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» Cruise Talk   » Technically Speaking   » GRT no more.

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Author Topic: GRT no more.
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 01-06-2004 09:25 AM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thank goodness - at last. It always was a matter of confusion for some people with NET REGISTERED TONNAGE.
Without checking I don't think the Brits ever officially used GRT.

Copyright © Seatrade Communications Limited, 2004.



A New Year’s resolution: banish archaic ‘grt’
5/1/2004

Ten years after the term ‘gross registered tonnage’ was abandoned by the international shipping community, usage of the abbreviation ‘grt’ persists -- often in cruise line press materials, guidebooks and media reports.
The accurate and internationally accepted standard, which came into effect a decade ago on July 18, 1994, is ‘gross tonnage’ or ‘gt.’ This figure reflects a ship’s internal volume in hundreds of cubic feet of enclosed space. (One hundred cubic feet = one gross ton.) Today, gross tonnage is calculated by computer using data from line and general arrangement plans.

Tonnage is an important figure. It’s required for registry in most countries and the basis on which various port and canal dues are calculated. Cruise lines also use it to illustrate a ship’s spaciousness (passenger space ratio is expressed as a percentage based on passenger count to tonnage). The international gt convention replaced a patchwork of national tonnage regulations -- more than a dozen major methods previously existed worldwide. Adopting a universal measurement eliminated inconsistencies and means that a ship retains the same gt throughout its lifetime, irrespective of flag. (Unless there is a major structural alteration.)

Usage of the ‘registered’ in grt was officially cast aside on July 18, 1994, the date designated by the IMO’s International Convention on Tonnage Measurements of Ships, 1969. Now that it’s 2004, wouldn’t it be something for cruise lines and journalists to resolve to banish references to grt in favour of the correct term, gt?


Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
ScottQE2
First Class Passenger
Member # 4180

posted 01-06-2004 12:07 PM      Profile for ScottQE2   Author's Homepage   Email ScottQE2   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks, gohaze, I didn't realise they changed it. I'll make the change!

Scott


Posts: 165 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
sslewis
First Class Passenger
Member # 3649

posted 01-06-2004 05:42 PM      Profile for sslewis   Author's Homepage   Email sslewis   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Some ships were more affected than others by the 1994 tonnage rule.
Canberra 44,807 grt jumped to 49,073 gt!
It would be interesting to recalculate the tonnage of cruise ships built after 1994.
QM2 150,000 gt is more like 148,000 grt then?
ssLewis, enlighted

Posts: 2513 | From: Shipspotting Solent shores when weather allows.... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
rd77
First Class Passenger
Member # 2117

posted 01-07-2004 02:37 AM      Profile for rd77   Email rd77   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Louy,

QM2 is 148,152 gt according to Equasis. BTW thanks for the info about Canberra! Will change it in my own database


Posts: 1037 | From: The Hague, Netherlands | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Brian_O
First Class Passenger
Member # 3910

posted 01-07-2004 06:00 PM      Profile for Brian_O     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'd be interested to see what Oceanic's GT is. When she was owned by Home Lines all the techical sources listed her as 27,644 grt, yet the Home Lines' brochures, postcards, passenger lists, etc. listed her as 39,242 grt, hardly an insignificant difference.

Brian


Posts: 2698 | From: Pointe-Claire, QC Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 01-07-2004 06:18 PM      Profile for cruiseny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
OCEANIC is officially listed at 38,772 GT. (Had to really concentrate to not put the "R" in there !)
Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 01-07-2004 07:41 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
AMOI.....I went and dug out two old British "Instructions to Surveyors" for the Measurement of Ships. One dated 1911 and the other 1956, and in neither is Gross REGISTERED Tonnage mentioned. It's GROSS TONNAGE.

In fact I can only recall seeing it in cruise line advertising which has unfortunately been picked up by the public and media.

Can anyone come up with a Certificate of Registry or Tonnage Certificate with GRT on it?

...peter


Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
Brian_O
First Class Passenger
Member # 3910

posted 01-08-2004 12:19 AM      Profile for Brian_O     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Technical Question: Does GT include ALL permanently enclosed space? I hope so. If not, why even bother using the term "Gross"?

One of the things that often made comparisons of GRT an exercise in futility was the "excluded space" which varied from one flag of registry to another. I believe that US regulations even allowed the optional inclusion or exclusion of the entire superstructure leading to such anomallies as the quoted tonnage of the SS United States being reduced from approx. 53,000 grt to approx 39,000 grt overnight without a single physical modification being made.

[ 01-08-2004: Message edited by: Brian_O ]


Posts: 2698 | From: Pointe-Claire, QC Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 01-08-2004 04:12 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Brian...I notice you are using GRT have you got any basis for that?

It used to be called "exemptions" and they consisted of spaces like the Wheelhouse, Crew Galley and washrooms which were above the tonnage deck - usually the Maindeck. There were no exemptions below that deck. The Chartroom however was a "Deduction' from GT to Net Tonnage.

I see they are now called "Exclusions' and are only spaces into the hull open to the sea such as thruster tubes or inlets if they are more than a cubic metre in size. Apparently all enclosed spaces are now included in the Gross.

As for the BIG U was not that tonnage change made after she was gutted out when the asbestos was removed in Turkey?

....peter


Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
sslewis
First Class Passenger
Member # 3649

posted 01-08-2004 09:04 PM      Profile for sslewis   Author's Homepage   Email sslewis   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Brian,
ssOceanic benefited from the Panama tonnage exemption.
Canberra was the same size roughly.
The Panama flag must use only net tonnage.
Those figures used to be in Lloyd's Register of Shipping and Bureau Veritas.
Even elementary displacement figure is omitted for new measures like UMS!
ssLewis, influenced by Navy

Posts: 2513 | From: Shipspotting Solent shores when weather allows.... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Brian_O
First Class Passenger
Member # 3910

posted 01-09-2004 01:52 AM      Profile for Brian_O     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by gohaze:

As for the BIG U was not that tonnage change made after she was gutted out when the asbestos was removed in Turkey?

....peter


No. The big reduction in the GRT figure for Big U came before she was laid up in 1969. I first saw the reduced figure in the early-mid 70's in Lloyd's Register, long before one Mr. Hadley came into the picture and started the rape and other abuse of this once fine ship. Elsewhere, Kludas Vol 5 (English edition 1977) lists TWO big reductions: the first in 1962 to 44,893 and the 2nd in 1967 to 38,216.

I am not sure what you are asking with your GRT question.

Brian

[ 01-09-2004: Message edited by: Brian_O ]


Posts: 2698 | From: Pointe-Claire, QC Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 01-09-2004 03:49 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Brian...I asked because in one para you used GT and in the next GRT.

I have never seen GRT used officially and thought you may have.

One thing I found out now I don't think I ever realised before but NRT stands for Net OR Registered Tonnage but you cannot do that with the Gross Tonnage.

....peter


Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
Brian_O
First Class Passenger
Member # 3910

posted 01-09-2004 06:59 PM      Profile for Brian_O     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by gohaze:
Brian...I asked because in one para you used GT and in the next GRT.


Ok. In the first paragraph I was asking was asking about the "new" international standard for measurement, so I used GT.

In the second paragraph I was moaning about the inconsistent way tonnages have been reported and used GRT because that is the way most sources have quoted it historically.

I sure hope it is the measurement that has been standardised and not just the nomenclature.

Brian


Posts: 2698 | From: Pointe-Claire, QC Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
sslewis
First Class Passenger
Member # 3649

posted 01-15-2004 12:40 PM      Profile for sslewis   Author's Homepage   Email sslewis   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
May I stress a point.
Shiplovers love comparing things, but forget that tonnage is no longer a reliable source since 1994!
It now would require several convertions, from UMS to GRT, GT then adjusting Panama, Bahamas and Liberia rules...my brain fries!
Let's just keep to the basic, functional Archimedes rules : loaded and light displacement. Simple
Well, still have to convert metric tons to tons!
So QM2 displacement is 79 461 metric tonnes ok?
Should you divide by 1.016 or multiply (80 732tons)?
Next in size are all Panamax cruise ships, Destiny, Grand Princess and Eagle class...
ssLewis, for whom weight, not size, matters...

Posts: 2513 | From: Shipspotting Solent shores when weather allows.... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
gohaze
First Class Passenger
Member # 586

posted 01-15-2004 10:38 PM      Profile for gohaze   Email gohaze   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Came across this illustration of one of the many uses of NET or REGISTERED TONNAGE.
Remember NET is GROSS TONNAGE minus certain spaces/allowances, and is to a certain extent at the request of the Owner or Builder.

Copyright © Seatrade Communications Limited, 2004.



Costa to benefit from new Italian tonnage tax
15/1/2004

Costa Crociere is to save millions of Euros in taxes under a new tonnage system introduced by the Italian government this month. Until the 2003 fiscal year, Italian flagged ships registered under the so called 'international register' paid 7.4% tax on income.
As of January 2004, owners who opt for the new regime will pay only a 6.6% tax rate on a total sum achieved by multiplying the number of operational days for each ship by a fee related to net tonnage and age.

Costa has its entire fleet under Italian flag and it is expected to benefit greatly. In 2002 fiscal year Costa paid more than €43m in taxes. The savings achieved under the new regime could influence Costa’s decision on a possible new order with Fincantieri for a third ship in the Costa Fortuna class. As previously reported by Seatrade Insider, according to trade union sources in Genoa, Costa and Fincantieri already have a 'handshake' deal.

To a lesser extent, the new tonnage tax would benefit Festival too as three of its ships – European Vision, European Stars and Caribe - are registered in Italy.


Posts: 1909 | From: Vancouver.BC | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged

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