but got second class food and service in the 'M' grade. However, it certainly has not seem to damage her booking over the years too much, has it?

Interestingly enough, I think the QM2's Brittania room is so much more attractive that the grills, that I do not feel second best.

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

By the way, I still think QV is essentially the QE2's replacement.

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I agree, and I've said it all along that I feel QE2 will be retired sooner rather than later (regardless of what the Cunard PR machine tells you). That was one reason I wanted to sail on her again, and I was lucky enough to be in Princess Grill. It was an excellent experience, but not worth the prices that Cunard demands. My comp upgrade was the only way I was going to experience it! For that kind of money, I would rather cruise on an all-inclusive luxury line like Silversea.

We have other premium lines wich are at the same level ore much better. Celebrity, Cristal, HAPAG, Holland America. And the all inclusif Silversea. Company's over equal levels and sometimes provide a better service fore a better price.

Some positive note the artist impressions looks great. I like what i have seen.

Greetings Ben.

ps. I like the idea of a Cunard museum. I wonder whene the other older lines (P&O, HAPAG, HAL, Costa) will added a museum.

[ 02-27-2006: Message edited by: Maasdam ]

I guess the view is on the second tier, so I think the railing is very much necessary to protect passengers from falling down ?

About those boxes, are they really only for Grill Class - or open to reservation (and payment...) to everyone who wishes.

I don't think Cunard would be wise to exaggerate the class element too much : nobody likes to be treated as second class on an expensive holiday, and as for Malcolm's experiences on the QE2 :
I would never go on a British liner and expect great food, perhaps this has nothing to do with class at all.

Apart from this all, I am appalled at the sketches for QV's interior : is this the 21st century....? And even then : it seems all so dark and too heavy in dark imposing colour, and too many shades mixed.

A few people on my Regatta crossing took it because their travel agent advised them against the haggard old queen QE2.

The QM2 entry level pricing is 2x what it should be for the amenities offered and cabin locations. With Conover gone, the service levels that would shame Easy Cruise should now be on a par with the Regal Empress.

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

That's exactly why I will not sail QE2 again. I paid a relatively high fare but got second class food and service in the 'M' grade. However, it certainly has not seem to damage her booking over the years too much, has it?

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Originally posted by Eroller:

The unsinkable Molly Brown is a great example of someone that apparently had little "class", but tons of money. She traveled in First Class. The same might be said of a college professor, who may exude tons of "class" and knowledge and is very well respected in the community, but doesnt have the money to travel First Class (Grill Class). The professor in this example would travel in Tourist back in the day, or "non Grill-Class" today

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Ernie, that is what I love most about the Cunard crossings. In the pre-airplane days anyone who crossed to Europe, even in tourist class was of 'professional status' just to get the minimum time off.

Gerry's topic on a class system
class system thread

[ 02-27-2006: Message edited by: desirod7 ]

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Originally posted by eroller:

Next might be special "hours" in the swimming pool for Grill Class guests only. Of course the pool will be drained and filled with fresh water before the Grill Class guests jump in.

Ernie

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Next will be a totally separate pool for Grill Class, such as NCL is already doing. On the NORWEGIAN JEWEL, for example, the Courtyard & Garden Villas already have their own exclusive pool and sun deck areas.

I think in an effort to re-create the luxury and style of the golden age of liners, Cunard is purposely creating "snob appeal" areas. This is becoming more prevalent on HAL and NCL, too.

Meanwhile, Carnival and RCI, being aimed as the masses, have the most democratic on-board products.

Rich

[ 02-27-2006: Message edited by: Linerrich ]

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Originally posted by eroller:
Next might be special "hours" in the swimming pool for Grill Class guests only. Of course the pool will be drained and filled with fresh water before the Grill Class guests jump in.

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Originally posted by Johan:
The Theater is three deck high.

I guess the view is on the second tier, so I think the railing is very much necessary to protect passengers from falling down ?

About those boxes, are they really only for Grill Class - or open to reservation (and payment...) to everyone who wishes. [...]
J

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Usually (e.g. in the Vienna state opera) I prefere to be in a box - it usually is just more convenient. (e.g. one does not have to go to a cloakroom)

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Originally posted by eroller:

On QV I get the feeling the class divisions are going to be more pronounced. The Grill area is quite extensive on QV, and it's located in one of the most desirable locations on the ship.

Also, when you start sectioning off areas of otherwise public lounges, then you really create a class division that is glaringly apparent to the rest of the poor slobs. The "haves" and "have nots" become readily apparent, and who needs that on vacation? This is where I have an issue. I'm not going to pay big bucks to feel like a second class citizen everywhere I walk on a ship. I never felt this way on QE2 or QM2, but the verdict is still out on QV.

If any of my speculation proves true, it could really backfire on Cunard. I think the Grills have been successful on QE2 and QM2 mainly because they are very discrete, and are not in the face of the other 1500-2000 passengers. If the division on QV is too visible to the majority of passengers, I think they will choose to sail on something else next time. No one wants to feel "second class" while on vacation. There are too many other choices which cost less money and where everyone is made to feel "first class".
Ernie

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