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» Cruise Talk   » Technically Speaking   » uNITED sTATES cRUISES (Page 1)

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Author Topic: uNITED sTATES cRUISES
JOE
First Class Passenger
Member # 3708

posted 04-05-2003 07:27 PM      Profile for JOE        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i WAS INTERESTED IN rICHARD H. Hadleys plan for the SS United States. What was he going to add to her. Where was he going to put the new stuff?
Posts: 484 | From: Patterson, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Barryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 33

posted 04-06-2003 04:51 PM      Profile for Barryboat   Author's Homepage   Email Barryboat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hadley was going to refurbish the Big U into a floating time-share vessel cruising between California and Hawaii. His first plan was to simply clean her up, add four large tenders, paint her white with a big eagle on her bow, and add an outdoor pool. Then he started to get elaborate and decided to do a more extensive refit with a huge two story deck (like the SS NORWAY). He didn't quite get the response he anticipated for his timeshare idea, and I think he just lost interest in the project and decided to build an airport instead. I cooresponded with the people who were hired to redesign the ship. I even accompanied these desiners onboard the ship while it was docked in New Port News in 1979...at that time the ship still had all her original fittings and we explored everywhere....from the engine room to the carpenter shop in the bow. In fact I was among the first civilian to photograph the engine room.
Posts: 1851 | From: Bloomington, Minnesota (Home to the Mall of America) | Registered: Mar 99  |  IP: Logged
sslewis
First Class Passenger
Member # 3649

posted 04-07-2003 09:12 AM      Profile for sslewis   Author's Homepage   Email sslewis   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Your photos of Big U in the Floating dock were very interesting for me.
I wondered how big was her bulbous bow, and how ther bilge turn was.
She had the biggest rise of floor (94cm), and must have had lots of support undereath the bilge.
Contrarily to belief, she is not flat in the bottom, and could be a nightmare if aground!
The bilge keels were of interest, their shape and position never revealed before.
Hope someone will make a nice working model of her. Zooming at dusk, fully lit and funnels smoking will be the closest thing to see her at sea again.

Posts: 2513 | From: Shipspotting Solent shores when weather allows.... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
JOE
First Class Passenger
Member # 3708

posted 04-08-2003 08:44 PM      Profile for JOE        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What was hadley going to install on the new deck, and where was he going to put those new 5 gourmet restaraunts? What were they going to serve?
Posts: 484 | From: Patterson, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
JOE
First Class Passenger
Member # 3708

posted 04-08-2003 08:46 PM      Profile for JOE        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Who were the people who were going to redesign the ship? Are they still in business? Do they have copies of the blueprints?
Posts: 484 | From: Patterson, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Barryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 33

posted 04-08-2003 09:20 PM      Profile for Barryboat   Author's Homepage   Email Barryboat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
JOE,

Here's a copy of the Hadley Blueprints - profile view. I also have every deck of her original layout...the plans are about 5 feet long each. Where did you hear about 5 gourmet restaurants?

The TOP image is Hadley's design, the bottom one is my design. Hadley's design is very much like what was done to the SS NORWAY...except a little more extreme.

sswlewis, Did you know that the bilge keel was filled with balsa "wood"? Yes the Bilge keels and the pianos where all that was made of wood onboard the Big U....however when I visited the ship in 1986 I found a "wood" oven scrapper and bought it....the guy onboard looked at me like..."why would you want to buy that"? He didn't realize the significance of discovering more "wood" onboard. Gibbs would have been very upset to know someone brought onboard a "wooden" scrapper.


Posts: 1851 | From: Bloomington, Minnesota (Home to the Mall of America) | Registered: Mar 99  |  IP: Logged
Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 04-08-2003 09:24 PM      Profile for Waynaro   Email Waynaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Barryboat, I thought Cruiseny designed the bottom one?
Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 04-08-2003 09:28 PM      Profile for cruiseny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Keitaro:
Barryboat, I thought Cruiseny designed the bottom one?

Huh? I didn't design anything .

I think Hadley added one or two decks too many. At the very least, the "extra" deck that's just over the bridge makes her too top-heavy.


Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
JOE
First Class Passenger
Member # 3708

posted 04-08-2003 09:31 PM      Profile for JOE        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Barryboat, can you scan the blueprints and put them online. They can be clickable and poened in a seperate window, just like the Queen Mary 2 ones.
Posts: 484 | From: Patterson, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 04-08-2003 09:34 PM      Profile for Waynaro   Email Waynaro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oops......sorry Barryboat, my mistake. I have no idea what I was reading from the other post that you showed this picture. Sorry.
Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Barryboat
First Class Passenger
Member # 33

posted 04-08-2003 09:39 PM      Profile for Barryboat   Author's Homepage   Email Barryboat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
JOE the BigU blueprints are way too huge to scan. I'd have to shrink the original down...even then I'd have to scan about 10 times just to get ONE DECK to fit. Too much work sorry.
Posts: 1851 | From: Bloomington, Minnesota (Home to the Mall of America) | Registered: Mar 99  |  IP: Logged
JOE
First Class Passenger
Member # 3708

posted 04-09-2003 05:11 PM      Profile for JOE        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Danm it.
Posts: 484 | From: Patterson, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 04-09-2003 06:57 PM      Profile for joe at travelpage   Author's Homepage   Email joe at travelpage   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here are two links to profile images.

One from 1952 - here.

The other from 1982 -here.. This must be Hadley's plan

Joe at TravelPage.com


Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
JOE
First Class Passenger
Member # 3708

posted 04-11-2003 10:59 AM      Profile for JOE        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Looks a little good
Posts: 484 | From: Patterson, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
sslewis
First Class Passenger
Member # 3649

posted 04-15-2003 11:47 AM      Profile for sslewis   Author's Homepage   Email sslewis   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Barryboat,
Just catching up after a break due to intense heat on uk Southern Shores.
Well, hope Colin has seen and approved your designs.
Remember to send a copy to Louis cruises, FAO Staff captain onboard the ssEmerald, Gibbs only operating liner!
May she deliver full blast on 04th of July, wherever she is.
Thanks for the Balsa filled Bilge keel info.
Will they need strenghening for the rebuild?
ssLewis,
anticipating duel at sea...QM2 vs mvUS !

Posts: 2513 | From: Shipspotting Solent shores when weather allows.... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
JOE
First Class Passenger
Member # 3708

posted 04-16-2003 11:01 AM      Profile for JOE        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not letting you send that design. It ruins the ship. Onno Hesbeens design is better and I credited him for it. He says I can use it since i credited him for it.
Posts: 484 | From: Patterson, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 04-16-2003 11:12 AM      Profile for cruiseny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by JOE:
I'm not letting you send that design.

Who aren't you letting send what ?


Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
JOE
First Class Passenger
Member # 3708

posted 04-17-2003 10:49 AM      Profile for JOE        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
SS Lewis
Posts: 484 | From: Patterson, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
JOE
First Class Passenger
Member # 3708

posted 04-17-2003 10:50 AM      Profile for JOE        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No wait, It's not SS Lewis, but Barryboat. His design destroys the ships beauty and ballance. Plus it would cost to much
Posts: 484 | From: Patterson, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 04-17-2003 12:00 PM      Profile for cruiseny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by JOE:
No wait, It's not SS Lewis, but Barryboat. His design destroys the ships beauty and ballance.

I don't like the design either, but you can hardly stop him sending it to NCL if he wants to! Well, unless you work for the postal service ... ("When you control the mail... You control in-for-ma-tion!")

Oh, wait, I'm using this new thing now... The Internet... Oops, I guess you'd have to work for the postal service, and be a super computer hacker!

And have spies at NCL's offices to sabotage him if he tries to deliver it personally .

So, I don't think you'll stop him!

quote:
Plus it would cost to much

Something tells me NCL is not going to go the low-budget route on this one...


Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
JOE
First Class Passenger
Member # 3708

posted 04-24-2003 09:31 AM      Profile for JOE        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Barryboat aint lucky. I sent my ideas via the email address they out up. I might make it. Hehehehe
Posts: 484 | From: Patterson, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
JOE
First Class Passenger
Member # 3708

posted 04-24-2003 09:41 AM      Profile for JOE        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here is my eTo Colin Veitch, Norwegian Cruise Line

I have just heard that you have purchased the SS United States and SS Independence for you Hawaiian cruise operation. Here are my ideas on how you can restore the Big U.


Give the SS United States New Environ Engines: Since the Big U has an oil based powered plant, it would be necessary to upgrade the engines so the ship would pass the 2010 SOLAS Code, which states that all ships must not have combustible materials onboard a ship. The new diesel engines will replace the steam turbines. The amount of engines will possibly increase speed.


Add a Lido Pool, Tenders, and Extended Promenade: A man named Onno Heesbeen designed an example of the SS United States Refit. He should be credited for the design. Here is the picture. Onno plans on extending the promenade around the former 1st class theater and adding a new Lido Pool with a 24-hour restaurant. Also, the Upper Deck has been extended under the pool to allow room. This could be a perfect area to install alternative Freestyle restaurants. However, the 1980s refit plan had a proposal for 5 alternative restaurants. However, I don’t know where the restaurants will be. When I purchase the plans, I’ll find the location. Then you could place them there. The above drawing shows the addition of QE2 Style Windscreens. They will be placed at the end of the Upper Deck and Sun Deck. Six tenders have replaced the three aft lifeboats on each side. They will be used to get into ports that can’t handle the Big U.


Addition of an Upper Deck: There is space behind the bridge that can be used for balcony cabin space. I counted 38 cabins on the deck on the design that Onno made. I was planning on extending the cabins back toward the wind screen for a total for 42 cabins on one side. There will be a grand total of 84 balcony suites. If there is an additional deck added, there will be an ultimate total of 168 cabins. However, this might make the ship top-heavy.


The Addition of Freestyle Restaurants-In order for the Big U to compete with the modern cruise ships, addition of 5 freestyle restaurants would be necessary. I thought up of putting in 5 freestyle restaurants because when Richard H. Hadley was going to refurbish the ship, he planned to add 5 alternative restaurants. Here they are, Le Bistro (NCL’s signature French Restaurant), Bamboo-Taste of Asia (Asian Fusion Restaurant with Sake Bar and Tepenyaki Room), Cagneys Steakhouse (Perfect for the Big U), Los Ramblas Tapas Bar (Tapas Restaurant), and a new restaurant for NCL, Kona Grill(Hawaiian and California Cuisine with a pick your own lobster tank).

Congratulations,

JOE

It's good. I can't get the drawing of onnos ship on it. aLSO, I had my real name on it so i put JOE on it. I credited Onno for the ship design. When I sent the email, I should have put that Onno is a great architect and should be noticed. I should have be the same.

mail, hope you love it.


Posts: 484 | From: Patterson, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rex
First Class Passenger
Member # 1113

posted 04-24-2003 11:50 AM      Profile for Rex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Barryboat...

I am actually keen on your design. In order for the BIG U to compete, she'll need an entirely new superstructure. She'll never make money otherwise. Classicists and moan and bitch, but the cruise industry is about los dineros, entiende?

I know we haven't seen eye to eye in the past, but it's all past, and I think you have a unique talent as a ship designer. Good luck, dude.


Posts: 1413 | From: Philadelphia PA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Commodore
First Class Passenger
Member # 1575

posted 04-24-2003 12:22 PM      Profile for Commodore     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rex you do have a very good point. Her profile is not ruined by Barryboat's design, it actually looks almost nearly as good as she has in the past. It also looks like it would make her have more space. And for the people moaning about "the hull" well isn't the hull as much a part of the ship as the superstructure. While I would rather see her have close to original with the same superstructure it probobly won't happen, so making the ship look a little modern will give her an edge, and will help fill her up with "non-enthusists".
Posts: 1106 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Britanis
First Class Passenger
Member # 2912

posted 04-24-2003 01:31 PM      Profile for Britanis   Email Britanis   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rather than preserve the exact appearance of the original superstructure, I would think the best we can hope for is that the general character of the original is preserved. Whatever design team is appointed to handle the project should consult with focus groups to determine what parts or elements of her superstructure are most important in identifying the ship as SSUS. They should then attempt to preserve just those essential elements, or incorporate them into an all-new structure.

I would say the curved, almost vertical look of the forward superstructure, the long foredeck, the twin funnels, the terraced aft structure, and the prom. deck windows are the keys to keeping her Big U.

A superstructure that is terraced at the aft part, and rounded forward would certainly play up the liner image, without exactly replicating the old structure. The general design of the old prom. windows could be incorporated in a band along the sides of the new structure, and the original funnels, or exact replicas, could be re-installed on top of the new structure. The design team sould take inspiration from the Disney ships, QM2, and Norway, as they are excellent examples of how liner-like qualities can be incorporated into a sucessful, modern ship.

Barryboat's design is a great concept, as it does resemble the Disney ships. Though I would prefer a less built-up forward superstructure, NCL could do a LOT worse than Barryboat's design. It does more or less preserve her distinguishing characteristics, while allowing her to compete against modern mega-ships. The goal should be to have someone who hasn't seen the ship since 1955 be able to look at her after rebuilding and say "Hey, that's the SS United States!" Barry's design proves that it can be done while modernizing her at the same time.


Posts: 944 | From: Philadelphia, USA- former home of International Merchantile and Marine Co. | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged

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